Is Lysacek even skating? Has he been working out? Has he committed to come back to competitive skating? Does he have any GP assignments? Or is he just suddenly going to rise like a Phoenix out of the ashes and step on the ice and be great again? I have no clue what he's been doing the past 2 years. Stars on Ice? That isn't going to get him back up to a serious competitive level. That's why I made the statement. And if I were Evan - I'd walk away with my Olympic medal and smile!
And really, what does it matter what they've all done in the past. What matters is what happens when they step on that ice in front of judges this time. I'm not prescient and neither is anybody else! It's just going to be fun to watch. Johnny could very well mop up the ice and skulk off looking like a fool - but I don't think that's going to happen and I don't think he's doing this for attention. I think his intentions are real. I have no clue how he's going to do or any of the other men. Jeremy could skate another %*&%^ beautiful two programs and blow everyone out of the water at Nationals......................or not! Adam Rippon or Jason Brown or Ricky Dornbush could have the skates of their lives or someone in the lower ranks could suddenly blossom. All I'm saying is that the state of the men's team in the US right now leaves room at the top. There's no "sure thing!"
Great post and welcome to GS.
Originally Posted by noskates
Yeah, that's pretty much what I remembered. Add to that the fact that he's 27, and it makes me reluctant to pin my hopes on him, though I'd be happy for him to prove me wrong. Takahashi is about the same age, but he's been training like a demon all this time, as well as competing, plus he always had the capacity to do difficult jumps, and he has the record to prove it, including this very year.
Originally Posted by Bluebonnet
As for Evan, I don't know whether he's past his prime or not, but he hasn't been keeping up his skills at the demanding level that would be necessary, so he's a question mark as well. Again, I'd be happy to be proved wrong.
Let's just hope that Jason and Josh are the real deal because other then Jeremy there are no US men that are factors on the international scene and even he is getting older. I hold out hope for Dornbush but that's about it with the Senior US Men right now. Rippon, Miner, Armin, Razzano take your pick they are not the answer.
Last edited by Jammers; 06-21-2012 at 12:23 PM.
You're entitled to your opinion of course, but I wouldn't underestimate Ross Miner. When you look at it, he's been on an upward — though slow — trajectory.
Originally Posted by Jammers
In the GP, he went from finishing 7th and 9th at his events last year to 3rd and 6th this year. He earned his first ISU championship medal (at 4CC) and got a second bronze medal at Nationals.
This season he earned PBs at 4CC in the SP and overall and his FS from 4CC was only one point from his personal best at Worlds last year.
Ross will need a quad to be a factor, but his team clearly has a slow-but-steady strategy that seems to work.
As for Johnny Weir, I agree that regardless of how he does, it will be fun to see him back. I hope that he will surprise us with the quad, but even if he doesn't, he surely will shake things up.
Thanks for the link! As it was two-footed it does not count as a successful quad, in my opinion.
Originally Posted by Bluebonnet
Plus he is a COP master and knows what to do to win within the rules, which Weir is not, though he is making an effort, as indicated by hiring Morozov to help with his step sequence. But there is no total dedication and conviction, thus still all the preemptive rebellious claims. Takahashi, OTOH, is clear and determined on his goal, willing to do what it takes, which is carefully thought out, without ever dissing his rivals. There is a big difference in their mindsets and mental strengths.
Originally Posted by Olympia
Going with Johnny's records and recent words, competitive he is not. Not on ice. However, he has been reporting on how hard he is training these days, so it will be very interesting to see if he will be skating as well as his hay days, or better, and how COP compliant he may be.
I can't wait to see what Weir vol 2 is like - I really think his attempt at a come-back is interesting; and if Evan joins him and nationals, all the better (meanwhile, there are like at least 8 other US guys I can't wait to see too...). But just about Weir and the quad: when he was competing I always felt (post 2006ish) that he had real stamina issues or that he just lacked strength to push through programs, especially LPs, with both the tough jumps, footwork, and transitions. And, no, he does not have a good competition record of landing quads. However, his practice quads and quad triples were gorgeous. This makes me hope two things: a) that he can get the quads back in practice, and b) with the right training mix, might be able to conquer what I'm assuming are stamina (and perhaps nerve) issues to actually put them in his competitive programs.
Meanwhile, we wait...
Sheesh - I don't know why I'm defending Johnny so much but Skatefiguring, how do you KNOW that Johnny doesn't have total dedication and conviction at this time? Again - we're talking about the present, not the past! And I could very well be wrong, but the only "rival" that Johnny every dissed was Lysacek and I believe the original barb came from St. Evan himself.
It just bothers me that anyone is willing and eager to write off someone who is clearly working very, very hard to get his competitive skills back up. I think Johnny was in a very bad place the last year he competed and I want to think he's in a better place now - certainly with the US federation, his personal life, etc. And for whatever reason he's coming back, whether he has a hidden agenda, misses competition, or has something to prove to himself, I say more power to him. He's turned down appearances and lost earnings to do this so I seriously doubt it's just for attention.
I know Daisuke is very popular on this board but I'm just not in the camp that wants to deify him. But I don't wish him any ill will either. The only male skater that just fries my grits is Plushenko. If I never had to watch him skate or listen to him boast or whine again it would be wayyyyy too soon. Beyond that - the chips (or the skaters) will fall where they may!
I totally agree with you noskates. No one should count Johnny out! If Johnny got true quads, he is in for a good chance as anyone. I have always thought people places too much importance on past history instead of looking at the present and the future. If skating history taught us, is never count anyone out, and ice is a slippery game.
Johnny is a bona fide star who is capable of greatness and one of the last few at least attempt to reach new level of original artistry (regardless of whether it suit my taste). With his newly found personal happiness and fulfillment, i expect he can bring his mojo back and make a fresh new start. Yes 27 seems a tough age and he definitely faces an up hill struggle, but men's figure skating need someone like Johnny to rough the feathers a bit, otherwise it is too boring to watch. He makes up more personality for the entire USA team + Russia. With Plushy coming back, Evan arch nemisis too, Men's tournament is going to be super exciting next year. With the old guards vs the new crop of challengers.
I for one can't wait to see how Hanyu compete against him, and the degree of their subtle differences and similarity. It would be totally fun to comparing them! Original vs. New improved? Vs Johnny 2.0? Wish him the best and look forward to the showdown. I just want him to beat Evan regardless of medals.
Last edited by os168; 06-21-2012 at 08:03 PM.
Well said os168.
Originally Posted by os168
The thing for me is that Johnny has little to gain, from a financial standpoint, to coming back. He long built a brand for himself outside of skating — pretty much all my non-skater friends could identify Johnny but yet not know much about Evan, even if he's the current OGM in figure skating — so I don't see why Johnny would need to invest all this time in a comeback if there wasn't some desire to compete.
noskates, I never write anyone off. Also I try to see things as they are, regardless of my fandom. Lysacek, e.g. is not my cup of tea in skating style, personality, or looks, but I acknowledge his competitiveness and his success. I don't care for Morozov either, but I did look at his records and other facts and figured he must have a lot to offer his students, as I said so when Dai's fans were angsting about his reunion with Daisuke. FWIW, I'm pretty hated by some of Daisuke's fans in this forum.
As for competition results, I believe it's up to the skaters to bring it on the ice on the day, whatever leading up to the competition, no matter the talents, hard work, reputation, health, emotional state, and least of all, personal fandoms. We choose whom we like, win or loose, but we don't determine who wins or loses.
I was an instant fan of Johnny when I watched him the first time a few years ago. With his posture and carriage, he was really an ice prince. As I found out more about his quirkiness, I thought he was a really interesting character. The personality has worn out for me and I don't care for his show programs. Anybody can love his personality and show programs as they wish, but he is coming back to competition, so we are discussing him in terms of competitiveness and the possibilities of his delivering what he promises. As usual, people project the future by looking at the past while taking into consideration current status of things. Quite a few who are being realistic about Johnny's prospects like to be proven wrong as well.
The main reason I don't think he is as dedicated as someone like Takahashi is how he lacks conviction in his talks, hedging with talks about federation support and scoring system, being ambivalent about medalling and compliance with COP, etc. In contrast, Patrick and Daisuke are always clear about their goals. They talk about improving themselves and they do it. They adapt positively whatever situation they find themselves in and they always take responsibilities for themselves. Their success support my belief that they have the winners' mindset.
Ahhhhhh - Skatefiguring. We have MUCH MUCH more in common than I would have thought at first. Let me count the ways:
o I try to see things as they are, regardless of my fandom
o Lysacek, e.g. is not my cup of tea in skating style, personality, or looks
I might add that I think he's arrogant and pompous!
o FWIW, I'm pretty hated by some of Daisuke's fans in this forum.
I'm pretty certain I would be as well if I posted what I really thought!
And your last paragraph, I can understand where you're coming from. But I don't think Johnny is too introspective or glib! He doesn't "play the game" of being the good little skater boy who says all the right things. And that's purposeful on his part! And you very well may be right that his commitment to this comeback is different than Dai's or Patrick's. But both of those guys have colored within the lines all along. I would expect them to say the right things. I never know what's going to come out of Johnny's mouth and neither does he half the time.
I've enjoyed this discussion. And I think we'll have alot to talk about once the GP's start. I think if nothing else, honestly, Johnny is going to generate interest that seems to have been lacking since the Olympics.
Just one more little note - I disagree with whomever didn't feel Adam Rippon was a contender (my words) I watched Adam at the practice rink in San Jose and then, of course, the competition. He has a fluid motion when he skates, a very tight rotation in his jumps, and with the right choreography and something a little more uplifting and less dreary in his music selection, I think he's right in there for the US. I look forward to watching him this year.
Go Keegan Messing, US Nationals Champion 2013! (hey I can dream)