Japan Open June 2012

what at charming program for Elene : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Fx1BbEL-XM&list=UUhnBU6m4NfUueVYf4Xj0gEA&index=3&feature=plcp

deedee1 said:

To those who think Takahashi's program is a bit over the top, I agree, especially his facial expression...but please be reminded the choreo is not done by Morozov this time, but Shae-Lynn Bourne.
His costume is definitely Nikolai-esque, though, of course. I would not mind at all if he is to change this costume.

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Of course I’ve always known this program is choreographed by Shae-Lynn, but Morozov edited it. He took out transitions and added over the top expressions, as well as that Morozov costume.

evangeline said:

Wait--isn't going crazy the right sort of emotion needed to skate to Pagliacci? Because the protagonist Canio the clown definitely goes crazy at the end of Pagliacci when his mind detaches from reality and he ends up stabbing his wife and her lover onstage...

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Yes, but Jeffrey’s program, for instance, portrayed this more well. He showed how the character went crazy without those over the top emotions. Oh well.

That said, I'm not a fan of Daisuke's Pagliacci. IMO, La Strada, Blues for Klook and even Invierno Porteno >>>> Pagliacci.

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ITA. Those three programs choreographed by Camerlengo are much better than Pagliacci. That’s why I hope Daisuke will go back to Camerlengo and Miyamoto in the Olympic season.

Mathman said:

Mao - float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. (But mostly float like a butterfly.) 5.8 6.0

Ashley -- going for the knockout. 5.8 5.7



To me, Mao Asada is one of the best skaters of all time.

Don't get me wrong. Ashley was great. A little reckless on her jump landings. She swings her free leg so wildly that that it looks like all of her jumps are double-footed and prevents a well-controled flow-out on the landings. Her style matched the music, which was unrelenting except for a couple of slow bars in the middle for her to catch her breath. Wonderful performance.

But Mao was a bit of heaven on earth. The music splices could have been a tad smoother, but the selections themselves were original and allowed a performance with integrity throughout, while still exhibiting variation of character. I looked at the protocols and saw an under-rotation here, a negative GOE there -- OK, whatever. (Did she take an extra step between the two segments of her combination spin?)

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I agree with what you wrote here which makes me wonder about the equity and values in the scoring system.

No doubt 6.0 would have said "Mao was masterful and a few mistakes - barely noticeable - did not take away from her performance.

Ashley also skated very well but the slight difference in the tech scores would never beat Mao's more elegant skating on that night.

There is no question in my mind the majority of fans in USA see it through a similar lens. They want superior presentation to trump a slight difference in tech and get turned off by the type of results from the JO.

Is there a solution or compromise that would keep the CoP fanatics (minority) happy while getting the majority of fans more interested again?

What about the view from Japan? Were fans there happy with the outcome?

OK - I get it is a Pro-Am - but what if we saw this result at Worlds. If we saw it in France there would be more hooting and hissing from the fans.
In USA fans would probably be happy Ashley won- but give us some credit. Many would disagree with the result.

Many GS members say the scoring system has nothing to due with skating's loss of popualarity in US.

I think it is getting harder and harder to deny.

On a more positive note -I love the Japan Open and thought it was a great weekend of skating with Finlandia and the other events going on.
What a shame so few in USA are aware of it.

hikki said:

I think Irina wazrubbed and it sounded as though the audience loved her the best. The Japanese fans are fair

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Thanks. Even if you, watching some online stream noticed that, you can image how noticable it was live in the arena. I already started to worry for my hearing after a couple of people here doubted my word.

the whole Carnival on ice

password:2012CaOI

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNDU4OTE2NDg4.html

please enjoy

Lol Irina did Malade

plushyfan said:

the whole Carnival on ice

password:2012CaOI

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNDU4OTE2NDg4.html

please enjoy

Click to expand...

janetfan said:

Is there a solution or compromise that would keep the CoP fanatics (minority) happy while getting the majority of fans more interested again?

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More and more I think the answer is no. I think not just figure skating but society’s whole attitude toward women in sports has changed. Basically what se are saying here that we liked Mao’s performance better because it was more graceful, more fluid, more elegant – in short, prettier. But pretty don’t feed the bulldog any more.

The number one woman athlete in the U.S. is Serena “smashmouth” Williams. A true died-in-the-wool tennis enthusiast can appreciate the subtleties of her game, even the grace. But mostly we cheer for how she whacks the bejusus out of the ball.

CoP proponents argue that it makes figure skating “more like other sports.” I think that’s true…but...

Be careful what you ask for.

Mathman said:

More and more I think the answer is no. I think not just figure skating but society’s whole attitude toward women in sports has changed. Basically what se are saying here that we liked Mao’s performance better because it was more graceful, more fluid, more elegant – in short, prettier. But pretty don’t feed the bulldog any more.

The number one woman athlete in the U.S. is Serena “smashmouth” Williams. A true died-in-the-wool tennis enthusiast can appreciate the subtleties of her game, even the grace. But mostly we cheer for how she whacks the bejusus out of the ball.

CoP proponents argue that it makes figure skating “more like other sports.” I think that’s true…but...

Be careful what you ask for.

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Geez, you might be right.

But if it was as easy to skate the way Mao does wouldn't more of the ladies look just as graceful?

The truth is they can't - and thinking the beauty of Mao's skating is somehow easier to achieve (or takes less practice and athleticism) than Ashley's more butch style doesn't feel true.

I think the CoP fans don't necessarily recognize that. But we all like different things.

Who knows - maybe the in the future beautiful ballet dancers will be pushed aside for dancers who jump higher and move faster but without the elegance seen in the past.

I like when Dick Button said "I have had a love affair with the fine art of figure skating for over sixty years."

Of course he also says "what's not to like about the sport of figure skating." It has everything - athleticism, music, theatrics, drama...."

Do you think on a Sunday afternoon someone turns off football to watch skating because they simply want to see another sport?
Or do they do it because they want to see something different than football and most other sports?

Indeed, "watch what you ask for" could apply very well to ISU, no?

plushyfan said:

the whole Carnival on ice

password:2012CaOI

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNDU4OTE2NDg4.html



please enjoy

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Thank you very much for posting the links but are you sure that is the whole Cranival because I have just finished watching and after Shizuka is the closing presentation with all the skaters and there are many that I havent seen like Ashley, Alena, Elene, Agnes, Michal etc.

janetfan said:

Do you think on a Sunday afternoon someone turns off football to watch skating because they simply want to see another sport?
Or do they do it because they want to see something different than football and most other sports?

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You are preaching to the choir.

I think the the ISU is 180 degrees off course if their goal is to make figure skating more like other sports. If we want to watch "other sports" there are dozens to choose from. For that matter, if we want to participate in "other sports" there are dozens to choose from.

Instead, we should be celebrating and promoting what makes figure skating different from other sports.

doctor2014 said:

Morozov edited it. He took out transitions and added over the top expressions, as well as that Morozov costume.

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Oh...if it's true, I really hope Dai will bring back those transitions as the season deepens so that he feels more comfortable with this new program.

When I first saw it on TV, I just could not take my eyes off his blades and edges and I did not pay much attention to his face...His blade works so much changed since the last season, I thought. Especially in his last step sequence, I just loved his longer-holding edges, which is something he missed due to his unflexible body-type and exactly is something he wanted to get for so long, and which is something I find it in Patrick's skating on his best day and I love.
Maybe it's just me but, in this regard Dai at this JO looked like a different/new skater to me in a way. Like I said, I would also prefer less facial expressions from him now. He does not need them, because his skating itself speaks quite a volume, I believe. :yes:

Mathman said:

You are preaching to the choir.

I think the the ISU is 180 degrees off course if their goal is to make figure skating more like other sports. If we want to watch "other sports" there are dozens to choose from. For that matter, if we want to participate in "other sports" there are dozens to choose from.

Instead, we should be celebrating and promoting what makes figure skating different from other sports.

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I loooooooooooovvvvvveeeeeeee football... I watched less when my team sucked (the last two years have been glorious! I Jim Harbaugh!)

In the US, our skating team... sucks... it's like watching the Saints go from being as awesome as they've been to.... 0-4 (now 1-4)... we went from the Kwan Cohen years to getting our hopes up with the next couple of batches of skaters in the ladies... Evan and Johnny were hit and miss... our pairs have sucked wind for decades... and no one gets ice dance (any more than they do ballroom dancing) as a sport (most skating fans argue this point as well). So I can see where naturally the interest is a little bit to a lot less...

Now, whether or not the CoP is to blame for our team having trouble keeping up with the rest of the world, I'm not as keen to believe that's the cause, I believe it's a rebuilding period for the USFSA... whether or not they're going about it correctly is another argument. The Niners weren't that great with Coach Singletary... once he got the boot and Harbaugh totally revamped the program (keeping the main players, though) we saw the team we have now!

just a thought... from someone who doesn't mind football... (and finds beauty in it, actually)

I think one of the main reasons the US is just now starting to regroup in singles is because many coaches at more developmental levels did not embrace IJS right away and continued to push kids with major technique flaws (short rotation jumps, entry edge issues) through the system. As a matter of fact, I STILL see some coaches who blow smoke, so to speak...

drivingmissdaisy said:

The falls should reflect at least in PE. To me, it doesn't matter how elegantly you fall, it is still disruptive to the program. I think what makes people mad about Chan's scoring is judges who give him near perfect PCS scores for a program with 4 falls.

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Where was the "near perfect PCS"?! Have you seen the protocols yet?!

Patrick has lost on PCS so badly! If he landed four more times, I've no doubt that he could receive a few 10s in all five categories in PCS.:yes: Instead, he has only received 84.42. His PCS was in fourth place after Takahashi, Buttle, and Plushenko. And Plushenko fell too. Ah, you mean that 9.5 on PE? That judge might have given Patrick all 10s if Patrick landed all the jumps. I don't see any reason for a fuzz.

christinaskater said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HRcile3Pr8&feature=plcp

Jeffrey Buttle gave another masterpiece performance. This is one of his best performances EVER! Simply exquisite. He should definitely comeback to the world of amateur skating.

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Why should Buttle come back and "enjoy" the second place in Canada? Buttle is too smart to do that.

Dai's transition marks last season were marked consistently in the lower eights. His transition mark was much better at JO.
It will be interesting to see if his transition mark improves with this LP in the upcoming GP events.

I always felt that the judges did not get "Blues", skating being a subjective sport, but I have a feeling they will love this program.

demarinis5 said:

I always felt that the judges did not get "Blues"

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Haha. Holy true. That was too innovating to expand their horizons. They seem like more open to cliches like POTO, Aranjuez, La Boheme, or Tosca with Turandot. Now those who are talanted enough to push boundaries have to stick with stuff that please ISU trivial taste. Stupid judges.

It's funny!

All started with this Kurt's tweet 9. Oct.

Kurt Browning ‏@KurtBrowning

Jeffrey Buttle, @J_Butt, taught everyone at the event the perfect combination of technical & magical skating. @EvgeniPlushenko is jumping  ( the pictograph couldn't be seen) it's a thumb's up pictogram.
Read the other tweets!
https://twitter.com/i/#!/search/realtime/@KurtBrowning

And some posts on Plu's website:

"I don't think it's a false alarm.
He said: Buttle is perfect combination of technical and magic skating.
Jumps are "technical".
It's another way to say: plush is technique. Buttle is technique+art (magic skating).
I know Buttle is canadian. But in his position, he must pay attention about what he write and effects his words may have.
We have to understand that american/canadian propaganda against Plush before Sochi is beginning??
Anyway Kurt lost my respect not because he said his opinion. Everyone is free. But because first it'n not true that plush is only jumps and I'm really tired to listen this thing. Than he could say: I like this "canadian" (strange) skater and stop. No one asked him anything about plush.
Im very angry!"
-------
I felt Kurt tried to PR how Canadian skaters have good skating and technique but Plushy isn't like them. So he compared "Buttle's perfect combination of technical & magical skating" to "Plushenko's good jump" (= means Plushy is jumping machine)...."
...

"Kurt wrote "Buttle taught everyone at the event the perfect combination of technical & magical skating", well I was there too but I disagree with Kurt. seriously, who is "everyone"? Probably Kurt talked to only North Americans or his yes-men


Yes, and this arrogance that everyone thinks like him, aka N/A "experts" ....anyway, he talked similar stories and 2010 about Plushy - some praises, spiced with malicious comments about Plushy's jumping skills "
-----------
Buttle is his friend and he did have the a very good skate BUT the one that he actually insults is TAKAHASHI who came first and beat Buttle.

Not only Dai but he insulted Kozuka too who was over Buttle. He also insulted the audience who according to Kurt is dumb enough not to know who in fact were the best guys there. Feel free to be "welcomed" to Japan next time, Kurt. We'll take care of it . Anyway, he came up with some excuses, and I already twittered him the reply. In general, you guys did great work with your twitters when you let him know that Sochi won't be the place for politics a la Vancouver. Kurt turned out to be an easy thing to get scared. --
---------------
Let them know who are the "people". We don't need to be patronized on how to appreciate a sport. If they want to decide on their own what is magic skating, then don't bother to have an audience.

PS., I think the biggest mistake that KB made was, if he wants to compliment Jeff Buttle, fine. Many people appreciate JB's skating as well. But don't use other skaters as a stepping stool, especially skaters who are much more popular with the audience.
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Well, as a Kurt's twitter reader myself, I enjoyed his umbrella tricks at MWO very much and
I was about to praise his performance at 46 yrs old. But I just couldn't agree with his comment.
I know in many shows Evgeni, Kurt and Jeff skate together, I imagine they talk when they meet
and they understand each other's techniques as top skaters.What I was afraid was readers' reactions,
some were saying things like "OK Plushenko has just jumps" without making sure what he jumped
(2 quads and a 3A, 3Lz2t2lo etc) and what were failed. Maybe Kurt is so tired to tweet long
messages, but since he has many readers, I'd appreciate a bit more details and accuracy.

On Evgeni's presentation, he has got seventy-five 6.0s in old scoreing system, 70 of them FOR
PRESENTATION according to wikipedia.That's the best score of mankind maybe? It means he was
very successful with skating on different theme and music, performing in different styles,
classical to modern.

If you look at JO's protocol, here are some data:

Skating skill: Takahashi 9.11 Evgeni 8.75 Jeff 8.71 Chan 8.61
Stsq: Takahashi 5.6, Chan 5.5, Evgeni 5.3, Jeff 5.3 (means both are 3rd)
Chsq: Jeff 3.6, Takahashi 3.4, Evgeni 3.3, Chan 3.2
Note that the differences are so small, so I think we can add 'Evgeni's jumps are totally amazing and his
skating skills are top notch".
It looks like Kurt had no intension to report, but I think choice of Swan theme is a good idea. People
remind of Russian classical ballet and it's a good chance to show Evgeni's performing skills.
I hope the program will be more improved if he keeps to skate this FS.

Come on! How am I supposed to post the link to his performance now? Let's assume it was his bad command of English. But to use other skaters to praise his buddy was surely over the line.

Kurt at CaOI:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAekXzwD5s8

plushyfan said:

the whole post

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plushyfan, I don't see the big deal in Kurt's tweet. I don't like the idea of involving nationalism. It's not because he's a Russian, or because he's a Canadian. Why couldn't we just leave out the nationality part and talk only about the individual skater/skaters and their skating?!

In a sense of clean and balance, Kurt was right. Buttle's skating was about 50% technics and 50% artistry. But that was not what competitive skating asked. There was no insult to Takahashi. Takahashi has traded his artistry for big jumps with empty, dull jumping passes in the first one whole minute of his program. Even some of his honest fans have admitted it. Being listed above Buttle doesn't mean that they are artistically better than Buttle. They have just earned more points according to the scoring sheet.

let`s talk said:

Come on! How am I supposed to post the link to his performance now? Let's assume it was his bad command of English. But to use other skaters to praise his buddy was surely over the line.

Kurt at CaOI:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAekXzwD5s8

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Great!! He can dance and can skate!