Have you been to any good ice shows lately? | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Have you been to any good ice shows lately?

Joined
Aug 16, 2009
How exciting to hear about shows that I would never be able to see for myself. Thanks especially for the detailed report about "Dreams on Ice."

LuCN, I think I agree with you that in a show, I'd rather see something that stresses artistry. Of course one doesn't want something entirely without jumps, but it's lovely to see something that one wouldn't be able to see in a competition, something that strikes a chord in a viewer. This can be especially true for pairs skaters and ice dancers, who are able to perform an emotional romantic number without worrying about the rule book. Years ago, when ice dancing was very rigid, I went to a small show in which a Canadian couple, Barbara Berezowski and David Porter, skated to the second movement of Borodin's String Quartet number 2, surely one of the most lyrical pieces ever composed. They showed me something new in skating, and from that time on I was a devoted fan of the sport. I would never have seen such possibilities in a competition.
 

let`s talk

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
I am surprised about your comments regarding Hanyu's exhibition.
I am actually worried a little. If they made such a trashy EX, what kind of competitive programs are those Uncles going to create for him? Wilson is working on his SS, is he going to choreo Yuzu's progs too? The teen-boy has never lived overseas, he is there without school and parental supervision. Maybe Ms. Abe should visit the place with some kind of inspection on what is going on. Or JSF can appoint her as an "advisor" in Yuzu's team since now such a position is in fashion. :think:
when i'm at a show and i see a spectacular splat, followed by the skater clumsily picking himself/herself off the ice, having missed several beats of music and choreographic details...
But me dear, that was precisely what had happened: splats, a bunch of step outs from not the most difficult elements in some lousy EXs. And all this in the same show where not only skaters without major titles like Tatsuki and Takahito, but also junior skaters skated better. It's not only Caro or Chan issue, it's a general tendency in FS that has been around for years and it's actually one of many reasons why the popularity of fs shows is declining in some areas. Some top skaters don't bother to work hard in shows, they think that they should be paid just for the appearance with their precious titles, like some wedding generals. Do you work half of your ability and expectations at your work too? And you boss still hasn't fired you? Such attitude of some skaters is not professional. They are paid and paid not cheap. Tickets on fs shows in Japan cost like for the Russian ballet that frequently visit here. I can't imagine that a prima-ballerina would work half of her ability and dance worse than a second-rank dancer of a corps de ballet. It's simply impossible. The reason why Plush is a cash cow is not only because he is a show case with the magnetic connection with the audience. But also because he never plays easy. The same goes about the majority of Japanese skaters, not elite ones only like Dai, but also all others, they consider it as rudeness to the audinece not to even try to do your best.
Imai skated Pure Imagination, all skaters skated only one program, Akiko too. Footwork of Yuzu's EX was done by Kurt.
 

let`s talk

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Some links:
The video will be available after July 1st when the Kanto Fuji will broadcast the show. Now only news clips:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEWsOAjD484
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPUL2Hk8ru0
Pics:
http://photo.sankei.jp.msn.com/essay/data/2012/06/0616dreams/
Great thanks to Daisuke Murakami who posted backstage pics of the yukata party (thanks, man :bow:):
http://instagr.am/p/L-GuMuG7Rg
http://instagr.am/p/L9o_Q8G7Wb/
http://instagr.am/p/L99yGEG7eu/
http://instagr.am/p/L99NTmG7el/
http://instagr.am/p/L90zAam7bw/
http://instagr.am/p/L9wVSnG7aH
 
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jiggs

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 25, 2004
But me dear, that was precisely what had happened: splats, a bunch of step outs from not the most difficult elements in some lousy EXs. And all this in the same show where not only skaters without major titles like Tatsuki and Takahito, but also junior skaters skated better. It's not only Caro or Chan issue, it's a general tendency in FS that has been around for years and it's actually one of many reasons why the popularity of fs shows is declining in some areas.

Apparently you haven't considered that most of these skaters just came out of a heavy season and all took a long and deserved break. Most of them have not even or only just started their preparations for next season. All of them have changed into new boots. Those are all factors that come into play here. I know that Caro for example hasn't been on the ice much since her last shows in Korea in the beginning of May and she skated brilliantly there.

I don't think it' s fair to blame skaters like Chan, Caro or Akiko (who didn't seem to have a good skate here either) and say "they just didn't bother to try". That is most definitely not the case, it's the shows being held in mid June where skaters are just starting their preparations for the new season and simply haven't had a lot of proper training time.
 

mikeko666

Final Flight
Joined
Apr 27, 2011
Chan and Kostner traveled all the way to Japan to perform at DOI and Suzuki just came back from Detroit. I won't blame them if they were feeling tired.

In the PIW performances aired on TV, Suzuki's Lavender was flawless while Takahashi stepped out 3A and fell in the step sequence in Sweat. I don't think a skater can give a perfect performance in every show.
 

lauravvv

Medalist
Joined
Jun 19, 2012
Country
Latvia
I am actually worried a little. If they made such a trashy EX, what kind of competitive programs are those Uncles going to create for him? Wilson is working on his SS, is he going to choreo Yuzu's progs too? The teen-boy has never lived overseas, he is there without school and parental supervision. Maybe Ms. Abe should visit the place with some kind of inspection on what is going on. Or JSF can appoint her as an "advisor" in Yuzu's team since now such a position is in fashion. :think:
Thank you very much for such a detailed review. But - ehh, are you joking here? Those 'Uncles' are both famous and respected choreographers and also respectable people. They do their jobs well. Also, Kurt Browning is a legendary showman (and also artist) - probably the best among figure skaters. I think Hanya and his coach knew what to expect when they turned to him for choreography. Plus, at 17 (and to be 18 this year), Yuzuru is not such a child anymore. I don't think that sexy choreo for a guy of that age is something unacceptable. But a skater has to be a good performer to pull something like that off, because confidence and a sense of freedom is needed to make the public believe in that image too.

But me dear, that was precisely what had happened: splats, a bunch of step outs from not the most difficult elements in some lousy EXs. And all this in the same show where not only skaters without major titles like Tatsuki and Takahito, but also junior skaters skated better. It's not only Caro or Chan issue, it's a general tendency in FS that has been around for years and it's actually one of many reasons why the popularity of fs shows is declining in some areas. Some top skaters don't bother to work hard in shows, they think that they should be paid just for the appearance with their precious titles, like some wedding generals. Do you work half of your ability and expectations at your work too? And you boss still hasn't fired you? Such attitude of some skaters is not professional. They are paid and paid not cheap. Tickets on fs shows in Japan cost like for the Russian ballet that frequently visit here. I can't imagine that a prima-ballerina would work half of her ability and dance worse than a second-rank dancer of a corps de ballet. It's simply impossible. The reason why Plush is a cash cow is not only because he is a show case with the magnetic connection with the audience. But also because he never plays easy. The same goes about the majority of Japanese skaters, not elite ones only like Dai, but also all others, they consider it as rudeness to the audinece not to even try to do your best.
Imai skated Pure Imagination, all skaters skated only one program, Akiko too. Footwork of Yuzu's EX was done by Kurt.
jiggs and mikeko666 are right. It's not like those skaters make mistakes on purpose, the same way as they don't do it on purpose in competitions. It just happens. And no one is ideal and safe from such mistakes. I also don't quite agree with you about the "big tricks" (quads and jump combinations). You forget that for japanese skaters this particular show is a celebration of the next season, a place to show their form, abilities and, in some cases, even their new competitive programs. And japanese skater's view on show skating in general is different from most north american and european skaters view of it. North american and european skaters mostly view shows not as a place to show all their technical capabilities, but rather as an opportunity to show a different - entertainment and/or art - side of skating, and also to just skate with more freedom and joy than they are able to do in competition. As far as I know and remember, that has always been so. And the biggest difference is not in the technical content used in show programs, but rather that, before, it was more about art and now it's more about entertainment.
Also, Carolina Kostner and Patrick Chan are both skaters especially renowned for their skating skills (even more than for their jumps) - so, their exhibition programs are often construed to better show those skills. If I understand correctly, Chan skated his other gala program to the Muddy Waters (an old blues legend) song 'Mannish Boy' - it's all entertainment and Chan's impressive skating skills. Whereas his 'Elegie' program is more art (+ skating skills). It has no any quads or combinations in it either - and, in my opinion, they're just not needed in that program.

A "small" note :))) - I know that the famous russian coach Alexei Mishin considers jumps to be a very important part of figure skating, and his pupils (Plushenko among them) usually do many jumps also in exhibition programs. But at one of the last year's 'Fantasy on Ice' shows (which also takes place in Japan, and where Mishin's pupils were skating too), the only skater to whom he gave a standing ovation was Stephane Lambiel, who had only two easy jumps in his program. That said, I have to wonder - what would you write about Lambiel, if he had performed in this year's 'Dreams on Ice' shows as he was initially scheduled. Because he is one of the rare artists in the current figure skating, but, as I already mentioned, there are only two simple jumps in some of his programs, and sometimes he makes mistakes even in them. At the same time, it would be completely untrue to say that he is not respectful towards his audience, or that he doesn't work really hard. Simply his view on it is different - for him it's not necessarily about including almost competition level elements in his programs, but rather about putting his heart and soul, and his emotions into his performances (of course, sometimes, when he is especially tired from previous shows or long flights, it's harder to do) and into making his programs, where choreography, musicality and/or image, feeling and that which he wants to express with his program are all more important than difficult jumps (although, at the same time, he is one of the rare non asian skaters who sometimes tries to do quads in his show performances). And also about making new and new programs each year, so that he wouldn't have to repeat himself too often, about rising to new challanges in terms of new style, new kind of music, new and difficult moves and new images/characters which he has to show. I am not writing about Lambiel just because I am his fan, but also as an example, because I know all those things about him more than about anyone else. Of course, Lambiel is different than most of those other skaters. But, still, it's not quite right to say that they don't work hard and don't respect the audience just because they don't include difficult jumps in their gala programs, or because they make mistakes. By the way, I forgot to add - the aforementioned Kurt Browning once made a program without jumps called 'Nyah' (I think there was another one, but that's the most famous of them) - now it's a legendary program, and no figure skating fan in their right mind, who knows something about skating, would say that it's an easy program.

You are right - skaters rarely do quads or jump combinations in shows like the Korean 'All That Skate' or Switzerland's 'Art on Ice', but those are still considered the biggest figure skating shows in the world (another one is China's 'Artistry on Ice'). Despite the lack of difficult jumps those shows are always full (people also from other european countries go to see 'Art on Ice') and it's a honour for skaters to be invited there. And when they go to those shows (especially 'All That Skate'), they know that they have to perform well there - just not necessarily in the sense of technical difficulty.
 
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Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Welcome, Lauravvv! I think I love you already. :eek::

As far as DOI is concerned, few here have actually seen the shows or videos of the performances. How can a discussion/debate about it be carried out based on one person's report and conclusive opinions on figure skating in general be extrapolated? :sarcasm:
 

lauravvv

Medalist
Joined
Jun 19, 2012
Country
Latvia
Welcome, Lauravvv! I think I love you already. :eek::

As far as DOI is concerned, few here have actually seen the shows or videos of the performances. How can a discussion/debate about it be carried out based on one person's report and conclusive opinions on figure skating in general be extrapolated? :sarcasm:
Thank you :). Why is that?

You're right. But how can I pass the opportunity to express my opinion on the matter :biggrin:?
 
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let`s talk

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
And japanese skater's view on show skating in general is different from most north american and european skaters view of it.
That's why they sell full houses unlike their NA colleagues.
That said, I have to wonder - what would you write about Lambiel, if he had performed in this year's 'Dreams on Ice' shows as he was initially scheduled.
I am not sure I follow. What does my comments about the current WC have anything to do with a retired WC like Lambiel? I am highly likely will see Kulik in October, and I don't expect any quad from him there. That's first. Second, I doubt that the show skills of Lambiel can be compared to Chan. But feel free to have another opinion. :cool:
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
You're right. But how can I pass the opportunity to express my opinion on the matter :biggrin:?

Your opinion is not based solely on the one show as reported and is so well articulated. I admire great skaters and think they deserve respect for all they have accomplished with talents and hard work that few would put in. I do appreciate and am thankful for reports from personal attendances but I prefer to form an opinion from actually watching it.

Thank you :). Why is that?

See above, and I think you "get" the skaters, especially great ones like Lambert, Browning, and current World Champs Chan and Kostner.
 

noidont

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 27, 2010
I only saw Art on Ice in Shanghai, skipped Artistry on Ice because the arena (same area as CoC) is just way too far out there. Daisuke was fabulous but he didn't do "The Crisis", which was what I really wanted to see. I don't know if he will ever do that ex again. I will even go to Japan for it that's how bad I want to see it. Did he do "The Crisis" in Dream on Ice?

Anyway, AoI in Shanghai was a good show. P/T was fabulous and I wasn't even their fan to begin with. V/T looked far inferior to them in a lot of areas especially speed, which surprised me. Miki didn't look in shape though.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
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Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
I only saw Art on Ice in Shanghai, skipped Artistry on Ice because the arena (same area as CoC) is just way too far out there. Daisuke was fabulous but he didn't do "The Crisis", which was what I really wanted to see. I don't know if he will ever do that ex again. I will even go to Japan for it that's how bad I want to see it. Did he do "The Crisis" in Dream on Ice?

Anyway, AoI in Shanghai was a good show. P/T was fabulous and I wasn't even their fan to begin with. V/T looked far inferior to them in a lot of areas especially speed, which surprised me. Miki didn't look in shape though.
I didn't know Petrova and Tikinov were at this or were you talking a Pang and Tong - too many acronyms. Its amazing how a month or two and V and t are in trouble; doesn't surprise me about Ando it is rather early.
 

DianaSelene

Medalist
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
I didn't know Petrova and Tikinov were at this or were you talking a Pang and Tong - too many acronyms. Its amazing how a month or two and V and t are in trouble; doesn't surprise me about Ando it is rather early.

I don't understand what you mean V/T in trouble. Someone just said that they look inferior to P/T in many aspects, but it's June so what does it show currently?
 

skfan

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 29, 2009
But me dear, that was precisely what had happened: splats, a bunch of step outs from not the most difficult elements in some lousy EXs. And all this in the same show where not only skaters without major titles like Tatsuki and Takahito, but also junior skaters skated better. It's not only Caro or Chan issue, it's a general tendency in FS that has been around for years and it's actually one of many reasons why the popularity of fs shows is declining in some areas. Some top skaters don't bother to work hard in shows, they think that they should be paid just for the appearance with their precious titles, like some wedding generals. Do you work half of your ability and expectations at your work too? And you boss still hasn't fired you? Such attitude of some skaters is not professional. They are paid and paid not cheap. Tickets on fs shows in Japan cost like for the Russian ballet that frequently visit here. I can't imagine that a prima-ballerina would work half of her ability and dance worse than a second-rank dancer of a corps de ballet. It's simply impossible. The reason why Plush is a cash cow is not only because he is a show case with the magnetic connection with the audience. But also because he never plays easy. The same goes about the majority of Japanese skaters, not elite ones only like Dai, but also all others, they consider it as rudeness to the audinece not to even try to do your best.
Imai skated Pure Imagination, all skaters skated only one program, Akiko too. Footwork of Yuzu's EX was done by Kurt.

thank you for the info on the skaters music and programs. i like ice princesses... they remind me of cotton candy :)

indeed you're right-- splats can also occur on less difficult jumps. everyone's entitled to times when they feel fatigued, and can't perform close to their best. i just find splats very disruptive. and splats on easier jumps can sometimes give the impression the skater isn't entirely focused on the performance.

no, i cannot read anyone's mind. yes, i know it's a show and the skaters aren't required to concentrate like they're performing brain surgery, or counting revolutions during COP programs. but that's the impression i get sometimes, like the skater isn't entirely engaged in the performance-- maybe the skater was distracted by an ill-timed camera flash. maybe the skater thought he/she could take it easy and still entertain even though the skater was battling fatigue or an old nagging injury... or something like that...

i am weird, but i think a skater like lambiel should make a statement and just leave jumps out of a program. show us the rest of his skating unencumbered (or unenhanced, depending on your POV) by jumps. show us a program where he uses only non-jump elements to highlight the music. just speaking for myself, as an occasional attendee at shows like COI and SOI in the USA, i would love it if a skater i admired performed a program without any jumps at all. for years i wished katia gordeeva would just let me enjoy her grace and choreography without attempting jumps like the 2a or 3t (her nemeses as a single skater). but that's just me, i find her crossovers gorgeous.:p

i don't think i'll ever see a jump-less program from dai, but if i got to see one i would jump for joy.:love:

thank you for your insights, links and posts :biggrin:
 

deedee1

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
i am weird, but i think a skater like lambiel should make a statement and just leave jumps out of a program. show us the rest of his skating unencumbered (or unenhanced, depending on your POV) by jumps. show us a program where he uses only non-jump elements to highlight the music. just speaking for myself, as an occasional attendee at shows like COI and SOI in the USA, i would love it if a skater i admired performed a program without any jumps at all. for years i wished katia gordeeva would just let me enjoy her grace and choreography without attempting jumps like the 2a or 3t (her nemeses as a single skater). but that's just me, i find her crossovers gorgeous.:p

:thumbsup: You are not the only one. I would rather want to see skaters without jumps, if they have to water down its contents and still splats.
As long as audience have to pay that much (=skaters get paid that much) for shows, they should not have falls no matter what; on jumps or in the middle of steps. No excuse. If I were one of the audience, "I did not pay some $200 to see a champion falls", I would say to myself with sigh...

With no jumps, this is one of the most gorgeous and loveliest performances for me! :love:
Sacha Cohen EX @ 2006 Torino Olympic Games:

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnT9WjFsAKs
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Kurt Browning's Nyah is also a beauty with no jumps (when he added them in for competition the program lost a lot of what made it great).
 

lauravvv

Medalist
Joined
Jun 19, 2012
Country
Latvia
I only saw Art on Ice in Shanghai, skipped Artistry on Ice because the arena (same area as CoC) is just way too far out there. Daisuke was fabulous but he didn't do "The Crisis", which was what I really wanted to see. I don't know if he will ever do that ex again. I will even go to Japan for it that's how bad I want to see it. Did he do "The Crisis" in Dream on Ice?

Anyway, AoI in Shanghai was a good show. P/T was fabulous and I wasn't even their fan to begin with. V/T looked far inferior to them in a lot of areas especially speed, which surprised me. Miki didn't look in shape though.
Thank you. It seems that V/T are usually slower at shows - maybe just not putting their full power into it. I am not sure about competitions, though.
 
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