Who will rise and who will fall in 2012-13? | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Who will rise and who will fall in 2012-13?

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
The reality is Chan won. It would be nice if you acknowledge it, otherwise.......??? :rolleye:

I heard lots of cheers and applause from fancam videos. Those are realities recorded uncut unedited.

Hope the merciless booing which probably led to Chan dumping/being dumped by his team help put him on a better path. Such a mechanical skating style for points only will never win back the skating public.

I feel sure Chan is aware of this...why aren't you :think:

Not a big fan but can certainly wish Patrick a good and healthy season.
 

blue dog

Trixie Schuba's biggest fan!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 16, 2006
I'm not very funny, but the title of this thread lends me to say-- every skater will fall this season! Everyone in skating falls, but remember, Confucius said, "Fall seven times, get up eight."
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
I'm not very funny, but the title of this thread lends me to say-- every skater will fall this season! Everyone in skating falls, but remember, Confucius said, "Fall seven times, get up eight."

Was that Confucious...or Sasha?
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
I'm not very funny, but the title of this thread lends me to say-- every skater will fall this season! Everyone in skating falls, but remember, Confucius said, "Fall seven times, get up eight."

Properly translated, it would be "Fall seven times, rise eight." ;)

So true. :yes:
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Some federations like the Russian they pay their athletes and cover their expenses and training camps, plus doctors and choreographers. I dont find it unfair, it gives equal opportunity to both rich and no rich children to work their talent. I wish all top athletes didnt need 200.000 dollars per year to train, it is insane amount of money. In Mishin camp they were a dozen junior kids from romania,estonia, ukraine and russia and I asked how do they all pay so much money to attend and they told me the federations sends them and pays for them. Up to some years ago and maybe still now RF didnt want its skaters to have personal sponsors and it was the main conflict between Plu and Pisseev.

How about FSO the largest Russian figure skating forum having voted him The Best Non Russian Skater this year

what do they know? on the same poll they voted Plushenko the 6.0 skater the best russian one. Maybe cause in cop era he has done pretty fine ;)
i m only kidding. :)
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Some federations like the Russian they pay their athletes and cover their expenses and training camps, plus doctors and choreographers. I dont find it unfair, it gives equal opportunity to both rich and no rich children to work their talent. I wish all top athletes didnt need 200.000 dollars per year to train, it is insane amount of money. In Mishin camp they were a dozen junior kids from romania,estonia, ukraine and russia and I asked how do they all pay so much money to attend and they told me the federations sends them and pays for them. Up to some years ago and maybe still now RF didnt want its skaters to have personal sponsors and it was the main conflict between Plu and Pisseev.

It's true such system can be an equalizer so all talents may have a fair chance. As long as there is not too much politicking about coach choices, etc. But then politicking is not exclusive to any system.

what do they know? on the same poll they voted Plushenko the 6.0 skater the best russian one. Maybe cause in cop era he has done pretty fine ;)
i m only kidding. :)

I certainly agree with their choices! :thumbsup:
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
I'd love to see Joshua Farris have a great season and finally deliver at Nationals, medal, and earn a World's birth! You never know what could happen
 

yousunny

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 24, 2012

I am not sure whether Joshua receives funding from US skating federation or not, but some US skaters do. According to Mirai Nagasu's interview, she is funded by US federation although the money is shrinking due to her 7th finish in US nationals. And many US universities provide stipend or scholarship for their athletes to cover their training fee, tuition and living expenses.

Han Yan is two-time Chinese national Champion, youth Olympic champion and junior world champion. He has won 8 out of 11 international competitions and has been on podium 10 out of 11. If he is in US, I believe he can receive stipend or award too.

As tax payers, Chinese Fans are just unhappy about Federation's unwise decision for holding Yan in Junior events, because Yan is the No.2 or maybe No.1 ranked male skater in China. Holding him back will hurt China's chance to get medals in competitions and may also hurt China's spots for worlds and Olympics.
 
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SkateFan66

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
I am not sure whether Joshua receives funding from US skating federation or not, but some US skaters do.

Joshua was named to the Team B envelope; therefore, he does get funding from U.S. Figure Skating. The Team B funding is the highest level of funding that he was eligible for given his results from last season.
 

Serious Business

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
I'm not a Chinese national, I still don't want to see a talent like Han Yan squandered. I think he's ready for seniors, and would benefit from it. I don't get what the Chinese fed is doing. It's not like they have a particularly deep men's field where only a few can get opportunities and resources.

Ultimately, regardless of country, eligible skaters are competing in a rather paternalistic system, in which many decisions and opportunities are out of their control and disproportionate to their own achievements. I don't see why skaters being slighted and ignored under one federation makes it OK for another federation to do it to some other skater. The baseline level of acceptable treatment of these athletes isn't the very worst one.

I hope skating will survive a CoP champion like Chan. Really, he is so lacking in charisma and the sport seems to be in a nose dive since he won the championship.

Even in Canada, there are major problems, and we all saw the tiny arena at SC last season was barely half full when Chan skated.

If Chan is the "CoP" champion it seems the public prefers other skaters from the past regardless of their nationality.

I am not a big Plushy fan but would not hesitate to pay to see him skate Live.
Sadly, I don't feel the same way about Chan.

You know, I am a Chan fan and thought he earned that win in Nice, but I do sympathize with what you're saying. It's pretty undeniable now that Chan is not connecting with a lot of audiences, maybe even most of them. If he continues to fail to connect with so many people, while winning as much as he did, that's not good for the popularity of men's skating. However, the idea that something like this would permanently depress the sport is a silly one. These things happen in all sports: a dominant competitor/team on a streak is one that most people don't like. Streaks end, new challengers who are more popular wind up succeeding. And of course, rules can change. I'm surprised they didn't seem to pass any new rules addressing Chan's much-booed win.

I do think as it is currently done, PCScoring seriously undervalues artistry, performance ability and musicality. Perhaps, behind the scenes, judges will get some severe memos reeducating them in this regard. In which case, Chan may see his PCS drop back to Earth and Takahashi would get a serious boost (and deservedly so).
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
From Joshua Farris' site:

As Josh rises in the rankings, the cost of his training also escalates, and is currently around $70,000 a year. He receives funding through the New England Amateur Skating Foundation and the US Athletic Foundation, which are both made possible through donations. Read below for information on how to make a donation to Josh's training.

I've read this same paragraph for at least two years and I'm guessing his training costs may have gone up. And he is still a Junior. But he probably saves on his costs because he trains in his hometown.

As I posted earlier, I envision much success for Joshua, both nationally and internationally.
 

yousunny

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 24, 2012
Han Yan is two-time Chinese national Champion, youth Olympic champion and junior world champion. He has won 8 out of 11 international competitions and has been on podium 10 out of 11. If he is in US, I believe he can receive stipend or award too.

As tax payers, Chinese Fans are just unhappy about Federation's unwise decision for holding Yan in Junior events, because Yan is the No.2 or maybe No.1 ranked male skater in China. Holding him back will hurt China's chance to get medals in competitions and may also hurt China's spots for worlds and Olympics.

Actually, Yan is the current no.1 male Chinese skater (19th) in world standing. Song ranked 25th and Guan 47. For Season's best, Song is higher than Yan (226.75 vs 222.45). Both Song and Yan are two-time national Champion. In last season's Chinese national Winter Game (held every 4 years), Yan wins 2 out 3 disciplines (2nd in short program) while Song wins short program and total. Yan wins junior world and YOG. Song got two GP medals.

My point is Yan's performance is very close to Song if not better. And if Yan competes in senior GPs this season, he would have similar chance to medal as Song does. But if Yan competes in JGP, he would have 90 percent chance to get three more junior golds for Chinese federation. I can understand Chinese fed.'s decision to let Yan stays junior, but cannot agree. According to Chinese fed.'s reaction to Song's GP medals, senior medal obviously weighs more than junior gold, but they just don't want to take any risk.
 
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ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
re: Han Yan/Joshua Farris

It's a calculated risk. The fact is, if they skate junior this season on the GP circuit, but have a wicked Nationals, they can go to 4CC/Worlds/WTT. However, if they skate senior, they cannot go to junior Worlds. That two-way street has closed (I hereby dub it the Ten-Han rule, given the prediliction of Denis Ten and Sui/Han to skate both. And I do think S/H in particular were a reason for this rule). The downside for the skater is that there is the risk of being seen as junior when/if they eventually get to seniors that season, but I don't think that's a longterm risk. The federation, on the other hand, preserves the opportunity to send someone to both junior and senior worlds (provided they haven't competed on the senior circuit, they can compete on the junior circuit) if necessary - preservation of JGP slots, more JW slots, etc.
 

Serious Business

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
ImaginaryPogue, maybe that is the reasoning of the Federations (although I'm inclined to think Farris is held back because the US has a much deeper men's field). But it's a pretty silly one. First of, it's only junior competitions, the spots for them aren't that important. Second of all, forcing a proven junior competitor like Joshua or Han to stay at that level of competition means that they take up a spot another junior skater could use. This negates the spots they already earned. It makes much more sense to let them graduate, so up and coming junior skaters from their countries could take advantage of those hard-earned spots and get a chance to succeed on their own merit.
 

yousunny

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 24, 2012
re: Han Yan/Joshua Farris

It's a calculated risk. The fact is, if they skate junior this season on the GP circuit, but have a wicked Nationals, they can go to 4CC/Worlds/WTT. However, if they skate senior, they cannot go to junior Worlds. That two-way street has closed (I hereby dub it the Ten-Han rule, given the prediliction of Denis Ten and Sui/Han to skate both. And I do think S/H in particular were a reason for this rule). The downside for the skater is that there is the risk of being seen as junior when/if they eventually get to seniors that season, but I don't think that's a longterm risk. The federation, on the other hand, preserves the opportunity to send someone to both junior and senior worlds (provided they haven't competed on the senior circuit, they can compete on the junior circuit) if necessary - preservation of JGP slots, more JW slots, etc.
I don't think this "No going back to junior" rule will be applied to 2012-2013 season.
 

bestskate8

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
russian skaters

Rise:

Tuktamisheva, Lipniskaya, Shelepen, Radionova,
Davankova/Deputat, Stolbova/Klimov, Bazarova/Larionov,
Ilinikh/Kazalapov, Bobrova/Solovev
Gachinsky and Plushenko, considering his new approach.

I think Gachinski and Lipniskaya will be very interesting this year!:cool:
If Gachinski manages to stay on his feet as he did last year at Euro 2012, he will surpass many elite skaters including Chan but not Plushenko.
And no one will surpass Plushenko next year and at Oly, if he manages continue to stay on his feet and be healthy.:p
 

DianaSelene

Medalist
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
Rise:

Tuktamisheva, Lipniskaya, Shelepen, Radionova,
Davankova/Deputat, Stolbova/Klimov, Bazarova/Larionov,
Ilinikh/Kazalapov, Bobrova/Solovev
Gachinsky and Plushenko, considering his new approach.

I think Gachinski and Lipniskaya will be very interesting this year!:cool:
If Gachinski manages to stay on his feet as he did last year at Euro 2012, he will surpass many elite skaters including Chan but not Plushenko.
And no one will surpass Plushenko next year and at Oly, if he manages continue to stay on his feet and be healthy.:p

:bow: OH, HOW I HOPE YOU ARE RIGHT!
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
I'm not a Chinese national, I still don't want to see a talent like Han Yan squandered. I think he's ready for seniors, and would benefit from it. I don't get what the Chinese fed is doing. It's not like they have a particularly deep men's field where only a few can get opportunities and resources.

Ultimately, regardless of country, eligible skaters are competing in a rather paternalistic system, in which many decisions and opportunities are out of their control and disproportionate to their own achievements. I don't see why skaters being slighted and ignored under one federation makes it OK for another federation to do it to some other skater. The baseline level of acceptable treatment of these athletes isn't the very worst one.



You know, I am a Chan fan and thought he earned that win in Nice, but I do sympathize with what you're saying. It's pretty undeniable now that Chan is not connecting with a lot of audiences, maybe even most of them. If he continues to fail to connect with so many people, while winning as much as he did, that's not good for the popularity of men's skating. However, the idea that something like this would permanently depress the sport is a silly one. These things happen in all sports: a dominant competitor/team on a streak is one that most people don't like. Streaks end, new challengers who are more popular wind up succeeding. And of course, rules can change. I'm surprised they didn't seem to pass any new rules addressing Chan's much-booed win.

I do think as it is currently done, PCScoring seriously undervalues artistry, performance ability and musicality. Perhaps, behind the scenes, judges will get some severe memos reeducating them in this regard. In which case, Chan may see his PCS drop back to Earth and Takahashi would get a serious boost (and deservedly so).

We might be going back to Salt lake city if we let booing influence rules and or judges. Besides if we are to be fair; Patrick's style is introvert most like extrovert. And in comparison lucky Kostner, overrated Witt, tiny triple Tara, Plushy, Evan and Joubert in comparison have been far more overmarked pc wise than Cahn no matter how you look at it. If we are upset about Chan's win, and I prefer Dai far more with his theatrical style and power jumps woven in so well to his program, then let us yell and scream about those other skaters who won far more controversially.
 
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