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Thread: Have you been to any good ice shows lately?

  1. #151
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    I think Hanyu definitely deserves much more respect from adults, both as a person and as a skater.

    But the fact we haven’t seen any famous choreographer working with him yet is even more scary. If you notice Tuktamisheva, who is considered a top skater by her federation and is younger that Yuzu , has two SP and two LP this year choreographed by Wilson and Dickson.

    If the real goal is to stop his amazing trajectory of talent because he’s too young to be a contender in Sochi, they’re doing a very good job unfortunately.

  2. #152
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    I thought Wilson was doing Hanyu's choreo - am I wrong?

  3. #153
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    Huh... some videos are up on youtube now:
    http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...B&feature=plcp

    I hoped Hanyus new SP would be online already, but it's that trash of Ex again... honestly, I didn't dislike Hanyu changing to Orser, and I was rather excited about Browning and Buttle doing his choero, but... that Ex sucks big time. I'm really getting worried now, I swear I hate conspiracy theories but if that doesn't make the thought of those canadians wanting to take Patrick Chans rival out of the game cross your mind than I don't know. Yeah, that's not how it is, but it sure as hell looks like it.

    Okay, on to better things... highlight of these videos up till now is definitly Adelina for me. I mean - f' yeah! That programm is so much fun to watch, and she manages to look cute, grown up and beautiful and even sexy altogether! (Orser/Buttle/Browning, did you see? It's possible to throw in some sex appeal without ruining a skater...) And she seems to have so much fun - even with this mistakes on her jumps, she completly stole the spotlight. Just keep that fire and glow for the competitive programms, and Adelina will be tough to beat! She's got speed and power, great range of movements, grace and beautiful lines, huge jumps, musicality, great spirals... oh, and on a side note: she's developing into one of the most stunning female skaters I have ever seen Well, okay, I better stop gushing over her... I'm just very glad to see her like that when she had a 'disappointing' season (no, I don't think at all this word really fits, but some people who love to jump to conclusions were pretty much already writing her off, so...)

    The other programm I really liked was Kozukas, to my own suprise. I'm usually not a fan of his (but for his Spread Eagles definitly!) but that was beautiful to watch.
    Hopefully the rest of the programms will be up soon

  4. #154
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    Is Buttle doing Hanyu's SP and LP?
    I have a chance to see Hanyu at the Mariposa gala but its quite a drive on a friday night.

  5. #155
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    Hello everyone, I'm new here

    Just writing to say that Hanyu's FS is going to be choreographed by Wilson, as expected by many. Brian Orser was interviewed for the japanese skating book Cutting Edge that came out a couple of days ago (there are also a few pictures of him, Hanyu and Tracy Wilson working together in Toronto) and he has basically confirmed this, saying that Wilson is very excited at the thought of working with Hanyu.

    I think it's too early to talk about conspiracy. I didn't particularly like the whole changing coach affair, but up until now there hasn't been any hint that his technique has gotten worse, considering that he's still slowly recovering from his injury. His basic skating skills have changed for the better already, his stroking looks much more effortless than it was before. It was unlucky that in the two EXes that were broadcast he didn't skate clean, but by reading twitter reports it's clear that he's also skated many clean programs, that his 4S has gotten better, so much that he did it solo many times and once in sequence with a 3A under spotlights. He's landed 4T-3A at least 3 times during the past two weeks. It seems like he never fell during shows last summer but he did, as much as he does now.
    As for his programs, that's another question. I agree with all of you, his EX is trash. Though to be honest the atmosphere is not much different than his Vertigo EX, which was choreographed by his former coach, but had him shaking his hips and stroking his body in leather pants, at age fifteen. Was that supposed to look innocent? I think it's only hitting us harder now because the program was choreographed by Kurt and we were expecting something great The point is, I think he's enjoying himself, enjoying the chance of looking cooler, more grown up. He's almost eighteen, he's not a child (though he may look younger than he is) so it's no wonder, really. Yeah, it's bad but I don't see it making much damage, at least if it's confined to an EX program. I haven't seen his short so I can't comment on that, yet. As long as his programs for this year are well-choreographed, though not exactly fitting to his character (or what we think is his character), I wouldn't worry too much. Hanyu has been on the senior scene only in the past two years, and he really made a breakthrough only last year, so it's obvious that he hasn't had a chance to show much about himself, and that makes it harder for choreographers to come up with a program that really fits him. Orser himself has only known him for three months. You can't compare these relationships with the one he has with Abe, who's known him, coached him and choreographed for him since he was a novice skater.

    I think I wrote too much for my first post

  6. #156
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Welcome to Golden Skate, Kalina!

    We long posts. There is no such thing as a post that is too long, IMO!

  7. #157
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    Kalina, you make a lot of sense!

    Welcome to GS

  8. #158
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    Thank you both!

  9. #159
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    Shibs Call Me Maybe video featuring some members of THE ICE cast

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by berrya View Post
    Shibs Call Me Maybe video featuring some members of THE ICE cast
    Oh my, if that isn't the cutest video ever! Thanks for posting it!!

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalina View Post
    Orser himself has only known him for three months.
    Apparently some people are not aware that they are supposed to work hard from the day they employed/contracted. So, three months is not enough to made good stuff but it's more than enough to teach the kid male lolita-stripper tricks. Carry on . In fact his performance technically is not that great as you are implying, and video now is available. Vertigo almost looks like a classic masterpiece if you put it in a different window and play together with "Hello, I love you." And my dear, under J-law Hanyu won't get access to an adult sector in a DVD rental shop for at least two more years until he comes 20yo. Now you know. You wish to know how a teen looks proper and gorgeous? Cilck: www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UYn_zmhIfY

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by giulia95 View Post
    Actually I feel sorry for Hanyu. I’ve red he had to dress up like a girl yesterday , wearing a pink bow, pink shirt and white skirt…than he took off his T-shirt and was naked from the waist up ... then in his new exibition there’s a “stripping” part...

    Maybe it’s so funny, but it seems that the new course, the upper skating level he is supposed to reach , is all about to consider him as a sexy teen skater , in order to get the audience excited.

    As an adult, I honestly think it’s too much for a kid who was able to move a world championship audience.

    Now I’m waiting to see his new SP , hoping that at least in this case the choreographer’s main focus is on something different from sexy movements.
    Go Yuzuru!!!
    Do not worry too much. Nobody forced him to take off his shirt..
    Maybe, he did not want to wear pink t-T-shirt coz it looked too girly.
    "A little stripping" performance is not really a part of the EP.
    He takes off the shirt and throws it to audiences right after he finishes performing the EP.
    He looked like he enjoyed doing it

  13. #163
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    Kalina, great post!

    I agree that Hanyu seems to be still improving despite the change. Good point in mentioning the Vertigo choreography. Query, however, whether it was more just on the mischievous side, when he was 15. Now, that he is no longer a kid, doing that kind of booty stuff, like Kurt choreographed on the commission of Orser, comes across as hoaky and sleazy.

    I also wonder how Orser cannot know Hanyu's personality and his strengths when the rest of the world seems to know them pretty well. How can one not? Youtube is plastered with his amazing performances, and where he really soars. The two Russian choreographers who did the Romeo and Juliet choreography didn't have these issues of not knowing Hanyu's personality. Maybe they would be better suited for the job than someone who Orser is directing if Orser doesn't know Hanyu by now. That seems like common sense.

    My point is there is no excuse for that garbage EX and Orser really missed the boat when he commissioned it. It should have been as obvious to him as it was to just about everyone who saw it. Let's just say it: Orser screwed up and so did Browning. Aren't they big enough to admit that?

    Seriously, someone (and I don't mean Hanyu) should apologize for that garbage.

    With Wilson, however, Hanyu will get a decent program. But if he doesn't, what really bothers me is a lot of people are going to say that the best coaches did the best they could do. They will say that the coach/choreographer did not have time to figure out Hanyu's personality. In the present case, I just can't buy that. In the present case, it would be that the coach/choreographer failed. Hanyu is an extraordinary talent, a once in a lifetime phenomenon. If a coach needs a few years to figure that out and what he does well, and doesn't have a clue what he should be skating, s/he should not coaching him.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    Apparently some people are not aware that they are supposed to work hard from the day they employed/contracted. So, three months is not enough to made good stuff but it's more than enough to teach the kid male lolita-stripper tricks. Carry on . In fact his performance technically is not that great as you are implying, and video now is available. Vertigo almost looks like a classic masterpiece if you put it in a different window and play together with "Hello, I love you." And my dear, under J-law Hanyu won't get access to an adult sector in a DVD rental shop for at least two more years until he comes 20yo. Now you know. You wish to know how a teen looks proper and gorgeous? Cilck: www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UYn_zmhIfY
    Apparently some people are just not able to have a civil discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by phaeljones View Post
    Kalina, great post!

    I agree that Hanyu seems to be still improving despite the change. Good point in mentioning the Vertigo choreography. Query, however, whether it was more just on the mischievous side, when he was 15. Now, that he is no longer a kid, doing that kind of booty stuff, like Kurt choreographed on the commission of Orser, comes across as hoaky and sleazy.

    I also wonder how Orser cannot know Hanyu's personality and his strengths when the rest of the world seems to know them pretty well. How can one not? Youtube is plastered with his amazing performances, and where he really soars. The two Russian choreographers who did the Romeo and Juliet choreography didn't have these issues of not knowing Hanyu's personality. Maybe they would be better suited for the job than someone who Orser is directing if Orser doesn't know Hanyu by now. That seems like common sense.

    My point is there is no excuse for that garbage EX and Orser really missed the boat when he commissioned it. It should have been as obvious to him as it was to just about everyone who saw it. Let's just say it: Orser screwed up and so did Browning. Aren't they big enough to admit that?

    Seriously, someone (and I don't mean Hanyu) should apologize for that garbage.

    With Wilson, however, Hanyu will get a decent program. But if he doesn't, what really bothers me is a lot of people are going to say that the best coaches did the best they could do. They will say that the coach/choreographer did not have time to figure out Hanyu's personality. In the present case, I just can't buy that. In the present case, it would be that the coach/choreographer failed. Hanyu is an extraordinary talent, a once in a lifetime phenomenon. If a coach needs a few years to figure that out and what he does well, and doesn't have a clue what he should be skating, s/he should not coaching him.
    I don't think it looked mischievous at 15, it just didn't work, and it if it didn't get the reaction that was expected (making him look older/sexier or whatever that is) then it shouldn't have been there It came out way better the year after that, probably because he'd grown up a bit.
    Like you, I don't like his EX, but I don't think a badly choreographed EX is going to be a career-threatening thing for him. Kurt came up with this, and we don't like it: Hanyu apparently does. As long as it's an EX, and he likes it, I don't see the point of complaining too much. I just want to point out that I am not trying to justify either Browning or Orser, I'm not a fan of either of them -- it's just all the conspiracy talk that IMO, at this stage, is ridiculous. Of course he has to get decent competition programs and if he doesn't we'll have reason to doubt; but I really can't believe that just because he's skating that EX, there's already talk of evil Canadian coaches trying to keep him down because Chan has to win the Olympics or Takahashi has to remain Japan's n.1 until Sochi.
    Regarding your last paragraph, I probably didn't explain myself clearly (my poor english skills coming in, sorry). His programs, of course, will have to be of a good quality - we couldn't expect anything less. I just don't think that you can be aware of all sides of an artist's character after having known him for a short period of time. It's not a matter of working more or less, it's just the natural course of things. This doesn't mean that they won't be able to create a program that suits him, but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't fit him perfectly. Good programs, but not perfect programs. I would get angry if they got completely off target, because that wouldn't be acceptable - but not for a few rough edges, at least not this season.
    Bobrin and Bestemianova by the way didn't create his FP from scratch, the music and the basic outline had already been put down by his coach and they worked on that.

    I wanted to link Buttle's interview (he talks about Hanyu's SP) but I'm not sure if I have to wait a few more posts before doing that.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalina View Post
    Apparently some people are just not able to have a civil discussion
    So, according to you calling people uncivil makes you civil . In fact it does not. But I give you the benefit of the doubt.

    I just don't think that you can be aware of all sides of an artist's character after having known him for a short period of time. .. This doesn't mean that they won't be able to create a program that suits him, but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't fit him perfectly. Good programs, but not perfect programs. ...
    Bobrin and Bestemianova by the way didn't create his FP from scratch, the music and the basic outline had already been put down by his coach and they worked on that.
    I doubt that both Orser and Kurt are not professional enough to figure out the skater's needs, style and individuality. Other coaches do it all the time for a much shorter time. It's not like they both have never heard or never seen Hanyu's skating before. If there is no evil agenda on the table as you claim, then they just don't care. Hanyu for them is simply a little detail in their daily routine, some conveyor job that doesn't deserve any special attention. In that case they shouldn't coach him either. The competitive SP that I saw twice in THE ICE is slightly lesser crap than his EX. A collection of false postures as some show tricks. He is shallow there. But we all know that Hanyu is not, at least he can be not. This new SP is neither good nor perfect. And yes, when you are paid, and paid well, you are supposed to do your best, i.e. work perfectly, not just "good".
    Btw, Bobrin&Bestemyanova were the ones who opened the deepness in Yuzu skating. The basic outline is what a skater skates. B&B made it HOW he skates. Search youtube if you wish, his training in Moscow is all there. That passion, beautiful arms, wideness in moves, stuff that brought the CHARACTER in his Romeo, is what B&B did. Yuzu team sent him to Moscow for a reason- to get something that he couldn't get at home. Now need to devaluate B&B work with Hanyu. Unless it's your idea of being civil, then suit yourself.

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