Thanks for sharing that. He always looked amazing.Originally Posted by deedee1
not 15 or 16, but Daisuke at age 17:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcAr91dhaD4
Starting at 1:06, we can already see young Dai with tempting look on his toe steps backward going into circular step sequence.
I never thought that Sasha was ready for prime time in 2000. I saw a very talented skater who need a LOT of work to be competitive. She was very juniorish - with very weak edges. She had great flexibility, beautiful posture and everything above the knees was nice, but below the knees, a mess.
Quite frankly, Sarah was a much, much better skater at this point than Sasha. Above the knees, Sarah had poor posture and not the best positions, but below the knees, she was wonderful (except for the flutz).
My preference is always for skaters with good feet. Everything else can be fixed later but if you don't have good feet, you're in trouble.
Sasha was tiny but there was nothing juniorish about her. And a girl who pointed her toes when doing triples. She had great edges. One could not do the spirals, the charlotte spiral or her I spins without great control. I don't get it. And that turn she does holding one foot up has never been done well by anyone but her. I never heard once a commentator saying she had "weak edges" or your comments. I'm ?
Last edited by skateluvr; 05-29-2012 at 05:29 PM.
If you look closely at Sasha's spirals, they were on very, very shallow edges. The positions were great, but the edges were not. Her charlotte was often just on a flat. She also constantly lost control of her edges, which I think is half the reason why she fell so much, she just could not hold landing edges for her life and many of her landings were shaky. Of course, the American commentators will not say anything is wrong with her, but I was reading someone's blog who attended and analyzed every US National and Worlds in the US from like 1990-2006ish and they always commented on how Sasha's spiral was gorgeous but on almost a flat edge.
I had never seen that program from plushy! I don't normally like him but that was cute...and he looks much better without the mullet. I would live to see him do that program now..though I suspect there would be a whole lot more butt shaking and random arm flailing!!
Spirals are learned very early in skating (spirals on a flat and on shallow basic edges are in the basic skills levels). Just because a person can do a 180 degree split doesn't make the spiral well-edged. Almost every Charlotte is on a flat (including Kwan's in the short little segment she used to do it as a transition) although I will give Caroline Zhang a TON of credit (along with Stephanie Lechler at Upper Great Lakes Regionals a few years ago) as Caroline and Stephanie both learned to do a change of edge Charlotte spiral (which is scary as heck!). Sasha never had deep edges, as DL pointed out, although her edging did improve throughout her career and was at least adequate in 06. Edging has no bearing on a spin or spin position, spins are about momentum and being able to counteract momentum to get in certain positions (like her I spin). The statue of liberty turn she did was also on a flat (with a skid-stop to change from back to front). In the same way that commentators act surprised that a skater they like got downgrades under IJS and can't understand how they got such a low score, commentators never mentioned her poor edge quality and comparative lack of speed.
I attended Champions on Ice in 2000. Of the ladies I saw that day,
Baiul and Bonaly were very very fast. Not necessarily refined, but very fast across the ice.
Kwan, Bobek, Hughes, Slutskaya, and Hamill filled the ice, with varying degrees of good speed and edges.
Cohen was quite slow and almost never skated past the hockey blue lines toward the ends of the ice -- maybe once or twice to set up a toe jump. In that company, on that day, she did not look like a senior-level skater. Hughes did.
(Sorry If I'm forgetting someone else who was there)
Irina Grigorian!
But to be a great senior skater, it takes more than perfectly pointed toes. She had great edges, relative to whom? The turn she does holding one foot up you mentioned I believe is the fan spiral where she does a backward outside three turn. IMO it's not a good move for her at all because she has no ride-out after the turn.Sasha was tiny but there was nothing juniorish about her. And a girl who pointed her toes when doing triples. She had great edges. One could not do the spirals, the charlotte spiral or her I spins without great control. I don't get it. And that turn she does holding one foot up has never been done well by anone but her. I never heard once a commentator saying she had "weak edges" or you comments. I'm ?
Charlotte is supposed to be on a flat.
Not to dispute the fact that she had shallower edges than quite a few top skaters competing against her, but what does her falling on the jumps have to do with edge quality?If anything it has more to do with the control and technique of her jumps, and her nerves.
Lambiel at 17: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVH-UWB4EaM
Deanna Stellato at 17: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ym68Lnj0xu0
Lu Chen at 15: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxaOouSXA_Q not a perfect skate, but what a talent she was! Coming from a country that had so little exposure to figure skating or any experienced coach, she was the Yuna Kim of her days.
Last edited by shine; 05-29-2012 at 03:21 PM.
I always thought that Dick Button did Sasha a great disservice in 2000 and 2001 by telling his audience that “Sasha has it all” when she really didn’t. Worse still, Sasha seemed to believe her press clippings and didn’t work on those technical deficiencies until she started training under Tarasova.
Speed, edges, and the exits to her elements were problematic. She landed her jumps on the flat and turned it into an edge. Even her much praised spirals weren’t all that. Yes the position was spectacular, but the spiral traveled in a straight line (if it had been on an edge, it would have curved), wobbled, lost speed and had very poor ice coverage.
Sasha improved her edges under Tarasova, but it was Robin Wagner who really got her down into the ice. If Sasha had stayed longer with Robin and trained the way Wagner wanted to, I think she would have won Worlds. By the end of her competitive career, Sasha’s edges had improved but she still had the weakest basic skating of any of the top ladies.
People think that it was Sasha’s head that caused her to fall and never win the big titles, other than the GPF, but I’m of the belief that it was her feet that were the problem.
I was tempted to post that myself, earlier. It is too cute. But "famous Lambiel exhibition" actually brings something else to mind - though that would be more of an infamous Lambiel exhibition, so maybe not.The famous Lambiel exhibition
Next: 17 year old Aliona Savchenko, then with Stas Morozov, at the 2001 Europeans. Remember how everyone used to skate to Man in the Iron Mask before Yags took it out of circulation for a decade or so? I can link to the same program when she was still 16, but the video quality won't be as good. Anyway, Galina Kukhar sure did know what she was doing with her pairs girls.
One year later, here's 17 year old Brian Joubert on the way to a bronze medal at his first Europeans.
And moving on to 2003, we have 15 year old Carolina Kostner in her 4th place Euros debut. She made a fan out of me.
Last edited by Buttercup; 05-29-2012 at 03:22 PM.
IIRC, Lambiel has specifically said that he does not want to video being posted around the internet. That's how bad it is!
It's been on Youtube forever. I applaud Stephane's originality, but yeah, I can see why he would be embarrassed for people to see it now.
He told Absolute Skating a few months ago that it might be fun to reinterpret his 1997 program. But he may have been joking.
you dont mean the 1997 ex, you mean the other one ?Legend says Johnny Weir was inspired for his Gaga programs with fur tale from it.
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. And it is good he has chosen all the warhorses at the beginning of his career.
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