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Thread: Who will rise and who will fall in 2012-13?

  1. #61
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    rise- Miner, Zhang, Wagner, Gold, Marley and Bru...

    I see Wagner getting perhaps Bronze at Worlds this year...which will lead to an Olympic medal. I can not imagine an Olympic podium with no North American on it, and its not gonna happen with a Canadian lady.....

    Just my opinion....



  2. #62
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    I think Zoueva's teams will fall without Igor's technique assistance. I think with more attention from Igor, those who went with him will improve upon their standings from this year.
    Weaver/Poje and P/B have good shots at challenging V/M and D/W seriously for the first time and H/D have a good chance at Silver at Nationals, depending on what program the Shibs come up with. If the Shibs go the way of this year, my bets on H/D for US Silver.

    Hold steady-- Ashley, Caroline. I would put Caroline in the rise category but I'm feeling very lukewarm toward her new programs. I think they have potential but they're just so overdone! Show us something new, Caroline =/

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceflame View Post
    BTW, Last month, There was a very interesing article. The Ice Castle will soon open a new rink at Shenzhen,China. I don't know anything or any link between this news and these two's training abroad, but there left a lot to think.
    So this might mean that Han Yan and some other Chinese skaters will have free training courses at Ice Castle every year from now on. Do they know how lucky they are?

    Quote Originally Posted by iceflame View Post
    And yes, the Chinese fed covered for all the expenses. I am very happy that he eventually got a chance he deserved.
    I don’t see why he “deserved” to train at Ice Castle for free + to stay in some nice villa for free. So Patrick, Joshua, etc. did not “deserve” to have their expenses covered? This sounds unfair to other skaters.

    Quote Originally Posted by iceflame View Post
    What kind of evidence you want? When asked by a fan why he didn't get any GP assign, Yan answered in his weibo(twitter of chinese version) in three words: Please ask the officers (of the Chinese Fed). And after someone told him there is still a TBA sopt at COC, he said clearly that he hope to get it. I think these are enough to express his willingness to going up the senior level.
    I haven’t followed him on weibo, so I didn’t know this. Ok so he also wants to move up like Joshua does? But If Yan said “Please ask the officers,” then he knows that the officers are the big bosses since they’re the ones who cover all his expenses. Maybe he doesn’t like this, but unless he pays for his own training expenses, traveling costs, choreographer salaries, etc., the officers will continue to make the decisions. That’s fair and square.

    OTOH, the USFS is not paying for all Joshua’s expenses, but he still has to obey his fed’s decision. Most of the time, skaters just have to obey their feds’ decisions, even if those decisions are against their own will.

    Quote Originally Posted by iceflame View Post
    Plus, I don't think any skater wants to stay at junior level after winning almost every title. It's very clear that the Chinese Fed want to hold him back in the junior. I am just watching his talent being unrecognized and wasted by the Chinese Fed. Angry? No. numb? Yes.
    So do you think Joshua’s talent is also “unrecognized and wasted by the USFS?” Anyway the Chinese fed is spending big money on Yan, so I don’t think the fed wants to “hold Yan back,” otherwise they’re wasting their money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serious Business View Post
    And are you seriously comparing the financial and coaching opportunities of a skater from a developing country with a vastly lower per capita income to skaters from rich, developed countries with robust skating infrastructure? Goodness, do you get mad when a poor student gets a scholarship?
    LOL Han Yan is not some “poor student.” I wish I was rich like him. He’s from a well-off family and he has shown off luxury items like Hermes scarf and SARCAR watch. Do you know how much does that watch cost? My goodness, I’m jealous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serious Business View Post
    This money thing goes both ways. MOst of Han Yan's earnings, including prize money, goes directly to the Chinese federation. The Japanese Skating Federation operates under the same system.
    Han Yan’s prize money is far from enough to cover his expenses. Plus, the Chinese fed pays him a monthly salary. Does the JSF also pay their skaters monthly salaries? Anyway it’s not a common practice in U.S., Canada, and most European countries.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serious Business View Post
    There's a silly comparison. Joshua Farris didn't win any major titles in juniors. Han Yan won all of them except the JGPF. Joshua finished 16th at his nation's senior championships. Han Yan finished 3rd at his. Han's proved himself. Joshua hasn't. The fact that Joshua and his coach didn't file a complaint (and when's the last time any skater did that over GP assignments) doesn't negate the criticism over how the Chinese federation is handling Han Yan.
    Many people feel Joshua was undermarked at the US championships. I’m not going to discuss if he was undermarked here, since that has been debated many times before. But if you look at the ISU rules, nationals has little if anything to do with GP assignments, otherwise how do you explain that Armin, who finished 4th at the US championships, didn't get an assignment and Dornbush, who finished 13th, got two. GP assignments have to do with SB scores, in which Yan was ranked 19th and Joshua was 20th, and there’s not that big of a difference between their scores, just 0.28 points apart.

  4. #64
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    lakeside, I don't know why I get the implication somehow that Han Yan's "good luck" is unfair and an injustice to Joshua Farris and other non Chinese skaters. People live in different systems and the really talented people will find a way to succeed and thrive in their system or they leave. There is no point staying in a system to complain about it. In the US, the star athletes are multi-millionaires. In Japan, the successful skaters are salaried "employees" of big corporations, besides all kinds of endorsements and advertizing money they also earn. There are subjectively intangible rewards as well for people to be happy where they are. Opportunities are everywhere for those who know how to seize them. Other people's good fortune should be inspiring instead of jealousy inducing.

    Han Yan is a huge talent but he is not going to complete as a Senior this season even though he is ready. The Chinese fed has their reasons and I believe things will work out extremely well for him any way. Josh needs to work it out with the US fed which has nothing whatsoever to do with the Chinese fed or their decision for Yan. The two young talented skaters have their different paths and each needs to adapt to and thrive within his own system. The best will not be denied their destiny.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    lakesideThe best will not be denied their destiny.
    Slightly OT, but the only ones who can get in the way of the best...are them. Christopher Bowman

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    Quote Originally Posted by blue dog View Post
    Slightly OT, but the only ones who can get in the way of the best...are them. Christopher Bowman
    Of course. But those who self sabotage are not the best. There are essential innate qualities lacking. Years ago I suggested Eric Lamaze as a role model for my horse riding daughter and she snuffed incredulously at his drug abuse. But I saw qualities for success in him. He had to overcome his very difficult childhood and inner demons as an adult to eventually become the Olympic Champion, after being banned twice. He has taught many young riders and one of his students is going with him to this year's Olympics.

    One of the reasons I am so interested in Patrick Chan, besides his obvious talents and my enjoyment and appreciation of his skating, is that I saw and keep seeing so many qualities for success in him. He of course is much more fortunate than Eric in the environmental factors such as great parents. In fact, I see both innate and extrinsic factors for him to be ultra successful, like a perfect storm. I say we ain't see nothing yet from him.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    Of course. But those who self sabotage are not the best. There are essential innate qualities lacking. Years ago I suggested Eric Lamaze as a role model for my horse riding daughter and she snuffed incredulously at his drug abuse. But I saw qualities for success in him. He had to overcome his very difficult childhood and inner demons as an adult to eventually become the Olympic Champion, after being banned twice. He has taught many young riders and one of his students is going with him to this year's Olympics.

    One of the reasons I am so interested in Patrick Chan, besides his obvious talents and my enjoyment and appreciation of his skating, is that I saw and keep seeing so many qualities for success in him. He of course is much more fortunate than Eric in the environmental factors such as great parents. In fact, I see both innate and extrinsic factors for him to be ultra successful, like a perfect storm. I say we ain't see nothing yet from him.
    I hope skating will survive a CoP champion like Chan. Really, he is so lacking in charisma and the sport seems to be in a nose dive since he won the championship.

    Even in Canada, there are major problems, and we all saw the tiny arena at SC last season was barely half full when Chan skated.

    If Chan is the "CoP" champion it seems the public prefers other skaters from the past regardless of their nationality.

    I am not a big Plushy fan but would not hesitate to pay to see him skate Live.
    Sadly, I don't feel the same way about Chan.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    I hope skating will survive a CoP champion like Chan. Really, he is so lacking in charisma and the sport seems to be in a nose dive since he won the championship.

    Even in Canada, there are major problems, and we all saw the tiny arena at SC last season was barely half full when Chan skated.

    If Chan is the "CoP" champion it seems the public prefers other skaters from the past regardless of their nationality.

    I am not a big Plushy fan but would not hesitate to pay to see him skate Live.
    Sadly, I don't feel the same way about Chan.
    Of course you don't feel the same way. But that will not change his course or destiny.

    Good luck with your 6.0 champion in the COP era.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    Of course you don't feel the same way. But that will not change his course or destiny.

    Good luck with your 6.0 champion in the COP era.
    I just hope there is still a sport of figure skating a few years from now that occassionaly gets shown on TV.

    It seems USA is a lost cause but those who are half-way honest see it is not much different in Canada.

    Last time I checked, EuroSport passed on the GP for a Darts tournament.....LOL.

    Just saying.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    I just hope there is still a sport of figure skating a few years from now that occassionaly gets shown on TV.

    It seems USA is a lost cause but those who are half-way honest see it is not much different in Canada.

    Last time I checked, EuroSport passed on the GP for a Darts tournament.....LOL.

    Just saying.....
    So why are you still here, trashing a dead sport?

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    I hope skating will survive a CoP champion like Chan. Really, he is so lacking in charisma and the sport seems to be in a nose dive since he won the championship.

    Even in Canada, there are major problems, and we all saw the tiny arena at SC last season was barely half full when Chan skated.

    If Chan is the "CoP" champion it seems the public prefers other skaters from the past regardless of their nationality.

    I am not a big Plushy fan but would not hesitate to pay to see him skate Live.
    Sadly, I don't feel the same way about Chan.
    Welcome back, janetfan!

    Hasn't it appeared to you that at least it's a little bit unfair to site all the problems with the diminishing sport on Patrick's winning?!

  12. #72
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    If Takahashi wins, will many complain about a COP champion? Or Abbott? Or Kozuka? They are all today's best COP skaters and they are wonderful.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Welcome back, janetfan!

    Hasn't it appeared to you that at least it's a little bit unfair to site all the problems with the diminishing sport on Patrick's winning?!
    Maybe a little bit .....hehehe...but sort of feels true.....and he is far from a skating icon despite two WC's.

    Being booed in Nice can only be overlooked by his ubers.

    Lat time the French booed the podium that way skating had some drastic rule changes.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Maybe a little bit .....hehehe...but sort of feels true.....and he is far from a skating icon despite two WC's.

    Being booed in Nice can only be overlooked by his ubers.

    Lat time the French booed the podium that way skating had some drastic rule changes.
    So ISU is the biggest uber of them all because this booing incidence has been overlooked and the rules are not going to change next season.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    So ISU is the biggest uber of them all because this booing incidence has been overlooked and the rules are not going to change next season.
    You like fast skaters? Great blades on ice? I saw Eric Heiden skate once....am sure he is Speedy's dream for a great figure skater.

    The vasty majority of the N. American public disagrees....skating is more than blades on ice, and speed.

    Besides, Eric never fell down four times and still won an event...

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