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Thread: Figuring out the GP slots (Ladies)

  1. #31
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    The Japan Open is an INVITATION ONLY event. It is an ISU-sanctioned 'cheesefest': no ISU Ranking points are awarded and it isn't part of the "competitive season".

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    In the case of NHK trophy of last year, since Asada singled the axel and Leonova went clean in the SP, they "decided" to push up Suzuki as high as possible. If it was not in Japan, surely there's no such thing. And if they wanted to let Asada win, the 8 points difference is too much to catch up. Their priority was pretty obvious.
    JSF has never pushed up Suzuki, and never will. She was even demoted from S-rank to A-rank last year, and JSF was practically pressuring her to retire. They then promoted her and Imai to S-rank after each of them got two slots in GPS. They had no choice but to promote Suzuki if they wanted to do the same to Imai.

    The judges at NHK could have let Asada win using PCS as a place holder if they wanted because Suzuki didn't skate a clean FS, and I was really surprised that they didn't.
    Last edited by mikeko666; 05-12-2012 at 04:13 AM.

  3. #33
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    What does an S-rank and A-rank mean?

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by brightphoton View Post
    What does an S-rank and A-rank mean?
    S(special)-rank is the highest rank of JSF Special Trainees, A-rank is the second highest, B-rank is the third.

    Last year, Ando, Asada, Murakami, Kozuka, Takahashi, Oda, and Hanyu were selected as S-rank trainees while Suzuki and Imai were as A. Note that Hanyu didn't make it to the Worlds last year just like Suzuki didn't. Then Suzuki and Imai were promoted to S after they were assigned to two GPS events each. Ando remained in S even after she decided to skip the entire season although I don't if she still received the full funding as an S-rank trainee.

    This year, Ando, Asada, Murakami Suzuki, Takahashi, Kozuka, Hanyu, and Oda were selected as S. Note that Oda skipped most of the last season due to a knee injury but still remained in S this year. Suzuki made it to GPF in 2010-2011, but was demoted to A last year.
    Last edited by mikeko666; 05-12-2012 at 05:21 AM.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeko666 View Post
    JSF has never pushed up Suzuki, and never will.
    Akiko was in Japan's squad B, C or even D for her entire career until the 2009-2010 season when she finally medaled at J-nationals at the age of 24 and got a ticket to the Olympics, ended up on 8th place, and the Worlds, ended up 11th. Next season again she didn't make a J-team and ended up on the 4th position at J-nationals. This season was her second season when she could podium at J-nationals at the age of 26 and got a ticket to the Worlds. I don't see where JSF discriminated her. She will be almost 29 in Sochi and she is not Plushenko. I some how understand why JSF is more interested in promoting Murakami who could podium at J-nationals at the age of 16 first time, 8 years eariler than Akiko could do the same.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeko666 View Post
    JSF has never pushed up Suzuki, and never will. She was even demoted from S-rank to A-rank last year, and JSF was practically pressuring her to retire. They then promoted her and Imai to S-rank after each of them got two slots in GPS. They had no choice but to promote Suzuki if they wanted to do the same to Imai.

    The judges at NHK could have let Asada win using PCS as a place holder if they wanted because Suzuki didn't skate a clean FS, and I was really surprised that they didn't.
    They just want a Japanese skater to win NHK trophy and medal at worlds. I don't think Suzuki has gained much respect from the JSF even with the world bronze medal. If it was not in Japan, Asada would've won from two reasons. (1) Suzuki wouldn't be held up so high in the SP, (2) Asada would've been given more PCS advantages. That's partly due to Suzuki's "too high" PCS in the SP.

  7. #37
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    So the JSF is basically treating Suzuki the way the RFSF treated Maria Butyrskaya. They didn't push for Maria much even after she won Worlds.

    Yikes!

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    Akiko was in Japan's squad B, C or even D for her entire career until the 2009-2010 season when she finally medaled at J-nationals at the age of 24 and got a ticket to the Olympics, ended up on 8th place, and the Worlds, ended up 11th. Next season again she didn't make a J-team and ended up on the 4th position at J-nationals. This season was her second season when she could podium at J-nationals at the age of 26 and got a ticket to the Worlds. I don't see where JSF discriminated her. She will be almost 29 in Sochi and she is not Plushenko. I some how understand why JSF is more interested in promoting Murakami who could podium at J-nationals at the age of 16 first time, 8 years eariler than Akiko could do the same.
    Puberty uncovered all of Murakami's technical problems this season from her skating skills (so rough and energy inefficient that she runs out of gas in the second half of FS) to jumping techniques (mull kick, flutz, inconsistent 3Lo). She won't be able to fix those problems unless she leaves Machiko Yamada.

    Suzuki and Nagakubo expect nothing from JSF anyway. They pushed up Murakami very hard at 2010 GPF to get her on the podium while Suzuki were given surprisingly low scores. That's the same organization that sent Ando instead of Nakano to Turin Olympics, and were LOLed by the whole world.

    Many female skaters peak before they reach twenty. Asada is almost 22, not so young anymore. One of the reasons that Suzuki is still technically improving at age of 27 is that she has very solid basics. The other side of the same coin is Asada, who is declining because she neglected the basics when she was a teenager. I feel sorry for Nobuo Sato. No wonder no one wanted his job when Asada was looking for a new coach two years ago. While he wants her to learn correct jumping techniques, she wants to jump like when she was 15, obsessed with 3A and 3F+3Lo. She will never get her 3A back, and 3F+3Lo is not practical in competitions. I have never heard she is working on 3F+3T, not even 3T+3T, and she was not consistent with 2A+3T this season.
    Last edited by mikeko666; 05-13-2012 at 05:06 AM.

  9. #39
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    All of these politiks-posts here are awkward to read, really... I'm not saying there isn't any of that in figure skating, but sometimes, this discussions reach some pretty bad level.
    Suzuki was always given way to low PCS. Agreed. But if those PCS were all JSF influence, then how come Kozuka - who definitly had the JSF support - never got those high PCS Takahashi gets? Hanyu was 'held down' PCS wise at nationals, and received way higher PCS at worlds. Although Kozuka was the JSF-favored one.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeko666
    I feel sorry for Nobuo Sato. No wonder no one wanted his job when Asada was looking for a new coach two years ago. While he wants her to learn correct jumping techniques, she wants to jump like when she was 15, obsessed with 3A and 3F+3Lo. She will never get her 3A back, and 3F+3Lo is not practical in competitions. I have never heard she is working on 3F+3T, not even 3T+3T, and she was not consistent with 2A+3T this season.
    It's always suprising what people think they know about a sakter. Asada 'wants to jump like when she was 15'? And here I was thinking her goal was Sochi.
    It's not as if Asada couldn't decide on her own what she wanted to do or not, she doesn't own anyone to do anything - and just because generally 3-3T combos are better to do doesn't mean it can't be different for her. I'm not too sure she'll get the 3A again, but who am I to tell her - who is the one doing the work - what she should do or not? For worlds she did 8-triples FS practices, and if she would manage that, she would be pretty unbeatable (except for someone else coming up with a 3A). In regards to Sochi, trying that out now was not the worst thing she could have done. Besides that, with the japanese media being all over the 3A pretty much everytime she gives an interview, it's not that hard to understand it's such a main thing for her...

    Anyway, regarding the GP slots: Suzuki for NHK is pretty much a sure thing. I think both Asada and Murakami would like to be there too, and since and don't think much of all of this JSF politcs talk I don't see a problem with Asada being there too. She probably wants to skate in Japan, and her name is a better ticket seller than Suzukis or Murakamis.
    Kostner would be my pick for TEB again, Leonova gets COR. Since I don't have too much logical explanations for my predictions, better make it short...
    SA: Leonova, Wagner (think she's going to do good in front of the home crowd, and she deserves this)
    SC: Suzuki, Murakami
    COC: Kostner, Wagner
    COR: Leonova, Asada
    TEB: Kostner, Murakami
    NHK: Suzuki, Asada

    For the host picks, Sotnikova seemed to be pretty famous in Japan (and is part of the cast for the Ice too), maybe she will be invited there. I just hope the russian wonder baby squad gets two spots each - which seems pretty impossible to begin with. Same for Gold, although she shouldn't have that much of a problem... I'd invite her, if I could
    I'd expect Li to go senior. So she will get a COC host pick I think. And at least I'd be happy if Ando would return - so maybe NHK and SA? Simply not enough spots...

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    So the JSF is basically treating Suzuki the way the RFSF treated Maria Butyrskaya. They didn't push for Maria much even after she won Worlds.

    Yikes!
    Is it supposed to be sarcasm? Sorry, I am not a native English speaker.

    If it is not sarcasm, then I don't get it at all. Masha podiumed every time at R-nationals, as well as at Europeans (which she won again in 2002), even after she won Worlds in 1999 and took bronze the following year. I don't get your point about her being mistreated by RFSF.
    Quote Originally Posted by mikeko666 View Post
    They pushed up Murakami very hard at 2010 GPF to get her on the podium
    Suzuki took the same medal a year before. They pushed up her very hard too according to your logic? Then nothing to complain about I guess. Too much theory with no grounds.
    obsessed with 3A and 3F+3Lo
    Sotnikova also keeps performing 3L-3Lo combo, so rare one. The fact that these way more difficult combos than those with the second 3T jump are not rewarding enough as they should be is not skaters' problem. It's the judging system problem. The audience wishes to see different combos, so their execution should be encouraged.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu View Post
    It's always suprising what people think they know about a sakter. Asada 'wants to jump like when she was 15'? And here I was thinking her goal was Sochi.
    It's not as if Asada couldn't decide on her own what she wanted to do or not, she doesn't own anyone to do anything - and just because generally 3-3T combos are better to do doesn't mean it can't be different for her. I'm not too sure she'll get the 3A again, but who am I to tell her - who is the one doing the work - what she should do or not? For worlds she did 8-triples FS practices, and if she would manage that, she would be pretty unbeatable (except for someone else coming up with a 3A). In regards to Sochi, trying that out now was not the worst thing she could have done. Besides that, with the japanese media being all over the 3A pretty much everytime she gives an interview, it's not that hard to understand it's such a main thing for her...
    What is frustrating for me, as a Mao fan, is there is so little attention paid to develop a winning strategy. We may disagree about whether she get the 3A back (I think she can), but I think we all agree it was not ready for this year's Worlds. I just don't see how you put that jump in your program when you are 1/2 to 3/4 UR on the jump in practice. The field was so weak this year and it really was a missed opportunity for Mao; it's unfortunate that she has the talent to win but not the willingness to execute a jumping layout that will allow her to do so without taking unnecessary risk.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    Suzuki took the same medal a year before. They pushed up her very hard too according to your logic? Then nothing to complain about I guess. Too much theory with no grounds.
    Suzuki received the second lowest PCS in both SP and FS of all six competitors, only slightly higher than Wagner at 2009 GPF. In FS, she earned the highest TES, about two points higher than Kim and five points higher than Ando while her PCS was more than eight points lower than Kim or Ando. PCS worked well as a place holder in the event.

    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    Sotnikova also keeps performing 3L-3Lo combo, so rare one. The fact that these way more difficult combos than those with the second 3T jump are not rewarding enough as they should be is not skaters' problem. It's the judging system problem. The audience wishes to see different combos, so their execution should be encouraged.
    I remember Sotnikove prefers +3Lo to +3T, but she has landed 3Lz+3T and 3T+3T this year even with "<". It looks like she is trying to switch from +3Lo to +3T.

    I assume that most of top male skaters can land 3+3Lo but don't use them in competitions for strategic reasons with a very few exceptions like Kevin Reynolds, who landed 3S+3Lo at WTT. I have seen Takahashi landing 3F+3Lo and 3Lz+3Lo in ice shows and practices recently, but he has never used them in competitions.

    I agree that Suzuki is not a Plushenko. She doesn't try to jump like men or pre-pubecent girls because she knows a mature woman's body needs different techniques, and that's how Arakawa still manages to land 3+3 at age of 30. Asada is not a Reynolds either.
    Last edited by mikeko666; 05-14-2012 at 07:12 AM.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    So the JSF is basically treating Suzuki the way the RFSF treated Maria Butyrskaya. They didn't push for Maria much even after she won Worlds.

    Yikes!
    Except, in this case, it's even worse. You can make the argument that based on results, Slutskaya had more potential and likelihood of future success. Both Murakami and Asada have faults that are consistently penalized by this system. If Asada skates clean, she'll undeniably beat Suzuki, but it's not something to dismiss another skater based on.

  14. #44
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaiys
    What is frustrating for me, as a Mao fan, is there is so little attention paid to develop a winning strategy. We may disagree about whether she get the 3A back (I think she can), but I think we all agree it was not ready for this year's Worlds. I just don't see how you put that jump in your program when you are 1/2 to 3/4 UR on the jump in practice. The field was so weak this year and it really was a missed opportunity for Mao; it's unfortunate that she has the talent to win but not the willingness to execute a jumping layout that will allow her to do so without taking unnecessary risk.
    Guess I understand what you mean. I would have loved for Mao to medal again at this years worlds. But she was a world champion twice, and that's not her goal anymore, it's Sochi. And she will probably need the 3A there. I'm not agreeing with her strategy about the 3A, if you can call it that, but I just think I'll support her no matter what plans she has.
    Besides that, her FS at this years worlds was a mess anyway. If she over trained herself, or was slightly injured, or her private loss finally really hit her (sometimes it takes a while for those things to really come through...), or anything like that. I read somewhere, she did her final practice runtrough with a 2A, maybe she already decided not to do the 3A... I just think - to say it like that - that wasn't her day.
    But I'm glad to read someone else thinks she will get the 3A back =)

  15. #45
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    I love Mao's skating, but I don't think she will ever get the 3A back. If she hasn't regained it at 21, she isn't likely to do so at 23. IMO, she needs to consider an alternate strategy, because a URd 3A is not an asset but a huge liability.

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