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Thread: How Levels and GOE are Determined in Ice Dance - Spins

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    How Levels and GOE are Determined in Ice Dance - Spins

    Now that we've finished examining the scoring and history of lifts, in this thread:

    http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sho...ce-Dance-Lifts



    I'd like to move on to looking at dance spins. If you have any questions before I start, I hope you'll ask questions now!
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 06-01-2012 at 01:07 PM.

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Well, let's take a Spin

    To begin, let's refer again to the "ISU Judging System: Handbook for Technical Panels," page 20-28, Dance Spins, dated July 15, 2011, and otherwise known as

    http://www.sportcentric.com/vsite/vf...-0-file,00.pdf

    The rules described are taken from ISU Communication 1677
    http://www.usfsa.org/Content/ISU%20Comm%201677.pdf

    And from time to time, I will also be citing the "ISU Judging System: Handbook for Judges and Referees," dated July 15, 2011.
    http://www.sportcentric.com/vsite/vf...-0-file,00.pdf

    Again, I caution any reader that I am just a serious fan, and if I make any mistakes, I hope you will correct me. I want the threads in this series to be as good, and as accurate, as they can be, not just as good as I can make them alone.

    The number of allowed spins in a free dance used to be two. One had to be a Spin, and the other had to be a Combination Spin. The Short Dance also had a required Spin until the 2009-2010 season.

    Nowadays, a free dance has only one spin that counts, and that can be either a Combination Spin or a Spin. Both the free dance and the short dance have an allowed transitional spin that is not scored, these days.

    The first thing is to become clear about the difference between a Combination Spin and a Spin and a Transitional Spin.

    A Spin is defined as:

    A spin skated by the Couple together in any hold. It should be performed on the spot around a
    common axis on one foot by each partner simultaneously.
    A Combination Spin is:

    A Spin after which one change of foot is made by both partners simultaneously and further
    rotations occur
    So both Combination Spins and Spins may look similar, and may involve the couple breaking out and pulling back into a spin in the opposite direction of rotation. Both types of Spin may involve changes of position. The one thing that makes a Combination Spin different from a Spin is that in a Combination Spin, a change of foot by both partners at the same time has to happen somewhere in the middle of the spin.

    and a Transitional Spin is defined as:

    Permitted Dance Spin performed optionally after the required Dance Spin.
    A Transitional Spin could be either a Spin or a Combination Spin. What's important to note about it is that the first spin done is the one that counts in a Free Dance. Any second spin is Transitional and doesn't count.

    A third spin is an illegal element, and a two point deduction would be taken for performing one.

    There are three positions in spins that the ISU rules reference (Rule 604), and the definition for how to tell whether the requirements for the positions have been achieved are in ISU Communication 1677:

    The Three Basic Positions


    The Sit Position

    Performed on one foot with skating leg bent in a one-legged crouch position and free leg forward,
    to the side or back.
    A Sit Position cannot be considered a Sit Position unless:
    If the angle between the thigh and shin of the skating leg is less than about 120 degrees, the
    position shall be considered as a Sit Position.
    Now, if the position is not a Sit Position, there are two other options:

    If the angle between the thigh and shin of the skating leg is more than about 120 degrees, the
    position shall be considered as an Upright or Camel Position depending on the other criteria that
    characterize these positions.
    The definition and criteria for the Camel Position are:

    Definitions:
    Performed on one foot with skating leg straight or slightly bent and body bent forward and free leg
    extended or bent upward on a horizontal line or higher.
    and the criteria given:

    If the waist line is not horizontal and/or the core of the body is more than 45 degrees above the
    horizontal line the position shall be considered as an Upright Position. If the angle between the
    thigh and shin of the skating leg is less than about 120 degrees, the position shall be considered
    as a Sit Position.
    So to be a Camel Position, the waist line must be horizontal and/or the core of the body is less than or equal to 45 degrees above the horizontal line, and the angle between the thigh and shin of the skating leg must be more than about 120 degrees.

    The remaining position is the Upright Postion, defined as:

    Performed on one foot with skating leg straight or slightly bent and upper body upright (on a nearly
    vertical axis), arched back or bent to the side.
    and the position is considered Upright if it is not technically a Sit or a Camel.

    Note, however, that all three positions require the skaters to be on One Foot. Two Foot pair spins are neither Combination Spins or Spins.

    The reason these definitions are important are that a team could think they have done all three positions, but if the conditions are not met for Camel and Sit, they would have done just the Upright Position, and the spin would count less.

    In Spins and Combination Spins, as in Lifts, there are Examples of Difficult Positions given:

    For the Upright Position:

    a) “Biellmann” type – body upright with the heel of the boot pulled by the hand behind and above
    the level of the head;

    b) Full layback with upper body arched back towards the ice or sideways with upper body bent to
    the side towards the ice;

    c) Split with both legs straight and the boot/skate of the free leg held up higher than the head
    (may be supported by partner);

    d) Upper body arched back or sideways with free foot almost touching the head in a full circle
    (doughnut/ring: maximum of half a blade length between head and blade).
    Examples of Difficult Postions for the Sit Position

    a) Free leg bent or straight directed forward with thigh of skating leg at least parallel to the ice;

    b) Free leg bent or straight directed backward with thigh of skating leg at least parallel to the ice;

    c) Free leg bent or straight directed to the side with not more than 90 degrees between thigh and shin of skating leg;

    d) Free leg crossed extended behind, and directed to the side, with not more than 90 degrees between thigh and shin of skating leg;

    e) Free leg crossed behind and touching the skating leg, with thigh of skating leg at least parallel to the ice;

    f) Free leg directed forward, with not more than 90 degrees between thigh and shin of skating leg, and back of upper body parallel to the ice.

    Note:
    * Examples b) and e) executed right after each other shall be considered as the same Difficult Variation of Sit Position.
    and lastly Examples of Difficult Positions for the Camel Position:

    a) Upper body (shoulder and head) turned upwards – facing up so that the line of the shoulders is at least 45 degrees past the vertical point;

    b) Body nearly horizontal or bent sideways horizontally with head and free foot almost touching (doughnut/ring: maximum of half a blade length between head and blade);

    c) Body nearly horizontal with the heel of the boot pulled by the hand above the level of the head;

    d) Body bent forward to the spinning leg and free leg extended backward and upward up to almost a full split (with the angle between thighs about 180 degrees);

    e) Simple Camel Position by the man with the free leg on horizontal line or higher.

    Note:
    * Simple camel spin by the lady shall not be considered as a Difficult Variation of Camel Position
    Finally, in definitions there are some clarifications about when a difficult variation has or has not occurred:

    *The examples cited as d) for Upright Position and b) for Camel Position (doughnut/ring) shall be considered as the same Difficult Variation

    *The examples a) for Upright Position (Biellmann) and c) for Camel Position (heel of the boot pulled by the hand above the level of the head) shall be considered as the same Difficult Variation when performed by the same partner but as two different Difficult Variations when performed by different partners.

    *Rotations shall be taken into consideration for the purpose of total number of rotations when
    performed fully, continuously, on one foot and simultaneously by both partners.

    *Rotations in Difficult Variation shall be taken into consideration for the purpose of Level when
    performed continuously in a fully established position

    Now we can move straight ahead to looking at how the Level of Spins are determined. Don't worry too much about what the "Difficult Positions" mean. When an example is given, I'll cite the appropriate difficult level:


    DETERMINING THE LEVEL OF SPINS (AS OPPOSED TO COMBINATION SPINS)

    In general, there are two Spin Options:

    OPTION ONE
    Without change of spinning direction
    OPTION TWO
    With simultaneous change of spinning direction for both partners
    So we will deal with SPINS first as opposed to Combination Spins:


    LEVEL ONE

    At least 3 rotations
    Less than 3 rotations, and the spin garners no points at all.

    LEVEL TWO

    Option 1: (No change of direction of rotation)

    2 different Difficult Variations from 2 different Basic Positions (1 by one partner and 1 by the other partner):
    each Difficult Variation for at least 2 rotations.
    Option 2 With change of direction of rotation

    At least 2 rotations in each direction

    AND

    One Difficult Variation from any Basic Position by one partner:
    Difficult Variation for at least 2 rotations.
    LEVEL THREE

    OPTION 1 (No change of direction of rotation)

    2 different Difficult Variations from 2 different Basic Positions (1 by one partner and 1 by the other partner performed simultaneously):
    each Difficult Variation for at least 5 rotations.

    OR

    3 different Difficult Variations from 3 different Basic Positions (3 by same partner or 2 by one partner and 1 by the other partner):
    each Difficult Variation for at least 2 rotations.
    OPTION 2 ( A Change of Direction of Spin is required)


    At least 2 rotations in each direction

    AND

    2 different Difficult Variations from 2 different Basic Positions (2 by same partner or 1 by one partner and 1 by the other partner):
    each Difficult Variation for at least 2 rotations
    and finally,

    LEVEL FOUR

    OPTION 1 (no change of direction of spin)



    4 different Difficult Variations from 3 different Basic Positions (2 by both partners or 3 by one partner and 1 by the other partner, at least 1 Difficult Variation being performed by partners simultaneously): each Difficult Variation for at least 2 rotations.
    OR

    OPTION 2 (with a change of direction)


    At least 2 rotations in each direction.

    AND

    3 different Difficult Variations from 3 different Basic Positions (3 by same partner or 2 by one partner and 1 by the other partner): each Difficult Variation for at least 2 rotations.
    And as with lifts, there are some changes that can be made to levels for various problems a team might have. Some are what you'd expect-lifting the partner off the ice during the spin is bad, spinning on 2 feet is bad, and losing your hold on your partner is bad:


    ADJUSTMENTS TO LEVELS

    1. If the spinning movement has been started and one or both partners is/are still on two feet after half a rotation, the Level
    shall be reduced by one Level if one partner starts on two feet and by two Levels if both partners start on two feet.

    2. If a loss of control occurs after the Dance Spin has commenced, resulting in one of the following mistakes:

    �� additional support (touch down by free leg/foot and/or hand(s) by one partner,

    �� one partner off the ice without sustaining action,

    �� both partners not holding on to each other, for up to half a rotation, and the Dance Spin continues according to Dance Spin requirements after the mistake, the Level shall be reduced by 1 Level per mistake. But if the mistake lasts for more than half a rotation, this shall be considered as an interruption and additional principles of calling shall apply.

    Notes:

    �� this provision does not apply to staying on two feet during the change of foot in a Combination Spin. However, the
    Level shall be reduced by 1 Level per partner staying on two feet more than half a rotation;

    �� this provision does not apply to one partner off the ice with a sustaining action which qualifies this move as a
    Dance Lift.

    3. If one or both partners do not change foot (to the other foot) in a Combination Spin, it will be identified as Spin Level 1.
    For spins, you'll find when a team loses a level that either one or more of the positions was disallowed, or that a postions was not held for the required number of rotations, or that one of these adjustments was required.

    Now we'll look at some Dance Spins that were done as planned. Combination Spins will not be included.

    If you have any questions, please ask, and I'll try to find out the answer.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 05-29-2012 at 05:29 AM.

  3. #3
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    I've got to admit, I'm finding spins trickier to analyze than lifts, so I'm going to start with spins that were done as planned. Perhaps after I've looked at enough of them, I'll be better at detecting why some were downgraded.

    The base score for both Spins and Combination Spins is 5.0 points. 0.5 = 1 GOE point, so the maximum score possible from a Level 4 spin would be 6.5, and the minimum possible score would be 3.5. One GOE point for a single judge is +/-0.071 points.

    Most couples do a Combination Spin, including Virtue and Moir and Pechalat and Bourzat. So we won't be talking about their spins till we finish with Spins. Below are examples of Dance Spins by all the couples on the Senior Grand Prix, at Four Continents, and Worlds, and a few from the ranks of the Juniors.

    Let's start with the highest scoring Spin of the season, Davis & White's Spin at World Team Trophy.:

    Davis & White USA, in their Die Fledermaus FD, get a Level 4 via Option 1. The entire spin is counter clockwise. They get points for 3 Difficult positions from Charlie, and one from Meryl. They are required to have both partners doing a difficult position at the same time at least once:

    I'll remind you of the rule:

    LEVEL FOUR

    OPTION 1 (no change of direction of spin)

    4 different Difficult Variations from 3 different Basic Positions (2 by both partners or 3 by one partner and 1 by the other partner, at least 1 Difficult Variation being performed by partners simultaneously): each Difficult Variation for at least 2 rotations.

    Here's Meryl & Charlie's Dance Spin from the World Team Trophy, for which they received a Level 4 and a score of 6.19.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HgYA...ailpage#t=102s

    Note how the spin is seamlessly integrated into the dance steps. Note the really difficult back entry, and the good centering. These are all fine things, but none of them will change the level of their spin. They only affect GOE.

    The whole spin is counter clockwise. From a back entry, they execute 3 rotations in camel positions by both partners,

    They get credit for one Difficult variation by Charlie:

    e) Simple Camel Position by the man with the free leg on horizontal line or higher.
    Meryl does not get credit for her position, because it is considered easy for the lady to have a proper camel position.

    They follow by 3 rotations with Meryl in a front attitude position, Charlie in a sit with his leg forward and parallel to the ice for 3 rotations.

    They get credit for Charlie's sit position:

    a) Free leg bent or straight directed forward with thigh of skating leg at least parallel to the ice;
    Meryl's forward upright attitude position, while pretty, is not considered difficult.


    They separate and pull back in, and continue rotating counter clockwise.

    Meryl is in a layback and Charlie in a one foot crouch of sorts for 3 more rotations(a sit variant)
    They get credit for Meryl's upright position in a layback

    b) Full layback with upper body arched back towards the ice or sideways with upper body bent to
    the side towards the ice;
    And for Charlie's sit position:
    e) Free leg crossed behind and touching the skating leg, with thigh of skating leg at least parallel to the ice;
    So taking a look at the definition for level 4,
    4 Difficult variations (check)
    The last 3 rotations has them each doing a difficult variation together (check)
    All difficult positions are held for 2 rotations or more (check)

    They get level four.

    Now let's look at a team that got 5.14 for the following dance spin, Zhiganshina & Gaszi GER, in their modern Romeo & Juliet routine at Worlds:

    Worlds
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...mMRDGqE#t=130s

    The first thing to determine is whether all parts of the spin are in the same direction: They are, counterclockwise.

    Secondly, count how many total rotations in each group of turns. At Worlds, they rotated 6 rotations in the first part, and 4 rotations in the second part.

    Third check what difficult positions are involved, who they are done by, and be sure that they are held for at least 2 rotations each:

    This is an attempt at Level 4, Option 1, with each partner doing 2 Difficult Positions

    OPTION 1 (no change of direction of spin)

    4 different Difficult Variations from 3 different Basic Positions (2 by both partners or 3 by one partner and 1 by the other partner, at least 1 Difficult Variation being performed by partners simultaneously): each Difficult Variation for at least 2 rotations.
    In the first part of the spin, Alexander is in a Sit position with his free leg extended forward, or maybe a little to the side.
    a) Free leg bent or straight directed forward with thigh of skating leg at least parallel to the ice;
    Yes, his thigh is parallel to the ice.

    Nelli is in a Upright split position.
    c) Split with both legs straight and the boot/skate of the free leg held up higher than the head
    (may be supported by partner);
    Nelli's position is much better than that!


    Then in the second part of the spin, note that they are allowed to pull out of the spin and recommence spinning in the direction they spun previously:

    Alexander is in a proper Camel position, with his leg horizontal or higher:

    e) Simple Camel Position by the man with the free leg on horizontal line or higher.

    Note:
    * Simple camel spin by the lady shall not be considered as a Difficult Variation of Camel Position

    and Nelli is in a crouched Sit Position with her free leg bent and extended to the back.

    b) Free leg bent or straight directed backward with thigh of skating leg at least parallel to the ice;
    I think this is the right description, but several of the descriptions are rather similar, but her leg is maybe a bit crossed.

    In any case, they received Level 4.

  4. #4
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    Wow, Doris, you have put huge effort into this. It is most difficult for fans to judge ice dance. It is so complicated. Thank you for your efforts.

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Hubbell & Donohue USA earned a level 4 and a score of 5.64 at Four Continents with this spin. They also earned level 4 at Skate America and Worlds. This spin makes it clear to me that I did not wholly understand the concept of " Four Difficult Variations from Three Different Basic Positions" called for in the rules:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um6hz...tailpage#t=93s

    In the first part, Madison does a Biellmann, and Zachary uses the forward leg extended sit spin. In the next section, Zachary is doing one of those crouching sit spins, with his leg crossed behind. Since Madison's skating thigh is not parallel to the ice, her position should be classed as an upright spin. In the last part of the spin, Madison does a layback spin, another upright variation. There are clearly four Difficult Variations, but no Camel Position.

    There is no camel in there. I was at first very confused.

    They don't reverse direction, so they are definitely doing option 1. In fact, all the teams doing Spins (rather than Combination Spins), did the entire spin was in one rotational direction.

    And they are not the only team getting credit for Level 4 without doing a camel spin:

    Shtork & Rand EST earned 5.43 and level 4 for this spin at Jr. Worlds, in their free dance to "The Story of Mikhail Strogoff (soundtrack)." The also earned Level 4 in at least 2 other competitions.

    Here's their spin at Jr Worlds
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7_Wz...tailpage#t=43s


    They start with Irina in a Biellman and Taavi in a forward leg extended sit spin, they do upright spins together with Irina in a layback, then they reposition to Irina in an upright split.

    And O'Brien and Merriman AUS, in their "In the Mood" Free dance, also get credit for a level 4, and scored 5.14, without doing a Camel Position:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5JfM...ailpage#t=110s

    Danielle does a back leg extended sit spin while Gregory does a front leg extended sit spin, Nicole goes to an upright positions, where she does a Biellman, and then a layback.

    A rereading of the requirements for Level 4 in this year's handbook for the technical panel did not help me, but ISU Communication 1610 (last year's documents) sheds some light, because it has a parenthetical explanation that this year's documentation lacks:

    OPTION 1
    At least 4 different difficult variations from 3 different types of Basic Positions (2 for both partners or 3 difficult variations in
    at least 2 different types of Basic Positions for one partner and 1 for the other partner
    ). At least one difficult variation must be performed by partners simultaneously - (each difficult variation for at least 2 rotations in a fully established position).
    Apparently, "from" means "selected from," since the clarification says "at least 2 different types of Basic Positions for one partner and 1 for the other partner." Consequently, only two Basic Positions are really required to be used in a Spin, provided there are four Difficult Variations.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 05-29-2012 at 11:43 AM.

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    I'm still not the greatest at figuring out why downgraded spins have been downgraded.

    And there's another issue: sometimes Combination Spins are downgraded to Spins. Consequently, I'm going to put off talking about Spin downgrades until after I do GOE for Spins, and do Combination Spin Levels. Then I'll discuss all the downgrades at once at the end.

    Hopefully, I'll be better at them by then.

    In any case, here's what I know about GOE for spins, as described in ISU Communication 1677, ISU Judging System Handbook for Referees and Judges:

    GRADE OF EXECUTION OF ALL DANCE SPINS:

    Entry/exit

    Minus 3 (very poor) awkward/step out

    Minus 2 ((poor) uncoordinated/off balance

    Minus 1 (mediocre) hesitant/abrupt

    Zero (average) controlled

    Plus 1 (good) smooth

    Plus 2 (superior) fluid/with ease

    Plus 3 (excellent) fluid/seamless
    Move onto one foot

    Minus 3 (very poor) delayed

    Minus 2 (poor) slow

    Minus 1 (mediocre) not together

    Zero (average) simultaneous

    Plus 1 (good) prompt

    Plus 2 (superior) quick/smooth

    Plus 3 (excellent) immediate

    Rotation

    Minus 3 (very poor) delayed

    Minus 2 (poor) very slow

    Minus 1 (mediocre) deteriorates

    Zero (average) stable

    Plus 1 (good) sustained

    Plus 2 (superior) fast with ease

    Plus 3 (excellent) very fast, flawless
    Change of Pose, if any

    Minus 3 (very poor) awkward

    Minus 2 (poor) uncoordinated/slow transition

    Minus 1 (mediocre) labored

    Zero (average) controlled

    Plus 1 (good) brief, by both, distinct

    Plus 2 (superior) brief and smooth

    Plus 3 (excellent) seamless
    Change of foot (only in combination spins)

    Minus 3 (very poor) extra push by both partners

    Minus 2 (poor) extra push by one partner

    Minus 1 (mediocre) hesitant

    Zero (average) controlled

    Plus 1 (good) controlled and quick

    Plus 2 (superior) quick, with ease

    Plus 3 (excellent) very fast, seamless
    After a judge has figured out what the GOE should be for a skill, by adding up the pluses and minuses above, they can adjust that GOE up or down for the following situations:


    DANCE SPIN ADJUSTMENTS TO LEVEL of GOE

    Reductions:

    Not on spot (travelling):
    *In one part of Combination Spin or one direction of Spin Option 2, Reduce by 1 Level

    *In Spin Option 1, both parts of Combination Spin or both directions of Spin Option 2, Reduce by 1 Level


    Pose awkward or not aesthetically pleasing, Reduce by 1 grade

    Dance Spin does not fit to the phrasing of the music. Reduce by 1 grade.

    Spin re-centers completely except Dance Spin with different directions of rotation (Option 2), Reduce by one grade.

    Change of feet not simultaneous (Combination Spin), Reduce by 1 grade.

    Increase by:
    Body lines and pose of both partners beautiful and aesthetically pleasing. Incread by 1 grade

    Speed of rotation maintained or accelerated during the Dance Spin. Increase by 1 grade.

    Entry is unexpected and/or creative. Increase by 1 grade.

    Dance Spin fits to the phrasing of the music. Increase by 1 grade
    That's it for the GOE rules for Dance Spins, and for Combination Spins.


    So do you agree with the following order of ranking for what was a good spin and what was a bad spin?

    All of the following are SP4 dance spins. For one thing, it's clear that different judging panels grade quite a bit differently from each other.

    I tend to believe that judging panels for Junior events are rather more forgiving than for senior events.

    It's interesting to note that the Spin is most popular with teams coached by Zueva & Shpilband than with any other coaching groups. Davis and White, Shibutani & Shibutani, Tobias and Stagniunas and Lichtman & Copley all did Spins last year.

    The king and queen of the dance spin are clearly Davis & White (again, remembering that Pechalat & Bourzat, Virtue and Moir, Weaver & Poje, Bobrova & Soloviev, and Ilinykh and Katsapalov have not done a combination spin in the last two years.)

    One thing that they had going for them this year was the obviously difficult (and unique, because no one else is doing it) entry to their spin. If you refer to the above "adjustments,", they would be getting an adjustment of plus one from me for that entry, because it is really hard to get the torque to spin at all, let alone that fast, just from the pressure of the blade on the ice, and the action of getting into a camel position. They are doing no tricks with the arms or using the moment of inertia about a common center point that you get when two people stroke towards each other from opposite directions at the same speed while holding hands. Managing that with just the blade is really impressive. I could even see an additional plus one adjustment for the speed of rotation:

    Their speed is certainly maintained throughout what is a long dance spin, and is faster at the end than the beginning, since the rotational moment of inertia is higher for a pair camel spin than for the other two sections of the spin.

    It's no wonder that quite a few judges gave them a plus 3 for their Spins this year. I would have:



    Davis & White USA at the 2011 GPF in their Die Fledermaus FD earned Level 4 and a score of 6.14:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvF5b...ailpage#t=116s

    Davis & White USA at the 2011 Cup of Russia, they earned 6.07
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL...ailpage#t=129s

    The overhead camera view shows centering vis a vis the writing on the ice very well.

    Davis & White 2011 at Skate America earned 6.00
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cm31D...tailpage#t=94s

    Davis & White USA at 2012 Worlds also earned 6.00
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-HVY...ailpage#t=107s

    Their centering is exquisite about the C in Championship, particularly given that they pull out and in twice, centering in the same spot each time. Of the four samples, I like this one best, actually. Also, their phrasing and arm and head movements were excellent here. The panel at Worlds was not hugely generous, IMO.


    Shibutani & Shibutani USA 2011 GPF In the Mood FD, received SP4 and a score of 5.79
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zov69...ailpage#t=110s

    The judging panel at the GPF was very generous, but it must be said that their spin matches the music very nicely.


    Shtork & Rand EST at the 2011 Tallinn JGP received for the spin in their "The Story of Mikhail Strogoff (soundtrack" FD received a Level 4 and a score of 5.79
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yJju...tailpage#t=22s

    They start with Irina in a Biellman and Taavi in a forward leg extended sit spin, they do upright spins together with Irina in a layback, and reposition to Irina in an upright split.


    Hubbell & Donohue USA 2012 Four Continents FD "I Put a Spell on You," earned a level 4 and a score of 5.64
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um6hz...tailpage#t=93s

    Perhaps they have a little slower rotational speed in the second section. I really like Madison's upright position with her leg extended forward.

    Carron & Jones FRA at 2011 Cup of China, FD Jazz Night, also received an SP4 and a 5.64
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...QuNYtjA#t=180s

    3 Difficult positions on the first set-He is in a forward sit, followed by a crouched sit, she's in one of those upfacing camels, then she does a layback in the next set. The speed of rotation is particularly nice. The positions could be a hair prettier.

    Orford & Williams CAN, at Jr Worlds 2012 Gone With the Wind FD, earned a Level 4 and a score of 5.5
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP6-2...ailpage#t=109s

    Nicole is using a aomewhat upward facing camel position-this is required to get credit for the Difficult position. She does it particularly well. However, the center on the second part of the spin has definitely moved.

    Shibutani & Shibutani USA at NHK 2011, "In the Mood FD," received SP4 and a score of 5.43
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywvdf...tailpage#t=73s

    I can see this as definitely a little worse than their GPF spin. The rotation on the second part of the spin is noticeably a little slower, and the movement out and back into the spin is not all that smooth.

    Shtork & Rand EST 2012 Jr Worlds for "The Story of Mikhail Strogoff (soundtrack" FD received SP4 and a score of 5.43
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7_Wz...tailpage#t=43s

    And Irina & Tavi's spin is definitely not as good as their spin at Tallinn-there is some travelling of the center of the spin, and the rotations are less uniform and slower here than at Tallinn.

    Kriengkrairut & Giuletti-Schmitt USA at 2011 NHK "Walking in the Sand" FD received SP4 and a score of 5.29
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5P-JS...ailpage#t=234s

    She has a nice turned up camel position. The fact that they are spinning in a very slow bluesy part of their music has made it impossible for them to both spin to the music and spin fast.

    Here is a dance spin where you can actually identify what the team's music was about; however it did not get great GOE:

    Ralph & Hill, CAN, received Level 4 for their Spin at 2012 Worlds for their Tango FD, and a score of 5.21
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u59l...ailpage#t=186s

    I really like this spin conceptually. It's too bad that they don't maintain as much speed as I would like at the end of second half of the spin. Perhaps the use of a tango-appearing armhold during the second half hinders spinning, and increases their rotational moment of inertia a bit, causing the spin to slow: taking a risk for the art of it. I could have seen this spin score a bit higher.

    Zhiganshina & Gaszi GER Romeo & Juliet (modern) at Worlds 2012 earned an Sp4 and a score 5.14
    Several judges gave them a negative GOE.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...mMRDGqE#t=130s

    I find his upright position in the first part of the spin a little awkward (a key item for reducing GOE), and they do not transition smoothly at all between the two parts of the spin, another GOE issue.

    O'Brien and Merriman AUS, in their In the Mood Free dance, get credit for a level 4, and also scored 5.14
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5JfM...ailpage#t=110s

    Danielle does a back leg extended sit spin while Gregory does a front leg extended sit spin, Nicole goes to an upright positions, where she does a Biellman, and then a layback. I would definitely have scored this spin a little higher, if only for the smoothness of their transitions. They may have suffered a bit because this skill is markedly better than most of their elements. That shouldn't happen under the IJS, but it still does.

    And lastly, to the two spins that managed to be level 4, but scored lowest:

    Sforza & Fioretti ITA at World Junior Championships 2012 in their Carmen FD received a level 4 scored 5.0
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCBKs...ailpage#t=152s

    Nice sit with the back leg extension by Sofia, at least. However, the second half of the spin really suffered, and the effort to start the last half of the spin was really labored.

    Tobias & Stagniunas EST Worlds 2012 FD The Twist received Sp4 and a score of 5.0 (5.14 at Europeans)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuibO...ailpage#t=120s

    I can definitely see this spin as the worst of the bunch. Her position in the Biellman isn't very good, and the speed of rotation noticeably slows down at the end.

    So that's it for Spins for a while, and we'll move on to Combination Spins.

    So now that you've watched all these spins, in order of decreasing scores, do you disagree with any of them? And if so, why?
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 05-31-2012 at 07:31 PM.

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