Maia Shibutani & Alex Shibutani | Page 23 | Golden Skate

Maia Shibutani & Alex Shibutani

T

tvuckic16

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
I like the choreo for both the SD and FD. They seems to be having some technical issues with their levels etc., which seems something they can address since as skaters I think they are both quite capable of achieving those levels. Obviously they will need to fix it if they want to stay competitive this season, considering they just lost out to both GP and the Brits. Doesn't seem an insurmountable problem but they have a lot of work to do before the Grand Prix.
 
S

slider11

Medalist
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Ok, so now I'm done being shocked and now I'm mad. I just watched their FD again and tired to scrutinize the circular and diagonal footwork/pattern. I'm not a trained judge but really...a level one on the diagonal?? Is it because they are out of hold alot. Is there some rule that you have to be hold for so long? I get that Cold Play is not everyone's cup of tea but the overall impression is really special. I guess their PC scores would have been lower if that was the big criticism. It just seems that certain judges have a "thing" about this couple and can't give them their credit.
 
Meoima

Meoima

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Do judges and tech panel explain for each team afterwards why they lost levels or something? There is no details explanation? Or else how teams improve the tech?
 
Alba

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
Meoima said:
Do judges and tech panel explain for each team afterwards why they lost levels or something? There is no details explanation? Or else how teams improve the tech?
Click to expand...

Yes, I think they get feedbacks

slider11 said:
Ok, so now I'm done being shocked and now I'm mad. I just watched their FD again and tired to scrutinize the circular and diagonal footwork/pattern. I'm not a trained judge but really...a level one on the diagonal?? Is it because they are out of hold alot. Is there some rule that you have to be hold for so long? I get that Cold Play is not everyone's cup of tea but the overall impression is really special. I guess their PC scores would have been lower if that was the big criticism. It just seems that certain judges have a "thing" about this couple and can't give them their credit.
Click to expand...

Tbh their execution in the FD was not that good. I think the FD has potential but they need some more work on it. I also think they should cut the vocals, at least in the first part of the program up to the crescendo part. About the step sequence (including partial step sequence) the rules say :

- Must be skated in any Dance Holds or variation thereof (unless otherwise specified by the IceDance Technical Committee). Any separation to change a hold must not exceed one measure ofmusic.

- Group A: Straight Line Step Sequences:
a) Midline – skated along the full length of the ice surface on the Long Axis.
b) Diagonal – skated as fully corner to corner as possible.

Group B: Curved Step Sequence (may be skated in anticlockwise or clockwise direction):
c) Circular – utilizing the full width of the ice surface on the Short Axis.
d) Serpentine – commences in either direction at the Long Axis at one end of the rink andprogresses in three bold curves or in two bold curves (S-Shaped) and ends at the LongAxis of the opposite end of the rink, the pattern utilizing the full width of the ice surface.

There are different requirements for different types of dance hold, which I'm not going to list them all here but you can check here (starting from page 77).

-Change of holds: To be considered for Level, a Change of Hold must be distinct (e.g. from Waltz to Foxtrot or fromWaltz to Kilian or from Foxtrot to Tango, but not from Waltz to Tango or from Waltz to Hand-inHandfacing each other).

-Dance holds: Kilian (or Kilian variation), Waltz (or Tango) and Foxtrot. To be considered for Level, a DanceHold must be held long enough, clearly recognized and not performed as a transitional movementbetween other Holds.

-Types of difficult turns: Bracket, Rocker, Counter, Choctaw, Outside Mohawk, Twizzle (for Levels 1 and 2)/DoubleTwizzle (for Levels 3 and 4) skated on distinct and recognizable Edges and in accordance withthe description in Rule 704.

-Types of One FootSection Turns: Bracket, Rocker, Counter, Twizzle (for Level 2)/Double Twizzle (for Levels 3 and 4) skated ondistinct and recognizable Edges and in accordance with the description in Rule 704

-Characteristics of Levels: A Step Sequence that deserves different Levels for the two partners shall be given the lowest of the two Levels, or No Level if the requirements for Level 1 for one of the partners are not met. (This is clearly not applied in some teams, IMO).

Now, for the levels check here from page 79

IMO, none of the teams deserved level 3 today based on one time I watched them. Therefore, I could very well be mistaken. So, I need to watch them again with rules in hand.
 
cathlen

cathlen

Team Gorgeous Cacti!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 2, 2015
Country
Poland
Great programs! Way to go ShibSibs! Now please, get the levels so that judges would appreciate programs as well!
 
S

slider11

Medalist
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Thank you for this complete explanation of the dance sequence rules. It would appear that the Shibs did not adhere to "hold" requirements-there were several breaks in hold more that one measure of music. Perhaps in the artistic effort to make the dance look less romantic they avoided the holds. The diagonal appeared to be corner to corner but it was hard to tell from the camera angle. Regardless, level one is pretty severe for the diagonal. I am hoping that someone in the Marina camp can fix this and not just push it away as bad judging.
Alba said:
Yes, I think they get feedbacks



Tbh their execution in the FD was not that good. I think the FD has potential but they need some more work on it. I also think they should cut the vocals, at least in the first part of the program up to the crescendo part. About the step sequence (including partial step sequence) the rules say :

- Must be skated in any Dance Holds or variation thereof (unless otherwise specified by the IceDance Technical Committee). Any separation to change a hold must not exceed one measure ofmusic.

- Group A: Straight Line Step Sequences:
a) Midline – skated along the full length of the ice surface on the Long Axis.
b) Diagonal – skated as fully corner to corner as possible.

Group B: Curved Step Sequence (may be skated in anticlockwise or clockwise direction):
c) Circular – utilizing the full width of the ice surface on the Short Axis.
d) Serpentine – commences in either direction at the Long Axis at one end of the rink andprogresses in three bold curves or in two bold curves (S-Shaped) and ends at the LongAxis of the opposite end of the rink, the pattern utilizing the full width of the ice surface.

There are different requirements for different types of dance hold, which I'm not going to list them all here but you can check here (starting from page 77).

-Change of holds: To be considered for Level, a Change of Hold must be distinct (e.g. from Waltz to Foxtrot or fromWaltz to Kilian or from Foxtrot to Tango, but not from Waltz to Tango or from Waltz to Hand-inHandfacing each other).

-Dance holds: Kilian (or Kilian variation), Waltz (or Tango) and Foxtrot. To be considered for Level, a DanceHold must be held long enough, clearly recognized and not performed as a transitional movementbetween other Holds.

-Types of difficult turns: Bracket, Rocker, Counter, Choctaw, Outside Mohawk, Twizzle (for Levels 1 and 2)/DoubleTwizzle (for Levels 3 and 4) skated on distinct and recognizable Edges and in accordance withthe description in Rule 704.

-Types of One FootSection Turns: Bracket, Rocker, Counter, Twizzle (for Level 2)/Double Twizzle (for Levels 3 and 4) skated ondistinct and recognizable Edges and in accordance with the description in Rule 704

-Characteristics of Levels: A Step Sequence that deserves different Levels for the two partners shall be given the lowest of the two Levels, or No Level if the requirements for Level 1 for one of the partners are not met. (This is clearly not applied in some teams, IMO).

Now, for the levels check here from page 79

IMO, none of the teams deserved level 3 today based on one time I watched them. Therefore, I could very well be mistaken. So, I need to watch them again with rules in hand.
Click to expand...
 
Alba

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
slider11 said:
Perhaps in the artistic effort to make the dance look less romantic they avoided the holds.
Click to expand...

No I don't that's the case. You can't choose what to do when it comes to required elements. It simply happens sometimes, even to the best, and it's probably also early. It was their first competition.
 
S

SunDae

Rinkside
Joined
Apr 20, 2015
On Twitter, Maia replied to a fan that for Coppelia, she and Alex worked with Cheryl Yaeger.

Yaeger was famous for her Swanhilda in Coppelia when she was a principal ballerina with American Ballet Theater during the Period when Baryshnikov was the director.

Such good advice they must have had from her. Helps explain how Maia's movements and the sense of humor in the program are so characteristic of the Ballanchine choreography.
 
M

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Fan cams!!
SD:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QPgUJjHiB4
FD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIHIWUpzhfU


Some cool things with the close-up:
* Maia's lovely expressions and the changes with them throughout the SD.
* Maia's dress has a velvet ombre at the bottom. Very cool. :)

Not so good: The lack of close holds in the FD, which likely led to the bad levels. I hope they work that part out!

ETA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHhW--qK9s8

Maia and Alex look really bored, LOL. But both their fashion choices...awesome! :thumbsup:
 
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A

apgold

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Country
United-States
Can they "fix" Fix You?

I'm not sure about this one as a FD - would make a lovely EX, but they've already done that. I love the Shibs - how elegant and precise they are + their social media savvy, but I'm not sure they will ever be the US #1 dance team b/c they are siblings.

What I mean is they can never be too romantic as dance partners, b/c of the ICK factor and that limits what they can do. What they do is amazing and I love watching them, but I don't think they will continue to rise through the ranks.
 
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Hyena

Hyena

Tous les whiskys
Medalist
Joined
Jan 9, 2014
apgold said:
Can they "fix" Fix You?

I'm not sure about this one as a FD - would make a lovely EX, but they've already done that. I love the Shibs - how elegant and precise they are + their social media savvy, but I'm not sure they will ever be the US #1 dance team b/c they are siblings.

What I mean is they can never be too romantic as dance partners, b/c of the ICK factor and that limits what they can do. What they do is amazing and I love watching them, but I don't think they will continue to rise through the ranks.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's the sibling issue for them. After all, they've made it to the world podium before (even if it was unexpected). I think it's the levels, levels, levels.

I think Fix You is very fixable - I know others disagreed, but it looked to me like they really enjoyed skating it. The beginning is slow for me but I like the crescendo at the twizzles and rotational lift. I do think they have a fair amount of work to redo the step sequences, but I also think that THEY know that and are willing to put in the work.
 
M

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
The obvious weakness is the step sequences, but I don't think the FD is DOA. The other elements OTHER than the step sequences were good (the twizzles and spin in particular) and I can see that THEY like the FD, which can go a long way. And the step sequences weren't THAT bad from an aesthetic point-- just needs more difficulty.

RE: program choices. The SD actually is an example of a program that works better-- the comedic doll/doll maker relationship was fun to watch. Also the story is how the main character is ACTING like a doll to fool the dollmaker and I thought Maia did a good job playing human playing doll role. :)

ETA: Hyena, we obviously think alike. :D To bounce off your point...I think they can perform the levels better too. The amount of disappointment on their faces in the K&C during both the SD and FD tells me that. They didn't seem that surprised or shocked by the scores.

I think they are so eager to prove themselves, that maybe they psyched themselves out. It happens. It's the first competition. As Scott Hamilton says, we all fall, it's how we get up.
 
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T

tvuckic16

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Well, they are more seasoned competitors and I think they are capable of higher levels, so I do think they should be able to fix it. It is not like they haven't had higher levels before or have never skated in closed hold and don't know how to do it. Their choreography is fine but maybe they got lost in the presentation. So, I would think they can fix it, yes, fix "Fix You". I think it would be different if the problems were in the choreo or lifts or some newer not previously tried elements.
 
S

slider11

Medalist
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Really like the SD and think it has the bet chance to shine. I really hope they can fix "Fix You". I thought they both acted pretty perplexed in the K and C. Maia had her pretty smile but she just looked straight ahead once the scores were read and didn't react much. Alex kinda sarcastically laughed and shook his head. Scali looked shocked to me. I think he was expecting around 100. Definitely the step sequences need help. But they are a strong, determined team and I think will figure this out. QUOTE=Mrs. P;1237061]The obvious weakness is the step sequences, but I don't think the FD is DOA. The other elements OTHER than the step sequences were good (the twizzles and spin in particular) and I can see that THEY like the FD, which can go a long way. And the step sequences weren't THAT bad from an aesthetic point-- just needs more difficulty.

RE: program choices. The SD actually is an example of a program that works better-- the comedic doll/doll maker relationship was fun to watch. Also the story is how the main character is ACTING like a doll to fool the dollmaker and I thought Maia did a good job playing human playing doll role. :)

ETA: Hyena, we obviously think alike. :D To bounce off your point...I think they can perform the levels better too. The amount of disappointment on their faces in the K&C during both the SD and FD tells me that. They didn't seem that surprised or shocked by the scores.

I think they are so eager to prove themselves, that maybe they psyched themselves out. It happens. It's the first competition. As Scott Hamilton says, we all fall, it's how we get up.[/QUOTE]
 
T

tvuckic16

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Yes....I think they will work hard to fix it. I think Zueva's teams must all be re-evaluating after that showing.
 
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