Thornhill Summer Skate 2012, August 16-19 | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Thornhill Summer Skate 2012, August 16-19

slipslidin

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Paul is strong like tractor, I'd never deny that.
Too bad there are no archives for Thornhill, because there was an interesting performance by a very new junior team, Penkow/Proulx-Senecal. He, with his former partner, was eleventh at Canadians this year, and they caught my eye then, because of his good performance quality. She was skating novice last year, and is so bendy that I would bet she came from the world of rythmic gymnastics. If you want to see extreme splits and all other bendy moves, just wait for next year. They are a nice looking couple, too.
 

Skatie

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
I don't think Proulx-Senecal has any more years left in Junior tho. This is the dilema in Quebec. Most of their boys are 20-21. This is why I suspect they are really pushing the Mengs this year.
 

slipslidin

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
I believe this will be his last year in Junior, but my guess is they'll be a much improved couple next year, and pretty entertaining.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
G/P have improved massively from Nationals last year. Very impressed. Don't care for the program at all, but the improvement is notable. Hated that spin, but the cantaliever into the curve lift? Definite win.
 

colleen o'neill

Medalist
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
I agree they are much improved, and I did like that one spin position with her low and him high .. and I also like the extended leg twizzle doris mentioned..Again , I thought many of the lifts were impressive, but I'm one who's been very happy that programs, in general , are no longer one lift after another after another , so this program leaves me a bit apprehensive..I'm OK with the music, and have always liked that last piece.
 

twizzgirl

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 30, 2011
Paul is strong like tractor, I'd never deny that.
Too bad there are no archives for Thornhill, because there was an interesting performance by a very new junior team, Penkow/Proulx-Senecal. He, with his former partner, was eleventh at Canadians this year, and they caught my eye then, because of his good performance quality. She was skating novice last year, and is so bendy that I would bet she came from the world of rythmic gymnastics. If you want to see extreme splits and all other bendy moves, just wait for next year. They are a nice looking couple, too.
here are Penkov/Proulx-senecal programs from the qc summer competition
SD
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/24611128/theater
FD
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/24634358/theater
 
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slipslidin

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
They were already improved by Thornhill, but the thing is that seeing them first rather decreased the wow factor of Piper's exteme splits.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
I agree they are much improved, and I did like that one spin position with her low and him high .. and I also like the extended leg twizzle doris mentioned..Again , I thought many of the lifts were impressive, but I'm one who's been very happy that programs, in general , are no longer one lift after another after another , so this program leaves me a bit apprehensive..I'm OK with the music, and have always liked that last piece.

Oh, it's not a great dance program. In terms of the match between body and blade, movement and music, it's nothing. I'm just glad that there is some technical improvement.
 

emdee

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
IP totally agree with you thats why I was disappointed at the Gala.
I felt they need to put in more traditional dancey elements if they want to stand up and be counted.
 

NorthernDancers

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Thanks for posting the videos from BC and Thornhill!

For G/P this video is much easier to catch the flavour than the one from the Scarboro gala.

There are a number of things they do well: innovative lifts, innovative spin, energy, attack, speed. They clearly enjoy skating together, and have a lot of presence on the ice. They are fun to watch.

This does not make them a great competitive ice dance team yet. There are way too many cross-cuts and too much 2-foot skating, the elements are not tied together smoothly, they are missing matching angles, lines and edges (the pictures tell the tale on this), the 2nd step sequence especially looked like she was struggling to keep up with him, there is not a lot of finishing movements or focus on the dance. To me, not unlike last year, it looked more like a modified pairs program than a dance program. We are missing the dance.

Last year, the Canadian judges seemed to completely ignore the realities of this situation, perhaps mesmerized by costumes, speed and tricks. And we saw ridiculous marks in Thornhill as well. I'm hoping the international judges will set this straight and have some more perspective. I don't see a problem with good marks on the tricks/elements themselves when they are well executed. I have a real issue seeing 8's and 9's on the PCS side when the skating and team basics are weak or missing entirely. As a team, G/P need to work on the basics in order to deserve those kinds of marks. My fear is that the over-marking of last year has sent a message to them that they can bypass/short-circuit this with energy, speed and flash. An even greater fear is that they will continue to get over-rewarded for this.


To me, I was very impressed with R/H. Of all the Senior teams competing this past weekend, I think they have improved the most. Their SD was really very good. The polka was very well executed, and they had some great dancing. They had good lines, edges, unison.....quality skating. I even sorta liked their costumes. I'm really looking forward to their FD. If they continue their improvements and development, they will definitely be in the running for 3rd at Nationals.

I was also pleased to see P/I back to their former selves. It was painful to watch last year. I'm happy to see they will remain in Detroit beyond the Summer. Comparing these 2 with G/P, they really are opposites. P/I are all smooth lines, soft knees, unison, close skating, beautiful edges, intricate choreography, understated charm, elegance. They are missing attack, energy and speed. I'm hoping that their time in Detroit will help them find this over the season. They are dancers. They just need some confidence, power, and speed - perhaps an easier hill to climb than the mountain in front of G/P. I think the 3rd spot is going to be an interesting 3-way battle between G/P, P/I and R/H at Nationals.

I did not include O/W in that battle for 3rd. I think it is likely they will remain in the same spot after the season is over. I didn't catch their FD, but from the SD, I don't see a ton of improvement. The concept and packaging of the SD is wonderful (small point, I love her hair, and hope she loses the pig tails in the future). It suits them perfectly for sure. They can skate fast, and are clearly having fun. But again, there is a ton of 2-foot skating, a real lack of innovative connecting choreography, not much range in emotion and presentation and general shakiness (especially on his part). I don't like all the different music cuts. Is this a rule in the SD as well? Can they not just use 1 or 2 pieces of music? It makes the program choppy. I'm eager to see their FD. I'm hoping I see more in terms of mature skating, quality lines and finishing movements, more depth of expression, more intricate choregraphy, and so on.
 

skatingfan04

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 1, 2007
Thanks for posting the videos from BC and Thornhill!

For G/P this video is much easier to catch the flavour than the one from the Scarboro gala.

There are a number of things they do well: innovative lifts, innovative spin, energy, attack, speed. They clearly enjoy skating together, and have a lot of presence on the ice. They are fun to watch.

This does not make them a great competitive ice dance team yet. There are way too many cross-cuts and too much 2-foot skating, the elements are not tied together smoothly, they are missing matching angles, lines and edges (the pictures tell the tale on this), the 2nd step sequence especially looked like she was struggling to keep up with him, there is not a lot of finishing movements or focus on the dance. To me, not unlike last year, it looked more like a modified pairs program than a dance program. We are missing the dance.

Last year, the Canadian judges seemed to completely ignore the realities of this situation, perhaps mesmerized by costumes, speed and tricks. And we saw ridiculous marks in Thornhill as well. I'm hoping the international judges will set this straight and have some more perspective. I don't see a problem with good marks on the tricks/elements themselves when they are well executed. I have a real issue seeing 8's and 9's on the PCS side when the skating and team basics are weak or missing entirely. As a team, G/P need to work on the basics in order to deserve those kinds of marks. My fear is that the over-marking of last year has sent a message to them that they can bypass/short-circuit this with energy, speed and flash. An even greater fear is that they will continue to get over-rewarded for this.


To me, I was very impressed with R/H. Of all the Senior teams competing this past weekend, I think they have improved the most. Their SD was really very good. The polka was very well executed, and they had some great dancing. They had good lines, edges, unison.....quality skating. I even sorta liked their costumes. I'm really looking forward to their FD. If they continue their improvements and development, they will definitely be in the running for 3rd at Nationals.

I was also pleased to see P/I back to their former selves. It was painful to watch last year. I'm happy to see they will remain in Detroit beyond the Summer. Comparing these 2 with G/P, they really are opposites. P/I are all smooth lines, soft knees, unison, close skating, beautiful edges, intricate choreography, understated charm, elegance. They are missing attack, energy and speed. I'm hoping that their time in Detroit will help them find this over the season. They are dancers. They just need some confidence, power, and speed - perhaps an easier hill to climb than the mountain in front of G/P. I think the 3rd spot is going to be an interesting 3-way battle between G/P, P/I and R/H at Nationals.

I did not include O/W in that battle for 3rd. I think it is likely they will remain in the same spot after the season is over. I didn't catch their FD, but from the SD, I don't see a ton of improvement. The concept and packaging of the SD is wonderful (small point, I love her hair, and hope she loses the pig tails in the future). It suits them perfectly for sure. They can skate fast, and are clearly having fun. But again, there is a ton of 2-foot skating, a real lack of innovative connecting choreography, not much range in emotion and presentation and general shakiness (especially on his part). I don't like all the different music cuts. Is this a rule in the SD as well? Can they not just use 1 or 2 pieces of music? It makes the program choppy. I'm eager to see their FD. I'm hoping I see more in terms of mature skating, quality lines and finishing movements, more depth of expression, more intricate choregraphy, and so on.

ITA, NorthernDancers, with everything here. Honestly, you took the words right out of my mouth. :biggrin:
 

slipslidin

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
If anyone would like to take a look at Skate Canada's website, you will find it full to overflowing with Gilles/ Poirier promotion, NOT our first or second team. I do not think they will be inclined to change horses in mid-stream, therefore I believe the 'battle' will decide fourth, fifth and sixth places. I also think the putative third team has their eye on second place. After all, they always could 'beat' Weaver/Poje in Canada.
ETA: They were remarkably close in last year's episode, stay tuned.
 
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colleen o'neill

Medalist
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
Hmmm..Yes, I'm very afraid of the possibility that 3rd place may be a forgone conclusion ( as I'm sure many are ). However we won't have anything to judge by 'til, would it be SLC ? .. since not all programs have been shown ( or archived , and nothing is likely to come out of high performance camp )

But I think NorthernDancers is wrong to leave O/W out of the mix..The style of O/W's SD doesn't lend itself to spotting the kind of improvement we were all looking for ( still , I thought I noticed some )..However, where I noticed a lot of said improvement was in the FD..which lots of people still have to wait to see.

Of these "log jam" teams , O/W is the only one to hit both level 4's in their polka, so far ( level 4's in everything but step sequences , where they only garnered a level 2 )..their SD marks were very close to their LPIDC marks, which argues against much in the way of home-cooked scores at BC/YT this year. ( And they have well over 2 months to try to pull the footwork level up between now and their first GP. )

OTOH, judging by the comparison between P/I's scores at the two events, the same cannot be said for Thornhill , in regard to home cooking.

I think R/H's SD has the potential to be good as well as fun. It's rough right now , but it's early. They had level 3s on both YP patterns , 4s on twizzles and lift , but only a level 1 on their step sequence. There was a lot of clutching and grabbing .. and I noticed Kharis' shoulders hiking up at the start of each element again.. but I expect that will change over the months between now and Canadians..they luckily have a GP and Nebelhorn to get feedback and exposure to INT'L judges.

P/I only got a level3 and level2 on the YPs , but I assume that will be seriously worked on , and as has been noted , DSC has been excellent at getting their skaters high levels in the pattern dances. They had 3s on twizzles and steps, and 4 on their lift..Again, I see no reason why those levels would be impossible to bring up , given their coaching situation. They have SLC and Nebelhorn..( and I think they have the makings of an excellent FD ) and they, too, have many months to slave and polish , and bring out more expression.

Just as far as programs go, for the FDs .. I like P/I's best, followed by O/W.. G/P's least, and there would be room for R/H to sandwich in there , depending on how theirs shapes up.
 

herios

Medalist
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
After all, they always could 'beat' Weaver/Poje in Canada.
ETA: They were remarkably close in last year's episode, stay tuned.

Hmmmmmm, I don't think so. I really doubt SC would be that dumb to promote an unaccomplished team internationally over a team knocking on the door of the world podium.
When W/P got edged out by C/P at the canadian nationals, W/P were still deemed only a potential 10-20 ranked team in the world. Today is a diffferent story. W/P development overall the last 2 years has left me stunned and the judges didn't hold back for sure.

And I am totally in line with what Northern just said, G/P have yet to skate in front of an international panel, there we will get a better measurement of how their program will be assesed.
Their program as a whole is underwhelming, Paul Poirier used to have a lot better programs with Vanessa.
 

slipslidin

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
But lower marks, if I recall. I hope I'm wrong, but I see no limit to Skate Canada's demonstrated and potential dumbness.
 

13KJC13

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 2, 2004
If anyone would like to take a look at Skate Canada's website, you will find it full to overflowing with Gilles/ Poirier promotion, NOT our first or second team.

Where on the SC site are you seeing an "overflowing" of promotion? I could only find one photo, taken at the Thomas Sabo partnership announcement - Toronto-based national team members at an event held in Toronto. Also on the homepage, three photos each of V/M and Chan (not including their images on the homepage wallpaper), a photo of Orser, and a shot promoting the Canskate program. Other images depict Lacoste, D/R and more Canskate. No sign of them on the 30-second Worlds promo video either. :confused:
 

slipslidin

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Well, I guess you missed it, but never mind, my point was that I thought it was far too much for a team with no international experience, and just one year together.
I don't give it too much weight, but one of their fans, on another board, has boldly stated that Gilles and Poirier have been 'selected' by Skate Canada as the 'next ones'. Another of their fans has defended the practice on the same board. My gag reflex is activated when Skate Canada tries to shove one of their selections down my throat, partly because they lack subtlety, and partly because they are very often wrong.
 

13KJC13

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 2, 2004
Well, I guess you missed it, but never mind, my point was that I thought it was far too much for a team with no international experience, and just one year together.
I don't give it too much weight, but one of their fans, on another board, has boldly stated that Gilles and Poirier have been 'selected' by Skate Canada as the 'next ones'. Another of their fans has defended the practice on the same board. My gag reflex is activated when Skate Canada tries to shove one of their selections down my throat, partly because they lack subtlety, and partly because they are very often wrong.

Okay, I'll take your word for it that G/P's photo was used on the banner. I just don't agree that it constitutes "full to overflowing with Gilles/ Poirier promotion" to use their image in promoting a summer competition that they were participating in. To me, it makes sense, especially when you consider the amount of interest/discussion this team has generated, both positive and negative. It certainly keeps people talking about skating! I think it would be misleading to use images of V/M and/or W/P to promote a summer comp when, to the best of my knowledge, they weren't even registered for the event. Just my humble opinion...
 
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