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Thread: Tran's naturalization process hits snag

  1. #61
    Thanks Team Abbott snowflake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    a) It would be easy for the IOC to change the rules allowing this kind of cross-national team to represent one without citizenship and to do so without infringing upon the intent of the rule (to stop country-hopping).
    Do you mean for all the Olympic disciplines? To change the rules only for pairs/dance figure skating wouldn't be fair. There are other olympic team sports like tennis double, badminton double, relays, football, hockey, volleyball, basketball etc, where the rules are as strict as for figure skating. It's not allowed for a hockey player without Canadian citizenship to play for Canada. I believe there are lots of athletes that couldn't go to the Olympics on similar grounds as Tran. But Olympics as it is now is a competition between nations. The athletes know the rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    b) Yu Na Kim is Korean, but training in Canada with a Canadian coach and choreographer. Anyone think she's less Korean because of it? Or how about Dai? His choreographer is Italian. He did some training in France. Hell, the music he skated to was a French composition in a profoundly American mode. Take a gander at the Detroit school: Canadian (Shae-Lynn Bourne), Russian (Krylova), Italian (Camerlengo, Scali), and American (Swallow) coaching teams from the USA (Hubbells), Canada (W/P), France (P/B) and Australian (O'Brien/Merriman). What, should they all represent Canitalrusafralia?


    All athletes, not just figure skaters, train where they find the best conditions. Skiers where there are snow/mountains, other athletes seek a warm climate, better faciilities or whatever. And it is allowed for all of them to have "foreign" coaches at the Olympics. The world is small today and I am sure many people feel like they have two or more homelands. In the audience we often see flags that are divided to cheer for different nations/athletes.

  2. #62
    Trixie Schuba's biggest fan! blue dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowflake View Post
    Do you mean for all the Olympic disciplines? To change the rules only for pairs/dance figure skating wouldn't be fair. There are other olympic team sports like tennis double, badminton double, relays, football, hockey, volleyball, basketball etc, where the rules are as strict as for figure skating. It's not allowed for a hockey player without Canadian citizenship to play for Canada. I believe there are lots of athletes that couldn't go to the Olympics on similar grounds as Tran. But Olympics as it is now is a competition between nations. The athletes know the rules.




    All athletes, not just figure skaters, train where they find the best conditions. Skiers where there are snow/mountains, other athletes seek a warm climate, better faciilities or whatever. And it is allowed for all of them to have "foreign" coaches at the Olympics. The world is small today and I am sure many people feel like they have two or more homelands. In the audience we often see flags that are divided to cheer for different nations/athletes.
    It is so cool to watch the "countries" compete against one another at the Olympics, but perhaps they do need to open that up to team sports, like pairs skating/ice dance, doubles tennis, synchro diving, etc., because (I will probably be yelled at for saying this) there are some competitive programs that seem better able to produce one half of the team better than the other. Let's focus on pairs for a second-- Japan and Ukraine have been producing world-class female pairs skaters for a while. Because of the lack of good partners available at home, their women are winning world medals for countries like the US, Russia, and Germany.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    It's a catch 22. Tran is considered for citizenship on account of his contribution honouring Japan but to do so he had to train outside of Japan, thus not fulfilling the residency requirement.
    Totally off topic but I have questions!

    What is 'catch22'?
    My guess is this sort of sentence originally came from someone's quotation in a novel or movie. By reading the following sentence, it probably means something dilemma or contradiction. Or else, let me see...dead-end, trap or pitfall.

    My other question is: does this 'catch' always have to be accompanied with '22' in particular?? Or, any other numbers just alright?

    Sorry for the OT and such silly questions, but it's been on and off my mind for the past week...
    We have an old saying in Japan: To ask something you do not know might be an instant shame, however, never to ask is a lifelong shame. (btw, does this make any sense to you? )

  4. #64
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    catch 22 is a figure of speech in the west to do all of what you have guessed... in order for it to make sense you have you use '22'... catch 34.5 wouldn't make sense lol

    here's where I guess it came about - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch_22

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by deedee1 View Post
    Totally off topic but I have questions!

    What is 'catch22'?
    My guess is this sort of sentence originally came from someone's quotation in a novel or movie. By reading the following sentence, it probably means something dilemma or contradiction. Or else, let me see...dead-end, trap or pitfall.

    My other question is: does this 'catch' always have to be accompanied with '22' in particular?? Or, any other numbers just alright?
    It comes from Joseph Heller's novel, Catch-22. In the novel, Catch-22 is a paradoxical military rule that keeps the soldiers from avoiding their flying missions. Yossarian--the novel's protagonist--wants to be grounded from further combat flights. But, to be grounded, you need to be evaluated and diagnosed as unfit to fly. But, to be evaluated, you need to request an evaluation, and the act of requesting an evaluation proves your sanity making you fit to fly. From Heller's novel, the term "catch-22" now commonly refers to any kind of no-win situation because you're stuck in this contradictory circular logic.

    So, when SkateFiguring describes Mervin's situation as a catch-22, I think s/he is saying that for Mervin to successfully represent Japan as a pair skater, he and Narumi trains outside of Japan, which makes him unable to fulfill the residency requirement for citizenship. But, if he were to fulfill the residency requirement and train in Japan, it is most likely he and Narumi would not have the resources available to them to successfully represent Japan in pairs. This is their dilemma.

    If I remember my high school American literature class correctly, originally, the 22 bears no real meaning and was a publisher decision. I think Heller had another number in mind. But, due to the popularity of the novel, "catch-22" (with the 22 included!) is now an idiom for any paradoxical, no-win situations. It wouldn't work with any other number!

    Sorry for the OT and such silly questions, but it's been on and off my mind for the past week...
    We have an old saying in Japan: To ask something you do not know might be an instant shame, however, never to ask is a lifelong shame. (btw, does this make any sense to you? )
    "Kiku wa ittoki no haji, kikanu wa isshō no haji." I think that's how the proverb goes. You might be embarrassed for a bit to ask a question--especially for me, in a large lecture hall where no one is raising their hand--but that embarrassment usually just lasts a moment, and it's better to have asked your question than to stay ignorant--and potentially have the wrong information! Basically, don't be afraid to ask questions because that's the only way to learn!

  6. #66
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    To: Tonichelle and ohheyskaters

    Thank you so much for the link and explaining it into such details for me!

    Now I know it originally comes from the name of the famous novel by the American writer Mr. Heller, so that should be always accompanied by '22' to make any sense. Its meaning is almost the same as I guessed. Gotcha!

    Quote Originally Posted by ohheyskaters View Post

    "Kiku wa ittoki no haji, kikanu wa isshō no haji." I think that's how the proverb goes. You might be embarrassed for a bit to ask a question--especially for me, in a large lecture hall where no one is raising their hand--but that embarrassment usually just lasts a moment, and it's better to have asked your question than to stay ignorant--and potentially have the wrong information! Basically, don't be afraid to ask questions because that's the only way to learn!
    YES! That's the one. You did write the Japanese proverb PERFECTLY!
    And thank you for kindly explaining what I wanted to say in a more appropriate way; 'embarraassed' sounds more accurate than 'shame' in this case.
    I wrote the questions while LOOKING AT my lunch before me...I was probably hungry and rushed to write it.

    Today's proverb for me:
    "Isogaba Maware.(急がば回れ!)" = "Make haste slowly!"
    Last edited by deedee1; 05-23-2012 at 09:01 AM.

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