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Thread: Comebacks: Ando, Kim, Plushenko, Weir, etc.

  1. #91
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    Frank carroll says Lysacek can do quads triples with no problem. If he can do quad triples with no problem than he is going to win everything and gold again in sochi.

  2. #92
    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Frank carroll says Lysacek can do quads triples with no problem. If he can do quad triples with no problem than he is going to win everything and gold again in sochi.
    we must remember this is what Frank was saying going into Nationals 2010.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinymavy15 View Post
    we must remember this is what Frank was saying going into Nationals 2010.
    He was saying a lot of stuff. "Quads are important. Quads are mandatory for Olympic judges." Scott Hamilton was all "Oh my Lysacek is doing the best quads in practice I've ever seen!" in 2010 during nationals. But a fall meant 0 points for Lysacek when he fell on a ured quad when he fell down very badly and poorly and then quads were not important anymore. What if he comes back with quads but injures his foot. Or he injures his foot but can do quads. Or the foot was never a problem with quads. Because he certainly risked a quad in 2010 nationals right before the Olympics so that was interesting. Now the quads are back. If they are not back what if he can still win without a quad. Will he plan quads in SP and LP or just LP? I will be most interestied in the jump layouts. This has got me surprisingly nervous. His program that won him the Olympics in 2010 and made him reigning gold medalist for 4 years like it did Kim Yu-Na and Virtue and moir is worth less but what if he can still get the same points from the all judges.

  4. #94
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
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    It is thrilling, trying for team USA, Weir, Evan, Rippon, Abbott, Armin, Miner, Dornbush and more...Skating will be uber exciting...just wish it got tv coverage.

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    Still-can any of the US men get a quad and 3A in the short, and two quads, two 3A's in the free? Plus do everything else?

    None of these US men have ever done that.

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    Nor has Patrick Chan.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Frank carroll says Lysacek can do quads triples with no problem. If he can do quad triples with no problem than he is going to win everything and gold again in sochi.
    Sure if Chan falls 7 times, and Japanese men all fall numerous times, if Plushenko goes back to doing programs with no transitions and barely landing his jumps, and a bunch of other things happen.

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    The only skater I can see being remotedly successful in a comeback is Kim and that is only if she starts training her backside off again. Ando, Weir, Lysacek will all flop in their comebacks, and not be in contention at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Sure if Chan falls 7 times, and Japanese men all fall numerous times, if Plushenko goes back to doing programs with no transitions and barely landing his jumps, and a bunch of other things happen.
    Few thought it was possible from 2006 to 2010 that the winner of the Olympics in 2010 in mens skating could do so without a quad. Lysacek will play to the system in an extreme way while probably leaving out a quad and judges will give him wins like they gave him a world title, GPF title, Olympic title and made him a major success. He didn't change one thing about his program from 2009 worlds to 2010 Olympics and it worked so he will come back probably start winning again. There have been rule changes but the olympic champion has not skated under them yet.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Few thought it was possible from 2006 to 2010 that the winner of the Olympics in 2010 in mens skating could do so without a quad. Lysacek will play to the system in an extreme way while probably leaving out a quad and judges will give him wins like they gave him a world title, GPF title, Olympic title and made him a major success. He didn't change one thing about his program from 2009 worlds to 2010 Olympics and it worked so he will come back probably start winning again. There have been rule changes but the olympic champion has not skated under them yet.
    Your posts are always good for a huge laugh. I honestly dont think you are crazy so I will just presume you are purposely going out of your way to be comical. Just like your posts before this season proclaiming the Shibutanis were a lock to medal at every Worlds until 2018, and a lock to medal at the 2014 Olympics, medal at the 2012 Worlds, win the 2018 Olympics, possibly winning both the 2014 and 2018 Olympics. I should have known then you were a bot looking to just make people laugh.

    Evan won the 2009 Worlds and 2010 Olympics since the level of skating was so low. He won without a quad since there wasnt anyone who both had a quad and wasnt falling or stumbling all over the ice, or whose overall skating wasnt total rubbage (Van Der Perren, even Vancouver version of Plushenko). Evan at his best was scoring over 160 points. Chan at his best scores over 200 points, and with major falls and errors scores over 180. Even with a quad Evan couldnt come close to Chan unless Chan skates half the program on his rear, and I am no Chan fan. Chan does everything better than Evan now, even if he werent doing quads, so how can Evan compete with him. Takahashi skating his best would easily beat Evan even with quads too, never mind without, and Hanyu is pulling in huge TES from the judges and inflated PCS. Evans Vancouver LP, in a competition that clearly had inflated scoring as Yu Nas scores and the mens short program scores reflects, were much lower than 3 men from Worlds last year. The field isnt going to start getting weaker. A skater who struggles with both quads and triple axels and waves his arm like a windmall isnt going to win titles just by virtue of not falling anymore. Unless he shows up with things he never had before, not just quads, he wont even be a contender, and will be fighting just to get out of a weak U.S mens field.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Your posts are always good for a huge laugh. I honestly dont think you are crazy so I will just presume you are purposely going out of your way to be comical. Just like your posts before this season proclaiming the Shibutanis were a lock to medal at every Worlds until 2018, and a lock to medal at the 2014 Olympics, medal at the 2012 Worlds, win the 2018 Olympics, possibly winning both the 2014 and 2018 Olympics. I should have known then you were a bot looking to just make people laugh.

    Evan won the 2009 Worlds and 2010 Olympics since the level of skating was so low. He won without a quad since there wasnt anyone who both had a quad and wasnt falling or stumbling all over the ice, or whose overall skating wasnt total rubbage (Van Der Perren, even Vancouver version of Plushenko). Evan at his best was scoring over 160 points. Chan at his best scores over 200 points, and with major falls and errors scores over 180. Even with a quad Evan couldnt come close to Chan unless Chan skates half the program on his rear, and I am no Chan fan. Chan does everything better than Evan now, even if he werent doing quads, so how can Evan compete with him. Takahashi skating his best would easily beat Evan even with quads too, never mind without, and Hanyu is pulling in huge TES from the judges and inflated PCS. Evans Vancouver LP, in a competition that clearly had inflated scoring as Yu Nas scores and the mens short program scores reflects, were much lower than 3 men from Worlds last year. The field isnt going to start getting weaker. A skater who struggles with both quads and triple axels and waves his arm like a windmall isnt going to win titles just by virtue of not falling anymore. Unless he shows up with things he never had before, not just quads, he wont even be a contender, and will be fighting just to get out of a weak U.S mens field.
    I did not think the Shibutani's would forget how to twizzle! LOL. Their performance at 2012 worlds was bizarre because it was such an extreme technical failure. But even being an extreme technical failure that did not include a twizzle in a FS they still did not collapse in the standings. They made it to the GPF and things were basically going well until worlds where they forgot how to twizzle.

    People believed quads would be important to win in Vancouver. They were not. They were irrelevent to winning the Olympics. Totally meaningless and Lysacek won. I would not underestimate Lysacek and the ways COP can be worked for his advantage that maybe other people don't see. Maybe if you structure a program a certain way quads might be irrelevent to skating again. Lots of things are worth more in skating now. Step sequences. 3A is worth some more points. PCS is rising almost to max levels and Lysacek was good at getting high PCS and with the PCS inflation of recent years maybe his scores will rise with the PCS and 3A and other things.

  12. #102
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    I thought there was a good chance of a quadless champion in Vancouver, and it could have been any of Lysacek, Chan, Oda, or a number of others. As I said who was doing quads who didnt suck overall as a skater. Only an old Plushenko who was skating awful programs and clearly poorly prepared, although he still would have won if he didnt struggle to hold onto every jump in his long program.

    Today there is no chance of a quadless champion. The caliber of skating is way too high for that. For a skater to hope for the Sochi gold it would require atleast 3 quads, 2 in the long, 1 in the short, tremendous presentation, superior to what Evan has ever had in fact, top quality elements on all of jumps, spins, and footwork, and Chan falling atleast twice, probably more.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Today there is no chance of a quadless champion. The caliber of skating is way too high for that. For a skater to hope for the Sochi gold it would require atleast 3 quads, 2 in the long, 1 in the short, tremendous presentation, superior to what Evan has ever had in fact, top quality elements on all of jumps, spins, and footwork, and Chan falling atleast twice, probably more.
    I think this is reasonable until the second last comma. Lysacek, at his best, is only competitive with the second half of the top 10 in the world now. But I think if he really shows up at SA, he should be competitive there. In US, the "successful comeback" title should belong to Lysacek if both he and Weir really come back.
    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 08-10-2012 at 02:57 PM.

  14. #104
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    welcome back and good luck

  15. #105
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    ok, well anyway, Evan is such a hard worker, I think he will be competitive as he is consistent and does not suffer from nerves at the big events. I think the judges will have their other favorites. For sentimental Oly champ, Evgeni can expect points if he does well. He doesn't need to be fantastic, just good, to be overscored on home turf. This will hurt Evan as returning OGM. And now the judges have others they wish to reward. Expect Chanflation to continue. He does not have to be stupendous to win, just do what he normally does. He is the favorite and he if healthy does well later in season. He is hard to beat, nearly impossible, really. But anything can happen. The other US men do not have nerves of steel. Rippon and Abbott should be on world podiums with their beautiful skating, but are chokers. Johnny Weir never does in competition what he can do 80% in practice. Look for Johnny to have some fave points if he makes the US to Sochi team. That would be huge for him. I dont expect Weir to hold up under Oly pressure and changing his style and choreo to CoP will be hard. It is like destroying the beautiful basics that judges like him for (and everyone else). Yuna with the two hardest 3x3 combinations should win again, if she is in Vancouver form. Only the Russians and maybe Mao will challenge. I'd like to say Ashley could, but she does not have the speed, nor Yuna's huge fully rotated (usually) jumps. So Yuna in top form could do this, if she is training hard.

    I expect to see a Russian male and female on podium for sure. If Evgeni's body gives our, Artur will likely be a political bronze if he skates very well. I don't think Miki does well with Olympic pressure, and Mao needs to have the right vehicles this time. Right now I put my money on Yuna and Chan for gold. But Tut or one of the surging Russian teens may knock her out. It is great to see these people back if only at nationals. More fun for us. I wonder if Ashley can keep up her streak onward and upward and not fall apart at her first Oly if she does get there. Gracie Gold has so much hype, but she might peak around Sochi. She needs a lot of polishing to go with the jumping prowess to be a big event medalist. Can't wait to see her this season.
    Last edited by skateluvr; 08-10-2012 at 03:50 PM.

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