Who should have won that gold! Top ten robberies

Maybe not a robbery but Orser was better, just better, and that from an Americano who is a Boitano fan and respecter of his work ethic. Gold for Orser in 84 and 88! Paul Wyle, Gold for Paul in 92. The dream skate, and Paul went on to be the best skater on the pro circuit along with Kurt of course in the 90's, he was the John Curry of his peers.

Hmm, Ladies? Definitely feel Nancy was robbied and deserved gold for two almost perfect skates 1994. Loved the young Oksana and it got her out of Ukraine, but Nancy was victimized twice-whacked and underscored by German judge.

Definitely feel Elvis, when he stuck to his martial arts style was the warrior on ice. Boy did I like his LP over Urmanov in 1994. I know there were three sections in most cases but Liz Manley was the bomb in 1988. She made Witt look slow in her Carmen number. I am sure there are many you just felt gave the LP of their lives and won the gold. (but didn't. 3 golds were needed for 98 ladies Nagano. Ok, I knew tara won fair and square but really, did you ever see a skate like Lyra before or since?

Janet was delightful...one fall. Janet Lynn is made of gold. Loved her! Deserved gold in Sapporo.

All crazy? What say the rest...about pairs gold and dance gold. 98 gold for me was the team of Bourne and Kraaztz. Riverdance was unforgettable, like Bolero and Mahler. Ok, well close. And I think Zhen and Zhao earned 3 golds. They finally got one. Carry on!:thumbsup:

Oh the austrian judges!

skateluvr said:

Maybe not a robbery but Orser was better, just better, and that from an Americano who is a Boitano fan and respecter of his work ethic. Gold for Orser in 84 and 88! Paul Wyle, Gold for Paul in 92. The dream skate, and Paul went on to be the best skater on the pro circuit along with Kurt of course in the 90's, he was the John Curry of his peers.

Hmm, Ladies? Definitely feel Nancy was robbied and deserved gold for two almost perfect skates 1994. Loved the young Oksana and it got her out of Ukraine, but Nancy was victimized twice-whacked and underscored by German judge.

Definitely feel Elvis, when he stuck to his martial arts style was the warrior on ice. Boy did I like his LP over Urmanov in 1994. I know there were three sections in most cases but Liz Manley was the bomb in 1988. She made Witt look slow in her Carmen number. I am sure there are many you just felt gave the LP of their lives and won the gold. (but didn't. 3 golds were needed for 98 ladies Nagano. Ok, I knew tara won fair and square but really, did you ever see a skate like Lyra before or since?

Janet was delightful...one fall. Janet Lynn is made of gold. Loved her! Deserved gold in Sapporo.

All crazy? What say the rest...about pairs gold and dance gold. 98 gold for me was the team of Bourne and Kraaztz. Riverdance was unforgettable, like Bolero and Mahler. Ok, well close. And I think Zhen and Zhao earned 3 golds. They finally got one. Carry on!:thumbsup:

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Well....I disagree with almost everything you wrote.

Most egregiously:

-Janet Lynn: Janet was a great freeskater, but according to the rules of the time, her figures were just too poor to win especially when compared to Trixi Schuba's famously amazing figures. This video shows exactly why Trixi was able to build up a monumental (and deserved) lead over Janet in the compulsory figures.

-Bourne/Kraatz in 1998: B/K were fun to watch but their programs were simply not up to snuff in terms of difficulty. Just listen to Judy Blumberg's analysis of their OD that season. Personally, I don't even think they deserved to win the bronze over A/P. B/K were lucky to place 4th with their OD and didn't they have some mistakes in their Golden Waltz too? Plus, if you compare the content of Riverdance with something like G/P's Memorial....there's simply no contest.

-Shen/Zhao: no way did S/Z deserve the OGM in 2002 and 2006, and I'm saying that as a fan of theirs. S/Z were just not at B/S's or even S/P's level in 2002, and their injuries very obviously hampered their skating at the Olympics in 2006. IIRC, S/Z made a bunch of mistakes in both the SP and LP while T/M were clean the entire competition.


However, I do think Nancy deserved the OGM in Lillehammer....

Nancy in Lillehammer for sure, for me. The technical content she laid down, plus I enjoyed her quiet but strong music and choreo. Didn't she have a true lutz, or is memory failing me? I thought at that time that Oksana's skating still seemed very immature, and as I love to quote, my figure-skate-watching pal at the time said she looked like she was performing at a state fair talent show in the LP -- and I thought it was a lot of posturing and posing, plus questionably difficult content to be placed over what Nancy did. Oksana's Swan Lake SP was very balletic, though, and a standout in that regard.

I can't point to a specific wuzrobbed about it, but it is hard to believe Kurt doesn't have an Oly gold!

Subjectively I agree about Elvis but I really haven't visited that comp since it happened, so I haven't brushed up on what actually was cleanly put down at the time by the men in the competition.

MISHKUTENOK/DMITRIEV in 1994 for sure! Clean as whistles, emotional, intricate. Easily won over the bobbles in G/G's LP, as far as I'm concerned. Robbed BIG TIME. That's one I can still get REALLY worked up about lol. Ooh, that one steams me! lol

Edited to add emphasis!!

This is just my opinion, but I think anyone who would've won the ladies crown in 1994 looked, at the moment, to be the biggest winner in the whole sport, but over time, became the biggest non-winner (I don't want to say the L word). 1994 and beyond exploded figure skating into popularity, no thanks to the whack. The skaters became scrutinized by the public. While turning pro seemed great at the time, I think had Oksana remained Olympic eligible, she may have been shielded from all that came her way. This is odd for me to say, but I think she would've had an easier time growing up.

Had Nancy won, yes, her fame would've exploded, but she would've been expected to perform that way again and again. There were pro competitions, when Nancy had expressed that she would rather do a show, because she got paid no matter what (Scott Hamilton responded while he was commentating that if you don't really want to compete, don't come).

Winning the gold medal as a lady in 1994 came with a heavy burden. Would it have been worth it?

Sorry for my thread derailment...now, on to people who wuzrobbed:

*Emmerich Danzer, '68
*Regoczy/Szallay, '80
*Krylova/Ovsiannikov, '98
*Chen Lu, '94
*Takahashi Daisuke, '10

Yukari Nakano was robbed of gold in 2008. That performance would have won worlds or olympics.
A triple axel, good speed, good footwork, great presentation...and that spin at the end was magnificent!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeSwUNLqFkE

I agree with rallycairn about M/D. They were better than G/G that night and should have won the olympics. G/G were not clean enough for that medal when M/D had a better performance.

skateluvr, I think you're disregarding the standings after figures & the short program. If I'm reading my results from back in 1988 (Olympics) after the figures: 1-Fadeev, 2- Boitano & 3-Orser. After the short the standings were: 1-Boitano2-Orser & 3-Fadeev. I seem to remember that in the free skate Boitano landed one more triple jump than Orser & that was a determining factor as well.

I am not sure I agree that Nancy Kerrigan was robbed of gold - she got her just desserts in many ways. And with the scoring system it could have gone either way imho. I agree MD over GG but I can understand with the scoring system how GG could win - really it is sort of like Salt Lake city - I do think Sale and Pelletier were lucky people sided with them because the same could have been done with MD over GG but Gordeeva has always been loved by the world. Look at how Scott Hamilton treated her so well, so generously after Grinkov's tragic death. It really is hard to be a singles skater especially in Gordeeva's era when you were a pairs. THere were competions back then for pros and let's be blunt a triple toe back then and it was usually two footed or sometimes underrotated isn't much ammunition despite nice edges - remember even her spinning would be more limited than most singles skaters too. But I digress. I would agree with Stojko but he was never loved by the judges. Not sure about Paul Wylie - he never really had the "it" factor - kind of like Todd Eldridge - great skaters but something about them was rather blah - no, Paul wasn't really a innovator, or stylish skater like Curry but yes he was graceful and polished. I am sure he will make a great lawyer though. I agree about Krylova and Oksianikov deserving gold but that is my preference. As for the debate on Riverdance. Maybe it didn't deserve gold overall but Riverdance certainly technically was one of the most demanding. Memorial by the way was very dramatic but not necessarily technically the hardest.

skateluvr said:

Maybe not a robbery but Orser was better, just better, and that from an Americano who is a Boitano fan and respecter of his work ethic. Gold for Orser in 84 and 88! Paul Wyle, Gold for Paul in 92. The dream skate, and Paul went on to be the best skater on the pro circuit along with Kurt of course in the 90's, he was the John Curry of his peers.

Hmm, Ladies? Definitely feel Nancy was robbied and deserved gold for two almost perfect skates 1994. Loved the young Oksana and it got her out of Ukraine, but Nancy was victimized twice-whacked and underscored by German judge.

Definitely feel Elvis, when he stuck to his martial arts style was the warrior on ice. Boy did I like his LP over Urmanov in 1994. I know there were three sections in most cases but Liz Manley was the bomb in 1988. She made Witt look slow in her Carmen number. I am sure there are many you just felt gave the LP of their lives and won the gold. (but didn't. 3 golds were needed for 98 ladies Nagano. Ok, I knew tara won fair and square but really, did you ever see a skate like Lyra before or since?

Janet was delightful...one fall. Janet Lynn is made of gold. Loved her! Deserved gold in Sapporo.

All crazy? What say the rest...about pairs gold and dance gold. 98 gold for me was the team of Bourne and Kraaztz. Riverdance was unforgettable, like Bolero and Mahler. Ok, well close. And I think Zhen and Zhao earned 3 golds. They finally got one. Carry on!:thumbsup:

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I think your real question is Who should've won OGM if based only upon free skate or Who deserved OGM based upon career?

I think Orser vs Boitano, I would've still picked Boitano. As for Orser vs Hamilton, Scott had a lead due to figures. I agree that Scot's free skate was not deserving of OGM, but the results were based upon 3 segments.

As for Wylie, I actually missed seeing the Men's long program. Based upon general comments over time, seems that everyone agrees that Wylie had the best free skate, but did he also beat Petrenko at figures and short program?

Elvis vs Urmanov. From a personal taste perspective, I preferred Elvis, too. However, from a judging perspective, I don't recall how close the decision was and can't comment on the quality of the skating.

As others have pointed out, Janet Lynn didn't get OGM because of her poor figures. Now if your question was 'who deserves on OGM for their free skates only?', you'd have a valid point regarding Janet Lynn.

I also disagree about S/Z who I Love. In 02, they were purely technical - very little presentation wise. For me, their real breakthrough came in DC in 2003 - that's when they were on point in both technical and presentation. in 06, their injuries prevented them from getting to the top of the podium - it was just amazing that they even won Bronze considering the severity of his injury. Their win in 2010 was well deserved, even though they didn't win the free skate.

I do think Nancy Kerrigan should've won OGM in 94. While her skating was less vibrant (as related to exuberance), it was so much cleaner to watch - other than doing a big double instead of a triple, she made no obvious errors. Oksana's free skate was very wobbly.

Regoczy/Szallay - OG/80
Mishkutenok-Dmitriev - OG/94
Michelle Kwan - OG/98
Irina Slutzkaya - OG 2002
Yukari Nakano - Worlds 1998
Denkova/Staviski - Worlds 2004
All of them should have won the gold!
I my opinion Oksana Baiul entirely deserved the gold in 1994! One of the best skaters ever - much expressive and charismatic!

Let's take a closer look, at 92 men and 94 ladies:

92 Men- Short Program. 1. Viktor Petrenko http://youtu.be/whXxx5Hza0U
2. Petr Barna http://youtu.be/EASaspCBfqc
3. Paul Wylie http://youtu.be/GfEF_0GeDwc

Paul wasn't expected to be in the final group.

Free skate: 1. Viktor Petrenko http://youtu.be/f1edcCIy7Vw (I think his 4th place free skate in Lillehammer was far superior to this)
2. Paul Wylie http://youtu.be/tzxrQSbaCRU
3. Petr Barna http://youtu.be/6oa9sg4GCQY

94 Ladies
Short Program: 1. Nancy Kerrigan http://youtu.be/HPI3RUcA9Rc
2. Oksana Baiul http://youtu.be/Y6zKfZVurJY
3. Surya Bonaly http://youtu.be/YhGL8LyRzGY
4. Chen Lu http://youtu.be/A887xBi2Ta4

Free skate: 1. Oksana Baiul http://youtu.be/p_fvrG3f0fI
2. Nancy Kerrigan http://youtu.be/N7RvWbnaDZk
3. Chen Lu http://youtu.be/UfAo4rfrSn0
4. Surya Bonaly http://youtu.be/fnp5D0jovkY

If you're curious as to the scores and ordinals, visit this site:
http://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/winter/


ETA-- In a sport like skating, where you are judged on more than your performance on the ice, this was where Nancy lost the 1994 gold:

1. Oksana Baiul- http://youtu.be/KfdfjIoGWw4
5. Nancy Kerrigan- http://youtu.be/P8Sk7yBYl8c

merrywidow said:

skateluvr, I think you're disregarding the standings after figures & the short program. If I'm reading my results from back in 1988 (Olympics) after the figures: 1-Fadeev, 2- Boitano & 3-Orser. After the short the standings were: 1-Boitano2-Orser & 3-Fadeev. I seem to remember that in the free skate Boitano landed one more triple jump than Orser & that was a determining factor as well.

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Boitano landed two triple axels in his free - although he might have had a slight two-foot on the second one. Orser had planned a second triple axel but only did a double - did not even attempt the triple. He also had a step-out on the triple flip. Can't remember if he attempted a triple loop - a jump he did not perform so much (IIRC).

Boitano vs Orser:

1. Boitano: http://youtu.be/G_Rpt0dF9zw
2. Orser: http://youtu.be/U1TLmtf0CzI

heyang said:

Elvis vs Urmanov. From a personal taste perspective, I preferred Elvis, too. However, from a judging perspective, I don't recall how close the decision was and can't comment on the quality of the skating.

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As far as I remember only the French judge saw Elvis as number one, even the Canadian judge was for Urmanov. Urmanov got six 1st place ordinals, two 2 (Romanian and Danish judge) and one 5 (French judge). So, between Stojko and Urmanov it was not even close!!!

I see no robberies in those cases which have been mentioned so far.

In terms of 'wuz-robbed' of gold at olympics, the one that I really felt was M/D and I, like many, just swooned over G/G. Kerrigan and Baiul as well as Kwan and Lipinski just seemed close to me and I could see why the winner won and could have seen it the other way too. I really read a lot about 2002 pairs - and still don't really know who I "should" have won gold the first and I guess only time - maybe that was another "there were arguments for either way".

I still am happy for Sarah H who had an amazing LP - really one to watch for the sheer Olympic joy of it; plus her dress was pretty. But, I do think she was overplaced in the short - so maybe there is possible wuz-robbing there - but so often we watch the LP and let that sway our feelings, and given the LPs, I didn't feel Kwan or Slutkaya or Cohen really were robbed.

Definitely agree that S/Z weren't robbed in 2002 - if she had landed the 4throw, it would have been interesting to see those results and I'm sure we would have had multiple opinions on that one. In 2006, it was amazing that they skated and medaled - what was unfortunate, I think, is that it was Shen who messed up her jump in the short and long if I remember correctly. I was happy they won gold in 2010, however, I could have also seen them in silver position...but no, didn't feel like P/T were robbed either (as I believe they messed up the short).

I'm still a bit confused about this past Worlds and dance...but again, not sure that wuz-robbed is my feeling as much as, darn, this is really hard to judge/evaluate and ultimately rank or choose between.

I'm not sure I know enough to evaluate some of the programs, so I could change my view as I learn more.

I preferred Kerrigan over Baiul because I found Baiul's style to be generally rather fussy and fluttery, with the exception of her wonderful Swan Lake short program in that Olympics. I always found Kerrigan smooth and powerful. Quiet but strong, as rallycairn aptly says. I do feel that Nancy should have won, though I'm sure that many would argue the opposite.

As for Wylie over Petrenko, for years I thought that it would have been great if Paul had won, but when I recently viewed his free skate again (which I often do when I want to be uplifted), I noticed that he had no combination jumps. Paul's technique was meticulous, but Petrenko's was even more so, a true classical Soviet-trained skater. (Yes, I remember he's Ukrainian.) I found Viktor's program dull, but his delivery was first-rate I think. Paul did as much with his silver as anyone else might do with a gold, so things worked out. The skater he became as a pro—confident, impassioned, technically sure—was victory enough, I think.

I agree that Shen/Zhao were not robbed in either 2002 or 2006, for the reasons everyone has stated here. I have adored them since 2003, but in 2002 they were not up to the artistic standard of B/S or even of S/P, and in 2006, he had been injured. Miraculous that he regained his strength, though, and kept improving. One of the greatest pairs ever. That 2010 OGM was one of the most satisfying moments in skating for me as a longtime fan.

I understand that Tara was good in 1998, did that extra triple-triple, looked very happy and bubbly as she skated. But her jumps were always low, and her delivery was still rather childlike. Of course I'm biased in Michelle's favor, always have been, always will be, so maybe my preference of her in 1998 is just due to that. But to me that the basic quality of Lyra Angelica, and Michelle's interpretation—miles ahead of anything Tara could have accomplished at any time in her career. Fortunately, the lack of a gold has turned out to be irrelevant in Michelle's case; her extraordinary accomplishments are just fine without that addition. I do think this is a "wuzrobbed," and I'm sticking to my story. (Though if she had won the gold, would she have stayed around and given us all those other amazing programs? This was very likely a blessing in disguise for Michelle and for fans of skating.)

Yeah, though I love G and G, it might be that M/D deserved the gold, although one commentator pointed out at the time the purity of G/G's technique (despite that one stumble by Grinkov). They showed side-by-side comparisons of a throw jump, and indeed Dmitriev stopped completely to throw his partner, while Grinkov remained in a glide. Amazing! Again, the outcome of this match turns out not to matter, because Dmitriev ended up with two golds in any case, both sparklingly deserved, and each of his partners earned one gold.

For a long time I wished that Bourne/Kraatz had medaled in 1998, but then I paid more attention to Annissina/Piezerat and realized that they really were superior to B/K and deserved that bronze—and the gold in 2002. Their Romeo and Juliet was packed with detail but smooth as silk in delivery.

The Brians...gosh, impossible to decide. This is why I wish there could be a medal for the short and a medal for the long. (Though in 1984, ironically, Orser would have won both of those. Hamilton came in first only in school figures, as I recall.)

blue dog, I like your choices!

I might add Belbin & Agosto 2009, but it was a totally wacko year, for sure. D&W should have won the FD by miles. DomShabs should have scored much lower in the FD. Belbin & Agosto definitely had the strongest SD, although I can't say that it was a favorite of mine.

So
CD ( I was fine with the grading)
1 Oksana DOMNINA / Maxim SHABALIN RUS 40.77 21.10 19.67 7.85 7.60 7.95 8.20 0.00 #24
2 Tanith BELBIN / Benjamin AGOSTO USA 39.65 20.26 19.39 7.80 7.55 7.75 8.00 0.00 #25
3 Tessa VIRTUE / Scott MOIR CAN 39.37 20.48 18.89 7.60 7.35 7.60 7.75 0.00 #23
4 Meryl DAVIS / Charlie WHITE USA 37.73 19.30 18.43 7.45 7.15 7.50 7.45 0.00 #29

OD (Generally OK with this)
1 Tanith BELBIN / Benjamin AGOSTO USA 65.16 33.90 31.26 8.20 8.05 8.35 8.25 8.30 0.00 #26
2 Oksana DOMNINA / Maxim SHABALIN RUS 64.68 33.40 31.28 8.25 8.10 8.25 8.25 8.30 0.00 #24
3 Meryl DAVIS / Charlie WHITE USA 62.60 33.30 29.30 7.65 7.60 7.75 7.75 7.80 0.00 #27
4 Nathalie PECHALAT / Fabian BOURZAT FRA 61.83 33.50 28.33 7.40 7.25 7.55 7.55 7.55 0.00 #22
5 Jana KHOKHLOVA / Sergei NOVITSKI RUS 61.68 32.30 29.38 7.70 7.60 7.85 7.80 7.75 0.00 #25
6 Tessa VIRTUE / Scott MOIR CAN 61.05 31.90 29.15 7.75 7.55 7.60 7.75 7.70 0.00 #28

FD D&W should have had at least 3 pts more in PCS, DomShabs at least two less in TES, one less in PCS.
This was D&W's super Samson & Delilah program, performed at its very, very best. DomShabs had several very visible mistakes in their Spartacus FD, and were over graded in general for that FD. Overall, that would leave B&A as champs, and D&W in 2nd place, but very close to DomShabs. At the very least, D&W should have gotten the bronze (which instead went to a flawed & undertrained V&M, because Tessa was still not recovered from her compartment syndrome surgery, and they were very short of training time).

A common theme in these cases, the wuzrobbed had no judge on either the tech panel or the judging panel.

1 Oksana DOMNINA / Maxim SHABALIN RUS 100.85 50.70 50.15 8.40 8.20 8.45 8.45 8.40 0.00 #23
2 Tanith BELBIN / Benjamin AGOSTO USA 100.27 50.50 49.77 8.35 8.10 8.45 8.30 8.40 0.00 #21
3 Meryl DAVIS / Charlie WHITE USA 100.03 51.20 48.83 8.10 8.00 8.15 8.30 8.25 0.00 #22
4 Tessa VIRTUE / Scott MOIR CAN 99.98 50.70 49.28 8.15 8.05 8.30 8.35 8.35 0.00 #20

Overall results should have been:

B&A and D&W were both robbed.

B&A 100.27+65.16+39.65=205.08
D&W 103.03+62.6+37.73=204.36
DomShabs 97.85 +40.77+64.68+=204.30

BTW, I think Boitano should have won, based on the 3 segments, and the fact that Orser not only had two flaws in his FD, he dressed like a skating bellhop and was not convincing as a soldier, while Boitano definitely was (both were doing military programs). Boitano's program had a definite story, and was easily understandable by the audience.

Also Trixie Schuba's figures were absolutely the greatest of all time. Truly awesome. They were so good, they were enjoyable to watch She deserved her win, given the rules of the time.

Olympia said:

....
Yeah, though I love G and G, it might be that M/D deserved the gold, although one commentator pointed out at the time the purity of G/G's technique (despite that one stumble by Grinkov). They showed side-by-side comparisons of a throw jump, and indeed Dmitriev stopped completely to throw his partner, while Grinkov remained in a glide. Amazing! Again, the outcome of this match turns out not to matter, because Dmitriev ended up with two golds in any case, both sparklingly deserved, and each of his partners earned one gold.

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Yes, I remember this commentary. I think my wuzrobbed feeling at the time was based on a) that 6.0 emphasis on you skate clean in the top three, you win mentality; and b) i was emotionally taken by Artur's 'wild' style and perhaps biased toward him/his team at that time. So perhaps this is another -wow, both so good, could go either way or the way it actually did go kind of example.

It is funny to me that I am actually finding it hard to think of wuz-robbed For REAL examples (dance aside, and I appreciate Doris' discussion above)

I don't like that Kwan and irina don't have a gold medal in Olympics and lipinski and Hughes do, I found Tara 's program ok entertaining and I didn't like Hugues at all, so this is just a wish. I wouldnt be sad if Michelle had won in 1998 and irina at 2002, I wouldn't shout they wuzrobbed someone else.

This is the dead horses thread