Maia Shibutani & Alex Shibutani

VIETgrlTerifa · Jan 5, 2017

Yep, that's the video. Here's is the time-stamped link:

https://youtu.be/HpoelrwIJao?t=682

First he says "he has thoughts about the Shibutanis" (no kidding!) and then says he's a fan of them, BUT he recently heard things about them at the training rink and he carries on that opinion of them that they may not be as wholesome as the image they're presenting. Then he says he needs to be careful, and if they're just talking about the skating then they are better than Bobrova/Soloviev. Then they go on about their carefully crafted images and compares them to Meryl and Charlie except Dave also adds that Maia and Alex take that careful control to the ice as well which holds them back blah blah same criticisms many Asian-Americans get.

xibsuarz · Jan 5, 2017

VIETgrlTerifa said:
Yep, that's the video. Here's is the time-stamped link:

https://youtu.be/HpoelrwIJao?t=682

First he says "he has thoughts about the Shibutanis" (no kidding!) and then says he's a fan of them, BUT he recently heard things about them at the training rink and he carries on that opinion of them that they may not be as wholesome as the image they're presenting. Then he says he needs to be careful, and if they're just talking about the skating then they are better than Bobrova/Soloviev. Then they go on about their carefully crafted images and compares them to Meryl and Charlie except Dave also adds that Maia and Alex take that careful control to the ice as well which holds them back blah blah same criticisms many Asian-Americans get.

They have been saying the same thing in every recap of every competition they're at. I don't give them much thought.
If Maia and Alex want to be aware of their every movement on the ice and be in control, I don't see why that is a problem. It's their strategy, and it's been working for them so far. It has its advantages and disadvantages just like every one of them.
As for what he's heard at their training rink, well, that shouldn't cloud the judgement over their skating. And just as he might have heard some things about them, many people who have met them have spoken wonders of them. No team/skaters will ever please everyone, so don't waste your time thinking about it

VIETgrlTerifa · Jan 5, 2017

I think it just gets me because he has a forum to air his bitterness via Eurosport commentary and disguise it as technical expertise. It'd be one thing if he didn't care for them and admitted it and gave constructive criticism, but his comments aren't really technical critiques and he's said things in the past where it was clear he was losing sight of objectivity and his bias against them was showing. Such as repeatedly attributing the Shibs high scores at Worlds 2016 SD to the American conspiracy or whatever. I stopped watching British Eurosport commentary of their performances when I know he's commentating because of him and British Eurosport coverage was my favorite. I'm glad when it's just Nicky/Simon/Chris.

Barb · Jan 5, 2017

naz said:
Thank you!!

He said something like "I think the Shibutanis are better than Bobrova and Soloviev ... and, again, this is where I become not a skating commentator, but a skating fan [blah blah blah here] ... but, you know, recently I heard stuff about what happens in the training rink with the Shibutanis and now I carry that on through to my opinions of them ... is perhaps not as wholesome as the perfect image that's presented". And then they go on to talk that the Shibs seem controlled both in interviews and stuff, and on the ice, too. Which, sadly, I have to agree with (the last point only!!) - I wish they would risk more, and do something completely new and unexpected, like entirely new lifts and such, whilst I also understand that they do what they know best and that they're sure will get them higher marks. They did the unexpected with hip-hop, when people thought they'd stay safe and do the swing instead. Ugh, that one line though - so unnecessary and bitter.

Thank you.

First, what kind of person says that?, open many possibilities. they are hitting to Marina?, They are stealing Scali´s lunch?, or they sometimes are forgetting to say thanks or excuse me?

. Honestly, if someone thinks Shibs are perfect or almost perfect based in what we can see at videos they are simply stupid. They are human and of course they are not perfect, but they are smart too and like whoever sensible person, they try to give their best image. Moreover, nobody can come so far being so nice, it is ilogical, life doesn´t work like that. For example, Mao Asada is super cute and nice at cameras but I have followed her enough to realize that she has a strong pesonality. Like she is/was very stubborn about the 3a and other things, I am very sure she gave to her coaches/parents/friends some sentence, attitude or just a look meaning ¨I don´t give a Sh...t what you think, I am going to try the 3a¨. So, I don´t think they are bad or rude people, but definitely they are not soooo nice, angelical people.
And about the lifts I thought the same, but after look at other teams closely, I think Shibs have some of the best lifts.

Mrs. P · Jan 5, 2017

I think the lift thing was true in the past -- but I think one thing people are not factoring that the lift issue was a combination of Alex's injuries (which they were quiet about, but clearly created problems for them for at least the 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 seasons and maybe even into the 2013-2014 Olympic season) and Maia's growth spurt -- people forgot that she was only 16 years old when she won that world bronze in 2011 -- really limited the lifts they could do for that time period.

I think there are other teams that have better lifts, but at least we're seeing some variations and new lifts -- just compare their lifts even from 2014 to now and you can see some improvement/variation in that area. And their lifts this season is lovely.

Regarding the other stuff --- there's been all sorts of rumors regarding the Shibs (more so their parents) over the years, but nothing has ever been confirmed. And even on these forums, one user tried to pull off that Alex was some sort of jerk and that is why she/he doesn't think highly of the Shibs -- and then other people pointed out examples that proved (to them) that was far from the truth. I chalk it up to -- human beings react to others differently.

Barb · Jan 5, 2017

They need something flashy, their lifts are beautiful and difficult but people want something more showy. What about their lifts of the ¨O¨ exhibition? Like they were testing new lifts there.

https://youtu.be/FReX83934kg?t=231 I think this is level 4 (Lifted partner sustains a Difficult Pose for at least 3 seconds, Lifting partner sustains a Difficult Position for at least 3 seconds and Entry Feature)

https://youtu.be/FReX83934kg?t=252 people get impressed when the girl get a high position, they do not really care if she is only there sitting above him (not so easy pose because she is arching her back and arms extended though), but anyway she is changing pose, but I am not sure if they fill the entry and exit requirements for the level 4. But they could use it as choregraphic lift removing the change of pose and using a more spectacular exit.

Anastasi14 · Jan 5, 2017

VIETgrlTerifa said:
Not to turn this Fan Fest thread negative, but did anyone catch Mark Henretty's comments on the Shibs in the latest TSL interview (it's in around the 10 minute mark more or less). This is not the first time he's thrown some shade their way, and I think it's highly unprofessional of him to give a one-liner about hearing things about them during training that clouds his judgment on them (like he needed to hear that to have his judgment clouded) without divulging any further. He's essentially letting people's imaginations run wild when I bet what he actually heard wasn't that serious. It's as if he has a real chip on his shoulder about them and is bitter about their current success and afraid of future and further success (threat they are posing to his preferred team of P/C...see the way he grudgingly acknowledges V/M, and how they blocked Chock/Bates success as he named Madison Chock as one of his favorite female ice dancers).

This reminds me of Dave's hints about the "incident on the ice in Canton" when he talks about Sinitsina/Katsalapov. So maybe Nikita Katsalapov knows the answer.

But I think it's stupid to consider all athlets as nice and perfect people, such simply can't survive in the cruel world of sport. Unfortunately. I'm just a figure skating fan, I don't know them in person so the only thing I can judge more or less objective is their skating. I like Shibs and such comment won't change my mind about their skating. But I'm intrigued) Who knows, maybe they will only benefit from a small portion of drama.

xibsuarz · Jan 5, 2017

I don't think any skater is truly mean, but they have to be tough people and have a strong character to get though the pressure of the sport. No one can be as perfect as we might think. I just don't get why Maia and Alex should be singled out in this matter when most probably all skaters have some sort of flaw. Just because some get disclosed and others don't, I don't see why it would make a difference.

Barb · Jan 5, 2017

xibsuarz said:
I don't think any skater is truly mean, but they have to be tough people and have a strong character to get though the pressure of the sport. No one can be as perfect as we might think. I just don't get why Maia and Alex should be singled out in this matter when most probably all skaters have some sort of flaw. Just because some get disclosed and others don't, I don't see why it would make a difference.

In fact I remember some interview where Maia said that sometimes things are difficut because both have very strong personalities. With other teams, sometimes a member of the team is very dominant and the other person only follow him/her without object it, but I don´t think this is the case with Shibs.

naz · Jan 5, 2017

About the lifts - sorry to have caused a discussion on that, it was certainly not my intention when I mentioned them :laugh:

I had just wanted to use them as an example of what the Shibs could do to try out something new - they could try doing multiple positions within one lift or something else that would showcase their strengths even more, not necessarily too grand. The lifts chapis gave as examples show that they do have some things in their arsenal that we could see in the Olympic season.

I remembered that early on in the season they did risk - they tried to use their rotational lift from the FD last year in the SD, but it kept getting low levels for some reason, and so they went back to the other rotational lift they do in the short dance (which by no means is inferior to any others).

--

It's possible that people could be blowing little things out of proportion, like if there was a small misunderstanding in, say, who goes onto the practice ice next, people would say it was a full-on confrontation and start rumors about that, we never know. It's just sad that people find it necessary to mention anything, clearly trying to undermine the Shibs' image.

uhh · Jan 6, 2017

chapis said:
https://youtu.be/FReX83934kg?t=252 people get impressed when the girl get a high position, they do not really care if she is only there sitting above him (not so easy pose because she is arching her back and arms extended though), but anyway she is changing pose, but I am not sure if they fill the entry and exit requirements for the level 4. But they could use it as choregraphic lift removing the change of pose and using a more spectacular exit.

I know the rules changed about sitting on the lifted partner's shoulder to be more lenient, but I'm not sure if it would allow sitting on the should for that long, unfortunately.

RE Hanretty - could he just be really late on the rumour that it was the Shibs' parents that got Igor pushed out of Canton? Or wildly misinformed - people on the Russian forums were trying to claim over the summer that the Shibs had made up the stories about S/K to get them thrown out of the rink because they felt threatened - but of course no one could quite explain why the World medallists were worried about the team that scraped 9th place!! :laugh:

The only other mildly snarky thing I've heard in relation to the Shibs from other skaters is that they don't like people to post candid pictures of them on social media, even their close friends. Which I completely understand myself & I'm not even someone like them who has worked very hard to create their own online media brand.

This incident reflects much more badly on Mark for making vague insinuations with no substance than it does on Maia & Alex.

VIETgrlTerifa · Jan 6, 2017

uhh said:
I know the rules changed about sitting on the lifted partner's shoulder to be more lenient, but I'm not sure if it would allow sitting on the should for that long, unfortunately.

RE Hanretty - could he just be really late on the rumour that it was the Shibs' parents that got Igor pushed out of Canton? Or wildly misinformed - people on the Russian forums were trying to claim over the summer that the Shibs had made up the stories about S/K to get them thrown out of the rink because they felt threatened - but of course no one could quite explain why the World medallists were worried about the team that scraped 9th place!!

The only other mildly snarky thing I've heard in relation to the Shibs from other skaters is that they don't like people to post candid pictures of them on social media, even their close friends. Which I completely understand myself & I'm not even someone like them who has worked very hard to create their own online media brand.

This incident reflects much more badly on Mark for making vague insinuations with no substance than it does on Maia & Alex.

Whatever it is, Hanretty latched on to this alleged and vague rumor about their rink behavior and just used it to support his already negative opinions on them. Listen to his commentary at 2016 Worlds (especially the SD). He pretty much ignored the actual performances and crowd reaction of the whole season to pretend the Shibs' success at Worlds came from no where. Maybe he thinks (wrongfully) that they got an artificial political push over his preferred Madison Chock and that gave him flashbacks to his own career where maybe he felt Coomes/Buckland got a push over him and Christina Chitwood, although the British Eurosport commentary at Worlds wasn't too nice on C/B either even though Hanretty openly loves Chock. His commentary had an anti-American bent to it.

Mrs. P · Jan 6, 2017

Probably wouldn't hurt to tweet at Hanretty and voice your thoughts on it. And FWIW, here's Eurosport's page if you want to send a note there.
http://corporate.eurosport.com/contact-us/

xibsuarz · Jan 9, 2017

2016 Recap!
It really was a great year for Maia and Alex :yes:

demarinis5 · Jan 9, 2017

Love the Shibs! Best of luck to them at Nationals!

Mrs. P · Jan 9, 2017

That was a cool recap! What a year.

VIETgrlTerifa · Jan 9, 2017

I loved seeing the glimpses into their off-ice hip hop training. Maia shocked me in that she looked really incredible in her hip hop dancing. They need more of that in their SD.

Arriba627 · Jan 9, 2017

Whew! What a year for the Shibs! I'm exhausted just watching! They are so awesome -- really looking forward to seeing them at Nationals!

apgold · Jan 10, 2017

Loved the year end video - hope they have a great 2017 with more titles, well deserved. I put a nice comment on the video and they replied

I like that they take the time to interact with fans on Youtube.

Barb · Jan 10, 2017

it is incredible everything they did last year. They are extremely active, I think WADA is looking for in the wrong place

. I really loved this video :clap:

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Maia Shibutani & Alex Shibutani

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