The ten best figure skaters who never won an olympic medal

blue dog · Jul 9, 2012

Olympia said:
Illness can also be a factor. One skater we haven't mentioned was world bronze medalist Caryn Kadavy, who had the flu right at the Olympics and couldn't skate at all. Poor thing; she was a delightful skater with ballet training who stood a good chance of making at least the top five. That was her only Olympics and so her only chance at a medal. But she had a long and illustrious pro career and was always a joy to watch.

That reminds me of another world bronze medalist-- Tanja Szewczenko. World bronze in 1994, and because she had beaten Baiul and some other top contenders throughout her career, much was expected of her. Then she was ill throughout 96-97 with a blood disorder. Came back in early 1997 winning almost everything. People expected her to contend for a medal in Nagano, but, like Cadavy, she caught the flu during the Olympics.

Poodlepal · Jul 10, 2012

Hmm. These would be my categories.

Dominant at Worlds, but something happened at the Olympics.
Men:
1. Kurt. The standard bearer for this category.
2. Todd. The second standard bearer for this category.

Women:
3. Surya Bonaly. Say what you want about her edges, I always liked her! She's like the opposite of Patrick Chan, and she did medal a lot in the 90s.

4. Miki Ando. There's still some hope left for her, so she's an associate member of the list. How many times has she been the World Champion now? Two or three?

These people were not as dominating as the preceding, but had shorter peaks between Olympic years.
Men:

5. Michael Weiss. Medalist in 99 and 00, but no Olympics those years, unfortunately.
6. Brian Joubert. Still hope for him, too. He may belong on the other list, it's hard to know where to draw the line.

Women:
7. Maria Butyrskaya. Also hit her peak between Olympics, and wasn't as good by the time they came around.

8. Tonya. Had the Olympics been a year earlier, before she gained some weight and had problems with that husband of hers, how different her life would have been.

People who had medals practically with their names on them, but blew it.

9. Johnny Weir. If he hadn't partied with Russians and missed the bus, he'd be the 2006 silver or bronze medalist.

10. Hmm. I'm going to give it to Fusar-Poli and Margaglio, the Italian ice dancers who fell and had a fight.

blue dog · Jul 10, 2012

Poodlepal said:
Hmm. These would be my categories.

Dominant at Worlds, but something happened at the Olympics.
Men:
1. Kurt. The standard bearer for this category.
2. Todd. The second standard bearer for this category.

In 3rd, I would put Emmerich Danzer of Austria, who dominated at worlds in the late 60's (I wasn't around for this):

http://youtu.be/kQ61-JQ3Svg He took first in the free skate at the Olympics, but lost to Wolfgang Schwarz: http://youtu.be/ulo1_Qzpq2I

Buttercup · Jul 10, 2012

Poodlepal said:
Dominant at Worlds, but something happened at the Olympics.
Men:
1. Kurt. The standard bearer for this category.
2. Todd. The second standard bearer for this category.
...

These people were not as dominating as the preceding, but had shorter peaks between Olympic years.
Men:

5. Michael Weiss. Medalist in 99 and 00, but no Olympics those years, unfortunately.
6. Brian Joubert. Still hope for him, too. He may belong on the other list, it's hard to know where to draw the line.
...

10. Hmm. I'm going to give it to Fusar-Poli and Margaglio, the Italian ice dancers who fell and had a fight.

1.

Blades of Passion said:
Eldredge and Joubert actually have the exact same medal count at Worlds - 1 Gold, 3 Silver, 2 Bronze. And, yeah, 3 trips to Olympics without medals.

Joubert has his many Euros medals, too, though of course Todd didn't have 4CC to compete in for most of his career.

2. Fusar-Poli and Margaglio were the bronze medalists in SLC.

I think it's obvious that Kurt Browning is well ahead of the other non-medalists and basically should have his own list. But the nice thing about Kurt is that his lack of success at the Olympics doesn't define who he is today; he's had an amazing career and is one of the all time greats. I'd add Joubert, Eldredge and Carolina Kostner to the list, and a whole bunch of ice dancers.

Pepe Nero · Jul 10, 2012

Olympia said:
I think it's not so much that they fell afoul of the law that would make me list them separately, but rather the fact that they all wasted such extraordinary natural talent. This was going on way before any of them got involved with illegal activity. These three skaters seem to have trained sporadically, eaten carelessly, and generally not applied themselves with forceful consistency.

By contrast, the other skaters we've been mentioning have almost invariably been hard workers and focused competitors, but factors such as injury, a more formidable competitor, judging decisions, or just bad luck on the crucial night have kept them from the Olympic podium. Bobek, Harding, and Bowman made their own bad luck, unfortunately.

Illness can also be a factor. One skater we haven't mentioned was world bronze medalist Caryn Kadavy, who had the flu right at the Olympics and couldn't skate at all. Poor thing; she was a delightful skater with ballet training who stood a good chance of making at least the top five. That was her only Olympics and so her only chance at a medal. But she had a long and illustrious pro career and was always a joy to watch.

I guess I don't quite understanding the reasoning behind wanting to exclude Harding, Bobek, and Bowman from the list "best skaters who never won an Olympic medal." I understand that they purportedly did not train as consistently or apply themselves as much, etc. My question is: why is this relevant to whether or not they should be on the same list as everyone else?

As your comment indicates, Olympia, there are all sorts of reasons some great skaters never got an Olympic medal. I don't get why reasons of a certain kind are being singled-out, in other words. My own perspective is that a skater is less worthy of this list if they missed the Olympic podium because there were three other competitors who were just better than them (not just on that night, but in that year).

Also, I think Harding is a different case from that of Bobek and Bowman. Sure, Harding could have trained more consistently, not smoked, and so on. But I think Harding was a skater who was generally disfavored by judges (well before the scandal), both for her working-class appearance and for her lack of traditional feminine delicacy.

Olympia · Jul 10, 2012

I don't think we're saying (at least I'm not saying) that Harding, Bobek, and Bowman don't belong on the list with everyone else. It's more like when we think of them, we feel a pang that is sharper than mere regret. The other skaters mentioned have given great pleasure in their careers because they did their best; their best just didn't happen to come during the Olympics. With these three, there were several times in their careers where one could see them just throwing it away, and because of their high level of natural gifts, that was especially painful to contemplate.

As for Harding, I've thought about judges' perception of her since reading a Ms. Magazine article making the point that Kerrigan was favored because she was "swanlike" (don't remember if that word was used, but something like that was referenced) and Harding was too forceful. But in fact, most of the time when Harding did less well, it was because she had lost her jumps because of lack of training or other lapses, and without her jumps, there was nothing to recommend her in such an illustrious field. Remember who was skating against her at the time: not only Kerrigan but Yamaguchi and Ito, and later Szewcenko, Chen Lu, and Baiul, among others. So to say that the judges were against Harding takes away from the tough decisions that they had to make at that time. I haven't analyzed each competitor's skating in detail, so I could be wrong, but in memory I see them all skating superbly, and as Yamaguchi got stronger, Harding got more erratic. That's not to say that Harding was awful, but as is often pointed out, it's crowded at the top.

Jammers · Jul 10, 2012

Harding was basically done by 1992. She made it to the top at least in the US in 1991 but didn't keep getting better or even stay in shape to stay there. She was her own worst enemy no one else did it too her.

hrmsk8ngnutt · Jul 10, 2012

Caryn Kadavy (I can't believe no one has mentioned her....). She was the reigning World bronze medalist and did make it to the Calgary games. She was able to skate her short http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57AXUFZ_Vho, but was stricken with the flu and had to withdraw from the free skate

Who knows how different the results would have been if she had been able to skate....

For your viewing pleasure, here is her spectacular skate from 1987 Worlds (with UK commentary) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD5Xsuk440k

blue dog · Jul 10, 2012

hrmsk8ngnutt said:
Caryn Kadavy (I can't believe no one has mentioned her....). She was the reigning World bronze medalist and did make it to the Calgary games. She was able to skate her short http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57AXUFZ_Vho, but was stricken with the flu and had to withdraw from the free skate Who knows how different the results would have been if she had been able to skate....

For your viewing pleasure, here is her spectacular skate from 1987 Worlds (with UK commentary) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD5Xsuk440k

From the same Olympics, here is Christopher Bowman's short: http://youtu.be/O554UcXCDW8

Caryn Kadavy was mentioned in the second page of this thread.

Adding another person to the list: Alexander Fadeev

skateluvr · Jul 10, 2012

I loved Kadavy, and due to my awareness, I knew her as a comeback pro after the whack. I knew she had one world Bronze. I have seen it on youtube. I did not ever know she got sick in Calgary. One only wonders with Debi blowing the long. I much prefer her to the German Tanje who I recall was sick a lot. Tonya H was more than a jumper, weight or no weight, she was en par with the spirals, good spins, a very decent layback, beter than MK's. For many years . Tonya was Mk's idol til the whack. It then became Boitano. She and Midori were the first to compete the triple axel. Tonya was very good, could have been great, and her jump prowess and the rest puts her way ahead on my list than Tanje or even Cayrn, balletic as she was (and her mother). She could have kept skating but I think she married a dermatologist and had kids. Her pro careeer shows a far more complete skater.

Isn't is incredible Tonya made millionaires of post 1994 skaters and did not profit at all, just as they ISU/Usfsa demanded? It is the saddest skater story I can think of, the Mother, the abuse, the talent and believers were not enough. Mother is all, I have said before, esp in a sport like skating. And Nancy, due to luck and love from so many did rise above again and again.

She is on my "people who should have a gold olympic medal list." Another thread.

Victura · Jul 10, 2012

blue dog said:
Adding another person to the list: Alexander Fadeev

Ah, thank you for mentioning him. Such a natural jumper if there was one, and quite underrated IMO given his 4 World medals (1 win, 3 bronze) and 6 Euro medals (including 4 wins). He placed 4th in the 1988 Olympics though, so was pretty close to medaling.

(Somewhat OT, but a few years ago, Sasha actually taught the group lessons I was enrolled in in the Chicago area, much to my surprise. He still had some huge doubles.)

iluvtodd · Jul 11, 2012

Victura said:
Although not my favorite skater, Todd Eldredge comes close to this - one Worlds win, 3 silvers, and one bronze. Three trips to the Olympics (same as Kurt and Brian) and no medals. Todd referred to Brian as his "French brother" in a tweet during Worlds this year; I wonder if it's because of this.

Aw ... that's priceless!

I didn't follow fs thoroughly back in the early 1980's, except for the Olympics, so knowing the info posted about Denise Beillmann, I would definitely add her to my list. She is an amazing pro skater!

mskater93 · Jul 11, 2012

Victura said:
(Somewhat OT, but a few years ago, Sasha actually taught the group lessons I was enrolled in in the Chicago area, much to my surprise. He still had some huge doubles.)

Hehe, I was going to post that he was giving a lesson one morning at our rink and was bored because his skater wasn't listening so he whipped off a 2A from a standstill in his teaching clothes (heavy coat, ski pants, etc).

I put Harding, Bowman, and Bobek in a separate category because I felt they did it to themselves in a different way than some of the other skaters mentioned did it to themselves (a fall, slightly holding back, someone have the SOHL to keep the 4th place skater off the podium, illness,etc).

Harding in my mind was one of the two most naturally physically talented female skaters ever (Ito was the other in my opinion and it will be a long time until the sport sees ladies who are THAT physically gifted again) and to see her waste that talent with coach hopping, poor training habits and getting involved with a doofus for a husband who gave her bad advice and orchestrated a crime on her behalf just irritates me more than I can say.

Bowman was another that just threw everything away for drugs and alcohol. He was one of the most naturally gifted performers I've ever seen and when he was even half trained could blow 99% of the field away (as evidenced by his world medals and his top 5 showing at the 88 Olympics with minimal exposure and fair at best figures). It's a shame that he had family issues beyond the drugs and alcohol that didn't allow him to have a strong support network and tough love to keep him from those vices.

Bobek, well, her latest issues have been well documented, but she was another naturally talented skater who coach hopped and didn't train. I don't think she was *quite* as naturally talented as the other two, but she WAS very talented and when working with Richard C, proved it.

blue dog · Jul 11, 2012

Skating-wise, Tonya was my idol, pre and post whack. I will always wonder what she could have done, had the people around her not distracted her. To me, I don't think she loved the sport enough. She loved winning, the notoriety it brought her, and, yes, the money. To me, if she truly loved the sport, she would've told her mother, Gillooly and all the bad influences to back off, and concentrated on her skating.

I mean, imagine--Tonya's ability coupled with Michelle's love for skating. Add Katarina's competitiveness and you'll have someone unbeatable. Coulda woulda shoulda...right?

Tonichelle · Jul 11, 2012

Before the whack Tonya was my favorite ladies skater, and I agree with your post, Blue Dog... I was devastated when she allowed the win to be so important that she put it above skating, others, and herself. :no: I still haven't gotten ove that "betrayal".

Poodlepal · Jul 11, 2012

I forgot all about Fusar-Poli and partner's bronze medal! I'll have to change it to--well, I'm not sure. Maybe Elaine Zayak, another one who seemed to peak between the four year cycle.

Neither of the three "criminal" skaters were a lock to win a medal. Their personal lives had kept them from reaching their highest levels even before the Olympics. I would put them in a different category, maybe "Skaters who partied too much" and maybe throw in Johnny as an associate member.

What's interesting is how far you could go with pure talent back then. These three didn't train as hard as they should have, most agree, yet they all won world medals and two almost got bronze medals at the Olympics. Somehow, I imagine it was only possible in that era. Can you imagine Tonya practicing to get level 3445 footwork? Or trying to do 4839 positions in her spin? She'd probably give up and go get a beer or maybe shoot some pool. :laugh:

I don't think either of those characters would do well under the new nit-picky rules.

Olympia · Jul 11, 2012

mskater93 said:
Hehe, I was going to post that he was giving a lesson one morning at our rink and was bored because his skater wasn't listening so he whipped off a 2A from a standstill in his teaching clothes (heavy coat, ski pants, etc).

I put Harding, Bowman, and Bobek in a separate category because I felt they did it to themselves in a different way than some of the other skaters mentioned did it to themselves (a fall, slightly holding back, someone have the SOHL to keep the 4th place skater off the podium, illness,etc).

Harding in my mind was one of the two most naturally physically talented female skaters ever (Ito was the other in my opinion and it will be a long time until the sport sees ladies who are THAT physically gifted again) and to see her waste that talent with coach hopping, poor training habits and getting involved with a doofus for a husband who gave her bad advice and orchestrated a crime on her behalf just irritates me more than I can say.

Yes, I'm sure there are countless skaters who work their duffs off who would give anything for half the natural talent that these three basically let seep away. Very frustrating, and ultimately sad, with or without the lawbreaking element.

As for Fedeev--what a great story! The moment where he impressed me the most was a pro team competition where he skated to "Le Veau D'Or," an aria from Gounod's Faust. He was just lightning: splendid jumps, great personality. I'm glad he's coaching, because he had gorgeous technique. I couldn't find "Le Veau D'Or," but here's a link to a pro piece he did:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6Ha5tMYuJk

blue dog · Jul 11, 2012

Tonichelle said:
Before the whack Tonya was my favorite ladies skater, and I agree with your post, Blue Dog... I was devastated when she allowed the win to be so important that she put it above skating, others, and herself. :no: I still haven't gotten ove that "betrayal".

The love of attention reminded me of another "could've-been-great"-- Emanuel Sandhu. He could've been...

skateluvr · Jul 11, 2012

If the list were top twenty, maybe manny could be squeezed in, but his inconsistency caused him to lose so many comps he had the talent to win. Jeffrey Buttle may belong in the top 10 as a wonderful skater and deserving WC. Nah, sorry, disagree Manny belongs on this list. As inventor of the butt spin, he surely was different, elegant and special. So frustrating. Sasha Cohen might be his female eqivalent, though Sasha was a better competitor results wise for sure. Manny is a great Canadian who just was not a competitive animal.

Olympia · Jul 11, 2012

skateluvr said:
If the list were top twenty, maybe manny could be squeezed in, but his inconsistency caused him to lose so many comps he had the talent to win. Jeffrey Buttle may belong in the top 10 as a wonderful skater and deserving WC. Nah, sorry, disagree Manny belongs on this list. As inventor of the butt spin, he surely was different, elegant and special. So frustrating. Sasha Cohen might be his female eqivalent, though Sasha was a better competitor results wise for sure. Manny is a great Canadian who just was not a competitive animal.

I'd have to say that Sandhu's female equivalent is Alissa: same miraculously beautiful aspects to the skating, same total inconsistency, varying between splendid and devastating. (Sasha actually has a pretty sparkling national and international competitive record, generally finishing in the top five and often on the podium.) Frustratingly, Sandhu didn't just have artistry. He had jumps! He even had a quad, which is something a lot of our faves (insert name here) never achieved in international competition. I think you're right, skateluvr: Sandhu just wasn't a competitive animal. But could he move. He's one of those gifted people who could make music seem like a living thing. Glad I got to see him.

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