Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 65

Thread: Rachael Flatt: Complete Profile

  1. #31
    I like pie. Tonichelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Kenai, AK
    Posts
    18,728
    I don't think Sarah had the desire to continue after winning the Olympics. She definitely wasn't ready the following season and when she did tour with SOI for a season, the reviews were not good. Again, not saying that she wasn't capable, but her heart no longer seemed with skating after winning the Olympics. She was ready to drop skating and put her efforts into college. She certainly shouldn't be expected to give up college for skating and vice versa.
    Considering Robin Wagner's interview after Sarah left skating for school, I think the only reason Sarah stuck it out after the Olympics was to make her coach happy.

  2. #32
    Gotta Have Music iluvtodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    10,782
    Seeing Rachel skate to "East of Eden" @ 2011 US Nationals and "Firebird" @ this year's nationals live were among the highlights for me. I loved her reaction right after she skated to "Firtebird", and she was adorable in the K&C, with her Stanford goodies.

  3. #33
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    3,234
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Still, the tech panel was pretty strict with Mirai. They also gave her an edge warning on her first Lutz (IMHO no worse a flutz than anyone else's -- only three judges gave negative GOE), and a downgrade on her first combo (two judges gave negative GOE). Mirai has a quick little hook on her jump landings which does a good job of hiding under-rotations. To me, watching in real time, only the solo triple toe at the end was clearly and visibly short.
    1) Mirai had a history of under-rotations coming into Nationals, so the tech panel would be "conditioned" to look for it as a matter of course (this is why Mao's pursuit of the 3A is foolish - tech panels expect that it will be UR and so will scrutinize it)
    2) judges and tech panel will look for the quick little hook (which is an UR) because they are trained to do so and will mark accordingly - this technique only hides UR for the non-trained (unless you can bury your iffy element where the camera can't really see your feet)

    As for Rachel, she really has been very strong and she's mentally as tough as they come.

  4. #34
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    376
    Not sure what the commentators are saying, but at the end of a very long season for Flatt, 2009 WTT LP! IIRC, Flatt had just gone back to this program for Worlds in March after skating to Debussy most of the season.
    http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjg1NjI3ODM2.html
    and her SP also from WTT
    http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjg1NjI3NDI4.html

    Flatt's passion and joy for skating shows through. Such genuine happiness in her skating!
    Last edited by Nigel; 05-09-2012 at 03:32 PM. Reason: added additional link

  5. #35
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    430
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Mirai out-perkied Rachael (no mean feat!) and the audience loved Mirai's performance. But in the CoP, you live by the UR, you die by the UR. Mirai received two phantom URs and that was the ballgame.



    I think at the Olympics Rachael was the victim of skate order. In the long program she skated first. The tech panel could not give her high marks because Kim and Asada were yet to skate. It was possible that both of them might have messed up, and then where would we be? So this time it was Rachael's turn for the phantom URs. For the first one, only one of the nine judges gave her negative GOE. Evidently 8 of the 9 did not see anything wrong with the rotation. The second one was more in question. Three judges gave her negative GOE and 6 thought the jump was OK.

    As it turned out, the worry was needless. Kim and Asada both put up scores that set the contest out of reach, and so did Rochette for third. So by the time Mirai skated (last) there was no reason to find something to downgrade because the contest was over anyway. Mirai 4th, Rachael 7th.
    Isn't this exactly the sort of thing the COP was supposed to eliminate? Wasn't it supposed to give everybody a cut and dried score, no matter what the skating order was? Instead, it's "now we have more nit-picky things to get the non-favorites on that we can ignore with the people we want to win."

    I agree 100% with your assessment. If Mirai was skating before Joannie, her score would have been at least 10 points lower, with all sorts of deductions for invisible flutzes and ur's.

    I thought Rachael out skated Mirai in the 2010 Nationals, and did bigger and harder jumps. Scott roots too hard for his personal faves, which is why he really gets on my last nerve sometimes.

  6. #36
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    3,962
    Quote Originally Posted by Poodlepal View Post
    Isn't this exactly the sort of thing the COP was supposed to eliminate? Wasn't it supposed to give everybody a cut and dried score, no matter what the skating order was? Instead, it's "now we have more nit-picky things to get the non-favorites on that we can ignore with the people we want to win."
    Well, this is Mathman's theory. Whether it's true or not is another question.

    When it comes to the psychological effects of skate order (as opposed to the intentional cheating that he implies), all we can do is speculate, and all the rulemakers and officials can do is try to counteract natural human tendencies as far as possible.

    But if you want to believe that there was a conspiracy to produce certain results, on the part of the technical panel in this instance . . . well, it makes a nice dramatic story, but can you prove it?

  7. #37
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,825
    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    ...well, it makes a nice dramatic story, but can you prove it?
    Strangely, no, I can't. All the evidence has been erased. That is, I can't find videos of either Rachael's or Mirai's Olympic long program on Youtube. (If that's not sinister, I don't know what is! )

    The thesis is, (a) Rachael' Olympic LP was scored more stringently than Mirai's, and (b) the reason for this is related to skate order and to the technical panelists' overall expectations of the shape of the contest.

    It is hard to get evidence one way or the other about (b), but it should be a piece of cake to decide, from video evidence, whether (a) is true or not.

    Temporarily lacking such video evidence, what else can we say? Mskater93 points out that Mirai habitually under-rotated the majority of her jumps that whole season. Even I (an inattentive and inexpert observer) couldn't help noticing Miria's habitual "quick little hook" as standard operating procedure on most of her jump landings -- although I didn't realize at the time that this is tell-tail evidence of under-rotation. Mirai was charged with five URs in her LP at Cup of China, two in her LP at Skate Canada, and three in her LP at U.S. Nationals. To echo mskater93, given this history the judges and tech specialists would naturally be prepared to give close scrutiny to Mirai's landings.

    Meanwhile, Rachael received exactly zero URs for the season prior to the OLympics. Zero at Cup of China, zero at Skate America, zero at U.S. nationals. She did nine triple flips, LP and SP combined, in major competition, noe of them downgraded by either international or national panels. Yet at the Olympics, suddenly Rachael (skaing first when everything was uncertain) became Mirai, while Mirai (skating last after everything had been decided) became -- to the tech panel -- Rachael.

    Well, maybe so. Each contest is judged on its own merits. Flattfan (possibly with some bias on brhalf of his favorite) says he/she can't see any under-rotation in Rachael's two flips, even in slow motion. If someone can find a video maybe we could judge for ourselves.
    Last edited by Mathman; 05-09-2012 at 08:46 PM.

  8. #38
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    5,609
    I can, but they're geoblocked for Americans.

  9. #39
    Custom Title macy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    558

  10. #40
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,608
    Well you have great taste in skaters heyang, what was the Hartford show like? I cannot imagine I could have watched Katia without total breakdown, she looked so frail.

  11. #41
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,825
    Quote Originally Posted by macy View Post
    Thank you, Macy!

    Well, I do not have the eye of a trained specialist, but I invite people who do to compare the first jump of Rachael's 3F combination (her second jumping pass, at about 1:20), with Mirai's triple Flip (third jumping pass, at about 2:00). Rachael's was downgraded, Mirai's was not.

  12. #42
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hollywood, CA
    Posts
    4,151
    The Flips were definitely fine, it's her Lutzes that were suspect. That 3Toe in combination too, as usual, since she pre-rotates it too much.

    Anyway, she deserved 5th place.

  13. #43
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,361
    Quote Originally Posted by Nigel View Post
    Not sure what the commentators are saying, but at the end of a very long season for Flatt, 2009 WTT LP! IIRC, Flatt had just gone back to this program for Worlds in March after skating to Debussy most of the season.
    http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjg1NjI3ODM2.html
    and her SP also from WTT
    http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjg1NjI3NDI4.html

    Flatt's passion and joy for skating shows through. Such genuine happiness in her skating!
    Rachael looked so much prettier with long hair. She was also thinner in these videos than she has the past few seasons. I wish Rachael had just continued on the path she was on back in 2009 and hadn't tried to change her look and her style.

  14. #44
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    376

  15. #45
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,569
    I found Rachael to be a steady and hard-working skater who simply lacked the appeal of some of her competitors. Up until these last two years, I always called her "Old Faithful" simply because no matter what you could rely on her to turn in two solid performances. That was her main selling point in my book, especially when we were inundated sometimed skaters who may or may not rise to the occasion on any given night. It was nice to know that there was a reliable, albeit less exciting, skater who was capable of keeping the US in the top 5.

    Do I prefer Rachael's skating over Mirai's, Ashley's or Alissa's? No, but that's simply a matter of preference. I never got into her skating; I guess it goes back to that need-to-experience-her-live thing everyone's talking about. I could always sense that Rachael was giving it her all but for some reason her excitement and enthusiasm never reached beyond the boards for me. I could see her giving the energy but I never felt it...but that's not really her fault. That's more about me not connecting with her as a performer.

    Rachael accomplished a lot in her career so far and if she plans to retire, then I wish her the best. She has several national medals including the title, as well as both world and Olympic appearances that she can look back on with pride. She helped to carry the sport for the US for about two and half years and she should be proud of that as well. Given the amount of talent coming up, I don't really see Rachael remaining in the running for a medal unless her skating experiences a major overhaul...granted, that same comment goes for Mirai, Alissa, and a number of the other US ladies. However, if Rachael continues to skate just for the love of skating, then I wish her the best as well.

    Rachael wasn't a stand-out technician or artist and she didn't win a bunch of titles...but what she did have was focus and a competitive spirit which carried her a lot farther than most were able to go. I don't compare people to Michelle Kwan a lot (b/c there is no comparison in my mind) but the focus, mental strength and competitiveness Rachael had for a long stretch in her career is comparable to that superhuman focus/toughness/competitiveness Michelle had. To be able to deliver time after time, consistently, is a very rare thing...that's what Rachael had and it's something a number of skaters would sell their left skate to possess. That's what I liked most about her and that's what earned her respect in my book...

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •