Patrick Chan preparing two new programs

[Bluebonnet]

Patrick's updated bio lists David Wilson and Jeffrey Buttle as his choreographers.

Ah, so the rumours turned out to be true. Patrick goes to Wilson and Buttle. Takahashi goes to Nichol. Probably most of fans from these two skaters feel lost, and think that the opponent took the best choreographer from their skater.

The nightmare, to me, would be both Patrick and Takahashi go to Lori Nichol in Olympic season.

The next question is: Will Wilson do SP, Buttle do LP or the other way round? I personally prefer Wilson does SP and Buttle does LP.

Actually, I believe Exogenesis was indeed a good CoP program in the eyes of the judges as well as one that was well-liked by the fans. Jeremy received great PCS from the judges all season (80+ points) despite the jumps being not quite there. It was Jeremy's TES and lack of consistency that held him back from receiving higher scores. Case in point: 2012 Worlds. Jeremy's TES = 69.78, PCS = 81.56. Or WTT: TES = 64.45, PCS = 83.94.

Top notch CoP program doesn't have TR in 7s.


WTT cannot be used as a good reference.

[Jammers]

Sadly for all his talent Jeremy doesn't win or medal like Dai or Patrick do. He's his own worst enemy and keeps getting beat by inferior skaters. Such a waste.

[evangeline]

Top knotch CoP program doesn't have TR in 7s.

WTT cannot be used as a good reference.

How convenient, looking at a single component of PCS from a single competition to judge whether a program is a "top knotch CoP program." Even if we focus on transitions for the time being, if you look at almost all the other competitions Jeremy performed Exogenesis at (even excluding WTT), you will find that his TR score was in the 8 range. Moreover, Jeremy received a 7.96 for TR at Worlds--basically, borderline 8 range.

The fact is that Jeremy received 80+ PCS at every single international competition he entered in this year despite making multiple technical errors in all his performances. Programs that are not top-notch CoP programs often live or die based on how the skater lands his/her jumps--when the jumps fail, the program has little to fall back upon, and the TES and PCS both go down. It's very telling that Jeremy's PCS was able to remain fairly high despite the jumps being a mess--because he can still rely on his skating skills, transitions, intricate choreography and performance ability, all qualities prized by CoP right now.

Also, I have little trouble believing that Jeremy's PCS would be MUCH higher if he skated Exogenesis halfway decently this season at an international competition.


ANYWAY back to Patrick, since this is a thread about him. I'm happy I got 1/2 of my wish right (Jeffrey Buttle for choreography) and I can't wait to compare the Buttle and Wilson programs, especially because Wilson used to choreograph all of Buttle's programs back then. Given Buttle's music from his competitive career, I suspect that at least one of the programs for Patrick next season will use classical music.

[ImaginaryPogue]

Anyone else think that the signs are poining towards Lee Barkell as Patrick's new coach?

Jeremy Abbott score 8.07 for transitions at the GPF, 8.11 at CoR, 7.82 at CoC, and 8.25 at the Hague. Adding in Worlds, but excluding the WTT (as per Bluebonnet's request), Jeremy Abbott's average TR score = 8.04

[SkateFiguring]

So far Patrick is listing Kathy Johnson and Eddie Shipstad as his coaches, both from the original Team Chan. Wilson and Buttle are likely to coach him the way Nichol did. Patrick's idea of coaches is a little unconventional. Since he seems to be more in charge of his own training program these days, he will likely consult and receive input from whomever he respects in areas he feels the need for help. I wrote in his fan thread that I think he needs someone who meshes well with him to keep him mentally strong, with a keen eye for nuances of his skating skills, guiding him to insights for refinements and micro improvements in every aspect that he is seeking, and of course to prevent and nip any bad technique from creeping in.

At this point we have no idea if he will specifically name a main coach in the conventional sense. He has said he will announce his new coach, choreographer(s) and programs when he is ready.

[Bluebonnet]

How convenient, looking at a single component of PCS from a single competition to judge whether a program is a "top knotch CoP program." Even if we focus on transitions for the time being, if you look at almost all the other competitions Jeremy performed Exogenesis at (even excluding WTT), you will find that his TR score was in the 8 range. Moreover, Jeremy received a 7.96 for TR at Worlds--basically, borderline 8 range.

Anyone else think that the signs are poining towards Lee Barkell as Patrick's new coach?

Jeremy Abbott score 8.07 for transitions at the GPF, 8.11 at CoR, 7.82 at CoC, and 8.25 at the Hague. Adding in Worlds, but excluding the WTT (as per Bluebonnet's request), Jeremy Abbott's average TR score = 8.04

When one talks about whether a program is a good CoP program or not, what is the direct impact from a program in this regard? Transitions.

I've checked Abbott's transition results for all season before I wrote but decided to stick with worlds and WTT since evangeline was talking about those two events. But I admit that it wasn't a whole picture of his season's skating.

I have no idea who Patrick will choose as his coach eventually but just hope that he will choose a skating expert for his technical coach. Maybe he'll make his next coach famous.

[evangeline]

When one talks about whether a program is a good CoP program or not, what is the direct impact from a program in this regard? Transitions.

Well, this is where I completely disagree with you. In my opinion, it is rather myopic to purely view whether something is a good CoP program or not through the lens of transitions alone--good CoP programs (theoretically) also directly demonstrate qualities like mastery of one-foot skating (SS), multidirectional skating (SS), proportional distribution of elements (CH), sufficient ice coverage (CH), etc. Transitions alone do not a good CoP program make--otherwise, what's the point of having so many categories of PCS? Of course, in addition to PCS, one should also consider things like high levels on spins, footwork, etc. that are essential for scoring well under CoP.

Also, IIRC, Jeremy has transitions before/after practically all his jumping passes. He would probably be scoring much higher in TR (and PCS in general) if he wasn't screwing up his jumps all the time.

Anyone else think that the signs are poining towards Lee Barkell as Patrick's new coach?

I can see it--Barkell is Buttle's old coach and he coaches at Mariposa in Barrie.....which is quite close to Toronto. Isn't Oda still training with Barkell though?

[Skater Boy]

I think Chan is destroying himself. So many changes = coaches and chorography. He is very foolish; he should stick to skating and let others make the decisions. He needs to work on his technical side as well as artistry. He still has way too many problems with his jumps and his spins sometimes he l.et's up. We saw at WTT he is clearly beatable. The public prefer Daisuke as a person and skater; the judges have ears and eyes. Chan is getting too big for his britches; he stilli s fairly young. If his skating brilliance is harboured and developed properly he will be yet another Emanual Sandhu.

[wallylutz]

I think Chan is destroying himself. So many changes = coaches and chorography. He is very foolish; he should stick to skating and let others make the decisions. He needs to work on his technical side as well as artistry.

You wish he is destroying himself.

He still has way too many problems with his jumps and his spins sometimes he l.et's up. We saw at WTT he is clearly beatable.

Anyone who seriously believes Chan is unbeatable or has a 10 falls advantage needs a serious reality check, WTT or otherwise.

The public prefer Daisuke as a person and skater; the judges have ears and eyes.

I have the greatest respect for Daisuke as a person though he is not the greatest skater in my eyes, either now or in the past. Does that mean I am not part of this "public" you refer to? Maybe I ma really an alien from Mars, you know a really scary one too with tentacles.

Chan is getting too big for his britches; he stilli s fairly young. If his skating brilliance is harboured and developed properly he will be yet another Emanual Sandhu.

uh...was Sandhu ever a two times World Champion? Yet somehow you have the audacity to equate a young person who has accomplished so much in skating to another who never lived up to his potential? Using your logic, then Takahashi could be seen as a fluke winner of the Worlds since he only did it once and most other times, he tends to bomb at Worlds and big events with few exceptions, no?

[Skater Boy]

Well I do hope Chan gets the right choreographers who will keep the transitions and develops maybe another quad or better artistry perhaps - he needs to keep developing. Takhashi has a full aresenal and if he gets more consistency he will be olympic champion. As for Abbott I think he may be a one shot wonder - I just hope his wonder happens somewhere other than olympics. A more consistent skatinger imho deserves OGM. But then again life is hardly fair.

[mskater93]

Some of the best stories are of "one shot wonders". Liz Manley had so many consistency problems but finally brought it in 1988....Paul Wylie's OSM in 1992...John Curry finally decided to "play by the rules" to win the 1976 Olympics. I only hope that at each and every event the skater/team who skates the two best combined programs wins the event and that it doesn't matter whether they were expected to win or not.