- Joined
- Dec 16, 2006
She opens up about her last season, and o vercoming her eating disorder.
http://www.jenniferkirk.com/2012/05/29/the-unrealized-dream/
http://www.jenniferkirk.com/2012/05/29/the-unrealized-dream/
Jennifer Kirk's latest blog
- Thread starter blue dog
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2003
That post is tough to read. I think Jenny's brave to discuss openly such difficult personal issues. Maybe this is part of her recovery process. I'm sad for all she went through, starting with her mother's hurtful approach to Jenny's skating. At least she wasn't physically abusive and violent like Lucinda Ruh's mother, but she was emotionally punishing when Jenny didn't perform well. I just don't understand how parents can act like this. I think it stems from how much money they're spending on skating; it increases the pressure to make it "worthwhile." How sad is it to let that ruin your relationship with your child?
Jenny's post is certainly eye-opening, and, I have to admit, makes me wonder how widespread eating disorders are in skating. As much as I love this sport, it concerns me. I have two-year-old daughters, and I'd like to introduce them to skating because it can be so much fun. But, what if they got interested in competing and fell into some of the traps Jenny did? Is it better to just not get involved? I wish we could hear some honest input from other elite skaters about this issue.
I found Jenny's discussion of unrealized dreams interesting. She points out that often, dreams don't in fact come true, and we have to realize that and cope with it as part of life. So often, we encourage children to "Dream big, little pig" (in the words of Kristi Yamaguchi). For the lucky few, dreams do come true; but that doesn't happen for everyone, and dealing with the fallout can be tough.
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2011
I think it is common, an getting to be a problem with male skaters. Plush said in the last maybe year or two he wants to be a "thinner skater."
I always loved Jenny's skating and felt she was often under marked. She is brave to open up. Ballet world is of course, much worse as most companies want a certain height, body type and it only gets worse. I am happy she is well now, as many girls battle this for years. One remark led a healthy Diana down a road that affected her in her quest to be the perfect princess. It is everywhere they say in modeling, Hollywood. When certain beautiful tall thin skaters get held up in competitions when they do not deliver the tech content, all the other girls know why.
Eating too much, too little, the bad food available everyhere in America is killing us. I can say from experience that people rarely thought I was too thin (no never an eating disorder-just genetics) but many people have insulted me as overweight, even when they know it is medication/illness related.
My prayer is that women unite and fight back against stupid magazines and dumb articles, and that mothers tell their girls they are beautiful in every way, no matter what taunts at school. It is getting very sick that a culture of plastic surgery in the movie colony is affecting everyday women who feel awful. My mother's generation did not grow up with these women's magazine or porn magazines pushing naked women with implants and much tweaking. Men are distorted too in what they expect. Athletes need to be healthy, and It is nice indeed to see a few women in skating with real curves who can do the jumps and are accepted.
I hope the french champion can succeed without being held down for being the wrong size or color. Since women largely support skating viewership and websites, I hope we as a group become less critical. When people like Flatt get slammed for not looking like Mao, it is a shame. I wonder how many talented girls we never see because they are being told through their marks they cannot be a "senior level ice princess." I don't see any remedy to the issue sadly as it has been around a long time, esp as media is everywhere.
If women are more supportive of other women, do you suppose men would follow suit?
I always loved Jenny's skating and felt she was often under marked. She is brave to open up. Ballet world is of course, much worse as most companies want a certain height, body type and it only gets worse. I am happy she is well now, as many girls battle this for years. One remark led a healthy Diana down a road that affected her in her quest to be the perfect princess. It is everywhere they say in modeling, Hollywood. When certain beautiful tall thin skaters get held up in competitions when they do not deliver the tech content, all the other girls know why.
Eating too much, too little, the bad food available everyhere in America is killing us. I can say from experience that people rarely thought I was too thin (no never an eating disorder-just genetics) but many people have insulted me as overweight, even when they know it is medication/illness related.
My prayer is that women unite and fight back against stupid magazines and dumb articles, and that mothers tell their girls they are beautiful in every way, no matter what taunts at school. It is getting very sick that a culture of plastic surgery in the movie colony is affecting everyday women who feel awful. My mother's generation did not grow up with these women's magazine or porn magazines pushing naked women with implants and much tweaking. Men are distorted too in what they expect. Athletes need to be healthy, and It is nice indeed to see a few women in skating with real curves who can do the jumps and are accepted.
I hope the french champion can succeed without being held down for being the wrong size or color. Since women largely support skating viewership and websites, I hope we as a group become less critical. When people like Flatt get slammed for not looking like Mao, it is a shame. I wonder how many talented girls we never see because they are being told through their marks they cannot be a "senior level ice princess." I don't see any remedy to the issue sadly as it has been around a long time, esp as media is everywhere.
If women are more supportive of other women, do you suppose men would follow suit?
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- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
The problem isn't with skating - but with the homelife. I think if parents have an open line of communication with their kids certain "problems" are less likely to happen.
It's interesting to read Jenny's account of her family relationships. Much different to what we were told in fluff pieces over the years. Yet another part of "TV Jenny" I guess.
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2003
I agree parents/homelife can make a big difference. In Jenny's posts, she described how Evy Scotvold did a routine weekly weigh-in of all his skaters--with the other skaters and the parents present. Evy weighed each skater and then commented publicly on the result. All I could think, reading this, is that those parents didn't HAVE to put their children through that. They could have chosen another coach who didn't require weigh-ins (hopefully there are some). Or they could have just refused to have their child participate. (Would Evy really have dumped a paying client just because they didn't do weigh-in?) Parents need to step up and advocate for their children. They need to actively resist the pressures that can lead to eating problems/disorders, instead of abetting or reinforcing the situation. Of course this is just my opinion, and I know sometimes eating disorders may develop even with the best-intentioned parenting. :-(
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
It's a tough balance because there is an optimum size for a skater, and it is relatively thin. A slim skater can more easily rotate, and carrying around less weight lessens the impact of jump landings which could prevent injuries. The coach's job is to produce results, so I agree that it is really the parents who need to step up and control an unhealthy situation for their child. Unfortunately, I think the parents get caught up in the results-at-any-cost mindset, especially when their child is on the cusp of achieving great things.
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2006
This mindset is changing. A more muscular/curvy skater can succeed, since they are stronger than the relatively thin skaters. They have stronger twitch muscles.
Totally different sport, but an example can be found in gymnastics, where you have the body type of Shawn Johnson and Nastia Liukin. One is muscular and powerful, the other, thin and svelte.
Thank you for saying that! I thought I had noticed that too, in both that sports you mention. I like to hope that there's always a way around things like body type (within reason, of course). This is how we get the really tall singles skaters of both genders, like Kostner, Lysacek, and Robin Cousins, who excel. (Kostner's limitations are largely due to her temperament.) Come to that, Katarina Witt was no sprite. It's probably harder for a pairs skating lady to be very large, because the man has to lift her, but no one's lifting a singles skater.
In the other direction, football quarterback Doug Flutie, who was apparently very good (I don't know much about football, but this stuck in my mind) was unusually small—about five foot nine inches tall, which is roughly the height (though not the build) of Fred Astaire.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
I sometimes wonder if the success of more muscular skaters is achieved in spite of, rather than because of, their build. I think of Tonya Harding, who at times was thin and other times muscular, and think she had more success when slimmer. Michael Weiss also mentioned he did less upper body training to have a slimmer build. So I think if you can maintain your physical strength and be slimmer it helps.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
With regards to spinning/rotation, being shaped like a top (wide on top and slimmer at the bottom) is more desirable. It's one reason (among others) that more men can do a quad as compared to women. A ABC fluff piece demonstrated the physics involved in spinning and body type - citing Tim Goebel's shape being ideal for spinning/rotation - correctly proportioned in width and height. Being too tall makes it harder to remain the vertical line required to land well.
Midori Ito is an example of someone who lost her jumps when she slimmed down and lost muscle in her legs.
It really does take the right combination of factors for each unique individual. With out the right muscle mass, not being slim can hinder jumps and spins. Being slim also does not guarantee success at jumps and spins.
Midori Ito is an example of someone who lost her jumps when she slimmed down and lost muscle in her legs.
It really does take the right combination of factors for each unique individual. With out the right muscle mass, not being slim can hinder jumps and spins. Being slim also does not guarantee success at jumps and spins.
It's interesting about Tim Goebel. He actually had unusually narrow shoulders. So everything was close to the center for him.
To my eyes, Tonya was never really slim. She probably put on non-muscle weight when she allowed herself to eat too much, but her fighting weight was still pretty sturdy, thank goodness.
As you say, Heyang, it probably takes a certain combination of factors for each individual. That's probably hard for a young skater to grasp, though, and it might be tempting for him/her (more typically her) to take the short view and just try to slim down. That's when a parent needs to step in and talk fast to convince the skater to ease up.
To my eyes, Tonya was never really slim. She probably put on non-muscle weight when she allowed herself to eat too much, but her fighting weight was still pretty sturdy, thank goodness.
As you say, Heyang, it probably takes a certain combination of factors for each individual. That's probably hard for a young skater to grasp, though, and it might be tempting for him/her (more typically her) to take the short view and just try to slim down. That's when a parent needs to step in and talk fast to convince the skater to ease up.
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2006
Although skating only has three disciplines, skating has room for all body types. If you're wider on top and thinner at the legs, singles for you. Longer-legged individuals tend to find success in dance. Tiny girls and big guys find success in pairs. Of course, there are always exceptions (even at the top level). I think the reason for people believing that thinner is better in skating is because for so long, people ascribed beauty with being thin. Beauty comes in all packages. Not only that, if someone is willing to put the work in getting the best technique possible, there's no telling what they can do, regardless of their body type.
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- Jul 26, 2003
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Yes--I am reminded of Liz Manley, who wasn't the convention shape. Or for that matter, Midori Ito.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
It isn't only a matter of "beauty comes in all packages". I think there is an argument for managing a skater's weight aside from aesthetics. Kwan's "fighting weight" was less than she would be most of the year; it was noticeable at Worlds on a few occasions when she looked slimmer than she had at Nationals. Even with good technique, a skater will be better at some optimal body weight.
Where I think the coaches get it wrong is demanding skaters to weigh a certain amount without consideration of their body type, muscle density, etc. I've never been a skating judge so I don't know to what extent a skater's "look" factors in, but I would imagine the impact is marginal at best.
And Yuka Sato, one of the most accomplished all-around skaters.
Wow, Jenny Kirk went through such a tough time at such a young age and is still working through it. She is very courageous to keep writing with such honesty. Imagine being so young and already talking about a "career" that fell short of her ultimate goal. Most of the people I know from my ballet years just shoved the past out of mind and tried to forget about it once they walked away. I know that for a while it was hard for me to attend a ballet performance. Now, I'm totally over it and I love watching dance and I am very appreciative of what I learned from it. But I admire Jenny for looking back at her career and her difficulties so unflinchingly. She seems so bright and motivated and constantly in search of wisdom and truth. A good future lies before her, I hope.
All athletes have to stay in shape, of course, but the simple truth is that some body types will only get you so far no matter how much you train. And I'm not really talking about shape. That can be important for some skills of course but you also just have to be naturally athletic, whether your are naturally thin or not. It can be pretty hard for a young person to accept.
In Jenny's case, of course, she actually WAS made for figure skating. Every skater has strengths and weaknesses but if you look at it from a broad perspective she had a brilliant skating career. How many skaters wouldn't LOVE to be able to say they were national medalists and Four Continents champions and Junior World champions and whatever else she did. She wasn't just some mediocre, so what skater. But of course, it's all relative and once you get to a certain point in your career it's natural to strive for the very top, I suppose. It's too bad that she had coach who would get all worked up if she fell during a warm up even when that coach should be able to see how hard she was working. It's one thing to get angry at a skater who isn't putting in the work but to get annoyed at mistakes that are bound to happen to the best of champions seems pointless. Of course, you can't brush it aside but a mature coach should be able to say "ok, here is what you did wrong, try this, keep trying" without getting mad and childish about it.
All athletes have to stay in shape, of course, but the simple truth is that some body types will only get you so far no matter how much you train. And I'm not really talking about shape. That can be important for some skills of course but you also just have to be naturally athletic, whether your are naturally thin or not. It can be pretty hard for a young person to accept.
In Jenny's case, of course, she actually WAS made for figure skating. Every skater has strengths and weaknesses but if you look at it from a broad perspective she had a brilliant skating career. How many skaters wouldn't LOVE to be able to say they were national medalists and Four Continents champions and Junior World champions and whatever else she did. She wasn't just some mediocre, so what skater. But of course, it's all relative and once you get to a certain point in your career it's natural to strive for the very top, I suppose. It's too bad that she had coach who would get all worked up if she fell during a warm up even when that coach should be able to see how hard she was working. It's one thing to get angry at a skater who isn't putting in the work but to get annoyed at mistakes that are bound to happen to the best of champions seems pointless. Of course, you can't brush it aside but a mature coach should be able to say "ok, here is what you did wrong, try this, keep trying" without getting mad and childish about it.
Before I start:
SOME men, of course, not all...
___________
Anyway, I think there are a good number of members on this forum who should check out Jenny's latest YouTube video about 3 pieces of advice, and pay particular attention to the 3rd one she highlights: there is no such thing as a perfect body, skater or otherwise. I've been saying/hinting at this for a long time and to hear a former skater back me up here, well...there you have it.
(Heck- everyone go check it out. It is interesting, I think.)
SOME men, of course, not all...
___________
Anyway, I think there are a good number of members on this forum who should check out Jenny's latest YouTube video about 3 pieces of advice, and pay particular attention to the 3rd one she highlights: there is no such thing as a perfect body, skater or otherwise. I've been saying/hinting at this for a long time and to hear a former skater back me up here, well...there you have it.
(Heck- everyone go check it out. It is interesting, I think.)
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