Have you been to any good ice shows lately?

Well, thank you for the time and effort that you have put into writing your opinion lauravvv, sorry, I wasn't able to get pass the third sentence. But you are welcome to write your own reviews, maybe someone will enjoy them. For now, let us enjoy our master-reporter!

Thank you let`s talk ! You rock, as always!

Thank you let's talk for long and in depth report! You write really well!!
But I must agree with lauravvv on some points, above all that show isn't a jumps contest. Of course bad jumps, bad landings, falls and so on aren't enjoyable, even not at the show but maybe they aren't the main thing there anyway. Oops and what you say about Savchenko-Szolkowy, poor them......

Thanks, lauravv, for posting your opinion; sorry but it seems inconsistent in some points. You prefer things to be reported

really in the sense of performance, not the execution of their technical elements.

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But IMO they go together, no way to prefer one element avoiding the other one. And let's talk did write about both sides; maybe you skipped some points, as for example:

About Savchenko/Szolkowy

There is simply no Pair, no Two and no passion/chemistry/whatever in their progs.

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About Tanya/Max

The number was like one whole stream of beauty, emotions and elegance

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.
About Akiko

The music and her skating was dramatic and very sensual, hit each note really well, especially in sequeces and footwork.

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And this superb note about Stéphan

As well as his musicality, connection to the audience and catching the character of the tune. He is slightly heavier in skating than Dai, and not that seducing in terms of pasison on the ice. But nevertheless Steph is a diamond in figure skating history, the place that he took fair and square.

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IMO, this report has both technical and emotional comments. But I will be glad to read other reports/opinions on this show, should anyone else write them. Up to now no-one did.

Let's talk is the one and only great show reporter :agree:

I enjoy the reports of let's talk. It's as if I were in the arena. I can't wait for others. She is very lucky, she can see many shows with the greatest stars.

thank you so much for your report, Let's Talk!!

Thank you for your report, Let's Talk!

Thank you so much for your report into such details as usual, let's talk!

I always enjoy any live reports/reviews both competitions and shows by GS members and only appreciative to them, though on some comments I sometimes may not fully agree , because not everyone of us can affort actually going there for various reasons. :yes: And because me remembering those old days where figure skating for me as a little girl meant only at the Winter Olympic Games and NHK Trophies on TV for a long time; there was no way of knowing for me back then that, say, Midori was so admired and respected by such many int'l skating fans. Now we have various ways to access to any live results, online streamings, videos, youtubes, reports, reviews, opinions, discussions, praises (and objections to them of course). Golden Skate Forum rocks!

Oh and if I talk about myself as a live reporter, I am not that good, I guess...my husband often complains that I tend to say only nice things about skaters I saw, so that others just can't 'comprehend' how the competition actually turned out.

let`s talk said:

Savchenko/Szolkowy skated Morricone in the first half, in the second one- some supposedly entertaining stuff. I lost the account of how many times they did 2A throw jump, obviously targeting 3A. Sooner or later it became non-interesting to look at their efforts, especially because the lack of 3A is the least of their concerns. There is simply no Pair, no Two and no passion/chemistry/whatever in their progs. Robin is just a skating body who clearly wants to retire a.s.a.p.

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I'm sad to say this, but I have to agree... I love S/S, but in the last couple of years I noticed that they seem to have no passion at all for skating: I saw them in a show in Bolzano, and I noticed that thing about the 2ATh as well (they did it 398473953 times there, too!), and I remember having the same feeling the you described watching their programs at Worlds (on TV this time): it looked like "Well, we have to do it, let's try to do it, even if I would like to be anywhere but here" (I'm not sure if the grammar is correct here, though...) and she was like a mummy during their Bolero FS...

Interesting, but I agree with let's talk. I also don't like S/S . They did not give me too much in ten years since skate together. It seems how subjective sport is the figure skating .

deedee1 said:

Thank you so much for your report into such details as usual, let's talk!

I always enjoy any live reports/reviews both competitions and shows by GS members and only appreciative to them, though on some comments I sometimes may not fully agree , because not everyone of us can affort actually going there for various reasons. :yes: And because me remembering those old days where figure skating for me as a little girl meant only at the Winter Olympic Games and NHK Trophies on TV for a long time; there was no way of knowing for me back then that, say, Midori was so admired and respected by such many int'l skating fans. Now we have various ways to access to any live results, online streamings, videos, youtubes, reports, reviews, opinions, discussions, praises (and objections to them of course). Golden Skate Forum rocks!

Oh and if I talk about myself as a live reporter, I am not that good, I guess...my husband often complains that I tend to say only nice things about skaters I saw, so that others just can't 'comprehend' how the competition actually turned out.

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I remember my early years in skating and having about three opportunities a year to watch skating on TV--a permanent drought. I had very little sense of what the skating world was really like. Nowadays, even though skating isn't doing so well in the U.S., especially on American TV, I'm grateful for the opportunity to learn about the entire world of skating from GS and YouTube. It makes such a difference.

I'm sorry to hear that Savchenko/Szolkowy seem to be skating with such lack of commitment. They have been my favorite active pair for the past few years. Even when Shen/Zhao were still skating, I loved S/S for their innovative programs, and I hoped they would rise to the top next season. I can still dream, can't I?

lauravvv said:

But, to tell the truth, I came here to see if your review was as unpleasant as others told it was.

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That's a lie, as usual in Chan ubers' rants. You came here a year ago when I wrote about Chan zamboni-ing the ice in DOI show last June. Looks like you are not over it. Poor technical content of fs shows was one of the reasons why the average viewers in NA, and partly in Europe, lost the interest in attending them. Why to go and pay if you know the guys are not going to do their best. You are in the middle of fs nowhere- Riga, Latvia (Btw, did someone say just recently that the worst Plu haters, and apparently his fans haters, are immigrants, which I assume is somehow relevant to all ex-USSR residents? ). I am in a fandom. And I don't want to end up not to be in the one. AOI had a very low tickets sale, basically a frozen one, until they included Dai in the cast and ran the commercial about his collaboration with Fumiya on TV. Guess why. No need to pretend with too long wordy post. Just say "I don't like let`s talk because she doesn't lke my PC!"


News clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8EvJJ0i00A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJZte0B5EnQ
Photos:
http://nipponnews.photoshelter.com/search?I_DSC=Art+on+Ice+2013+in+Japan+&I_DSC_AND=t&_ACT=search
http://photo.sankei.jp.msn.com/essay/data/2013/06/01art_on_ice/
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/947017_10151516875003141_1460487507_n.jpg
Ikebanas and the arena (fan video): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx4AKdD9rX0
Backstage photos: https://www.facebook.com/ArtOnIce/photos_stream

itoja said:

Well, thank you for the time and effort that you have put into writing your opinion lauravvv, sorry, I wasn't able to get pass the third sentence. But you are welcome to write your own reviews, maybe someone will enjoy them.

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Sadly, I don't have many opportunities to attend skating shows. If I could attend them at least half as often as let's talk can, then I would write reviews too. But as it is, I am watching shows mostly on videos. I realize others may think that this makes my opinion less valuable than the opinions of those who regularly see shows live. On the one hand, I agree - it's true. On the other hand, I've seen quite a lot of shows on videos, I am interested in that, and I think I know quite much about show skating despite not having seen that much live.

Pattina said:

Thanks, lauravv, for posting your opinion; sorry but it seems inconsistent in some points. You prefer things to be reported But IMO they go together, no way to prefer one element avoiding the other one. And let's talk did write about both sides; maybe you skipped some points, as for example:

About Savchenko/Szolkowy
About Tanya/Max .
About Akiko
And this superb note about Stéphan

IMO, this report has both technical and emotional comments. But I will be glad to read other reports/opinions on this show, should anyone else write them. Up to now no-one did.

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You are right. I made the same mistake that many people often make (unfortunately) - I concentrated on the negative points so much that they eclipsed the positive things almost completely in my eyes. I should have reread the review, thought it over more carefully, and replied only when my initial reaction had passed somewhat.

let`s talk said:

(Btw, did someone say just recently that the worst Plu haters, and apparently his fans haters, are immigrants, which I assume is somehow relevant to all ex-USSR residents? )


News clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8EvJJ0i00A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJZte0B5EnQ
Photos:
http://nipponnews.photoshelter.com/search?I_DSC=Art+on+Ice+2013+in+Japan+&I_DSC_AND=t&_ACT=search
http://photo.sankei.jp.msn.com/essay/data/2013/06/01art_on_ice/
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/947017_10151516875003141_1460487507_n.jpg
Ikebanas and the arena (fan video): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx4AKdD9rX0
Backstage photos: https://www.facebook.com/ArtOnIce/photos_stream

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And as we all know in Israel :yes:

Thank you for the links!

lauravvv said:

You are right. I made the same mistake that many people often make (unfortunately) - I concentrated on the negative points so much that they eclipsed the positive things almost completely in my eyes. I should have reread the review, thought it over more carefully, and replied only when my initial reaction had passed somewhat.

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No worries, lauravvv! I make the same mistakes 2105 times a month probably, and make another mistakes on usage on English words and grammar 4158 times a month I guess. But I write what I want to write anyaway. So does everyone on this board. So post often and post long, please! :yes:

let`s talk said:

That's a lie, as usual in Chan ubers' rants. You came here a year ago when I wrote about Chan zamboni-ing the ice in DOI show last June. Looks like you are not over it. Poor technical content of fs shows was one of the reasons why the average viewers in NA, and partly in Europe, lost the interest in attending them. Why to go and pay if you know the guys are not going to do their best. You are in the middle of fs nowhere- Riga, Latvia (Btw, did someone say just recently that the worst Plu haters, and apparently his fans haters, are immigrants, which I assume is somehow relevant to all ex-USSR residents? ). I am in a fandom. And I don't want to end up not to be in the one. AOI had a very low tickets sale, basically a frozen one, until they included Dai in the cast and ran the commercial about his collaboration with Fumiya on TV. Guess why. No need to pretend with too long wordy post. Just say "I don't like let`s talk because she doesn't lke my PC!"

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I admitted that I was not completely right, and I was going to apologize to you and thank you for the good things that you wrote about Stephane (although I don't agree that his skating is heavy and that he has less passion than Daisuke - it's just different). But calling me a liar is too much. I didn't write any personal insults to you.

I will explain in more detail, then. I came here from a fan page where a link to your review was posted, and where several people called it unpleasant. And it wasn't a Patrick Chan page, I assure you. I wanted to read the review for myself to see if I agree or not. I wrote upon my first impression after reading it only once. I shouldn't have done that. But initially I didn't know who had written the review - I didn't even remember your user name. I remembered that earlier 'Dreams on Ice' review and our conversation about it only some time after having read this review.

As for Chan - yes, I like him, but he is probably somewhere in 9th or 10th place of my top 10 of current male single skaters (current meaning both those who still compete, and those who continue skating in shows). My absolutely favorite current skater is Stephane Lambiel, then Kurt Browning (such a pity that he must retire completely soon), then Daisuke, then Jeffrey Buttle, Jeremy Abbott, then Plushenko, Joubert, Amodio. When it comes to the 9th and 10th place, I fluctuate between skaters like Chan, Denis Ten, Javier Fernandez, Tatsuki Machida, Johnny Weir, or recently even Shawn Sawyer (a great show skater).

As for being from Riga ("the middle of nowhere" - absolutely true when it comes to figure skating, very true in many other aspects, not so true in some other things) - I am not an immigrant from Russia. I am a Latvian with some Russian-Jewish ancestors who have lived here for generations (not from soviet times, but from earlier times). I also have purely Latvian ancestors (as purely as it can be) and Austrian ancestors. On the record, I don't hate Plushenko - I like him, and respect him a lot, as indicated by his place in my top 10 of current single male skaters.

Finally, I don't want to repeat our conversation about show skating, but I will say that I can understand the negative view on show skating as mere entertainment. I personally don't have strong prejudices against easy entertainment programs, but I am not ecstatic when it's all I see in a show. At the same time, I don't think that show programs should always contain difficult jumps, complicated spins and step sequences like right out of competition programs. I miss the old times of professional competitions and truly great show skating even without having lived them. But it's not just because of the technical content that skaters tried to include in their programs then. Most of all I miss skaters trying to create works of art instead of mere exhibition programs with very much reduced content, or just strings of their trademark elements, I miss the innovation and creativity. I even miss the entertainment programs of those times that were often of much higher quality than now - sometimes to the point that they became art. But I understand that the current requirements for competitive skaters are so high that they don't have much time left for creating exhibition programs. It's even easier to include some difficult technical elements, than to think of an interesting idea and/or story, and then to invest enough time and effort to be able to embody this idea/story properly, and/or to learn new, interesting choreography, or new interesting elements. Fortunately, there are skaters who at least try - styles (in terms of music, movement and performance) that are new to them, if nothing else. Of course, professional skaters have more time for that. But even they don't always do that. I personally am lucky that I am able to enjoy pure skating without big tricks when it's done by skaters who have some qualities that show through even in simple programs and/or who are basically good performers who don't need very much to excite the public. But I still want to see something more at least from time to time. That's why I am a fan of Stephane. He may not always include difficult jumps, but he always thinks of idea/story, style, choreography, or some interesting elements that are not jumps/spins, also about steps (although they are not as complicated as in competition programs).

deedee1 said:

No worries, lauravvv! I make the same mistakes 2105 times a month probably, and make another mistakes on usage on English words and grammar 4158 times a month I guess. But I write what I want to write anyaway. So does everyone on this board. So post often and post long, please! :yes:

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Thank you for your understanding . But, in truth, I don't like to make such mistakes, so, in the future, I must remember not to write in haste.

Thanks for your detailed report let's talk! Sounds like it was a really good show.

lauravvv said:

Thank you for your understanding . But, in truth, I don't like to make such mistakes, so, in the future, I must remember not to write in haste.

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Lauravvv, I think I like the same skaters as you in roughly the same order (Browning and Daisuke ahead of Lambiel, I'd say, and Buttle definitely, but I would add Yagudin). I thought you expressed yourself very well in post #295. (I didn't want to quote your entire long post, but I enjoyed it very much.)

You're from Riga? Our ancestors were practically neighbors. My father's side came from Lithuania--don't know where, but I like to think it was from Vilna because I hear it's so beautiful. Didn't Mikhail Baryshnikov grow up in Riga? After all these decades, he still makes my heart beat a bit faster. I don't know if he was Russian-in-Latvia or Latvian, but one look from those mournful blue eyes, and who cares?

I like show skating because, like you, I'm less interested in the tricks than I am in the total effect. Of course, an amazing quad or an airborne leap like YuNa's triple-triple will get my pulse racing, but I once watched Brian Boitano do a program based on spreadeagles. Believe me, it was every bit as riveting as any fabulous jumping pass. The pro competitions of the 1990s had wonderfully innovative skating, like Browning's "Summertime" (choreographed by Alexander Zhulin, I believe) and some of the ice dance programs by Torvill and Dean or Klimova and Ponomarenko. And the way Yuka Sato blossomed as a pro was inspiring in the extreme. I wish Michelle Kwan had spent some years as a pro, but I'm grateful we had her as long as we did, so I can't whine too much.

I hope to hear more from you, whether I agree with you or not. Hey, there are more than enough great skaters to go around, right?

lauravvv said:

I came here from a fan page where a link to your review was posted, and where several people called it unpleasant.

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No way. Fan forums don't bother to drag the stuff that they consider unpleasant towards the skater(s). It's losers pages speed for whom it doesn't matter what or whom to rant about.
Not a bid deal. Internet is for everyone.

As for reducing the tech content in shows, masters don't need it. Kurt could still jump his huge 2A at the age of 45 and present a show masterpiece as well.



One more news clip of AOI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZLWml0NzG8

let`s talk said:

No way. Fan forums don't bother to drag the stuff that they consider unpleasant towards the skater(s). It's losers pages speed for whom it doesn't matter what or whom to rant about.
Not a bid deal. Internet is for everyone.

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That's why the link wasn't added to the post itself. One of the members merely included it in her comment, noting that the review was unpleasant in her opinion, so people could decide for themselves whether to read it or not. By the way, there's nothing unpleasant in your review about the skater (Stephane Lambiel, that is) who's fan page it was - and thank you for that. Those were your comments about a few other skaters that people found unpleasant. Strangely, there are still people in the world who care about others too beside their beloved favorite. But no need to offend all Stephane fans there calling them losers just because they don't share your view on some things.

As for reducing the tech content in shows, masters don't need it. Kurt could still jump his huge 2A at the age of 45 and present a show masterpiece as well.

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Of course, those are the best examples. Not everyone - even of the best - can do that. But there are also those who think that the art side in an exhibition program is more important than jumps, and who want to leave more room for choreography and emotions. That's why they most often leave the quads for the finale (not always, though). By the way, if there are not many difficult jumps in a figure skating program (or even no jumps at all), it doesn't mean that the program is easy, even technically. As someone who seems to know quite a lot about figure skating you must know also this.