Jason is only 17 years old. He's risen steadily in the ranks. He's serious about his skating and no doubt knows emphatically that he needs a 3A and a quad. I'm sure he's working diligently on getting both those jumps. Does anyone think he needs to either leave his coach for someone with a higher profile and perhaps more experience with a skater on his level or maybe get a jump coach on his team?
I don’t get mad when poor students get scholarship, and I don’t have problems with people getting sponsorships or donations to help funding. But I think it’s unfair to all other skaters if a rich student gets financial aid. What Han Yan gets is financial aid, not scholarship. The USFS and the JSF operate under the scholarship system, which is different than how the Chinese fed spends money on Han Yan. A rich student should pay for his/her own fees, no need for financial aid. Since Han Yan is competing at international competitions against non Chinese skaters, I think it is unfair to his competitors.
You’re Chinese, so you know that many Chinese only make like $800 each month and they still need to pay taxes. If they know their money is wasted on a second-generation rich, I bet 90% or more of Chinese taxpayers would not want to pay taxes anymore. They would want to save their money so they can buy a mini apartment or send their children to better schools. Most Chinese never stay in a villa throughout their whole life.
If Yan likes to skate, then he should use money from his rich family, or he can get sponsorships or fan donations. No problem with all that, as the sponsors and donators would pay for his costs voluntarily. But now he’s using money of other taxpayers, who need financial aid more than himself. If the majority of taxpayers know this, then they will be more unhappy than those 0.001% taxpayers who are Yan’s fans. This whole thing is not only unfair to fellow Chinese taxpayers but also a form of corruption.
First of all, no need to underline the word “deserve.” I did not choose to use that word. Another Chinese fan iceflame used it. I just quoted her. And we were discussing why Han Yan deserved to train at Ice Castle for free + to stay in some nice villa for free and does that mean other skaters did not deserve to have all their expenses covered? We were not discussing whether Yan deserves to compete seniors, so no need to mix the two topics together.
Second of all, I’m not the one who started the discussion about how rich Yan’s family is. If you read my first post #55, I said the Chinese fed is spending big money on Yan without getting into Yan’s own family economy. Then Serious Business asked me “do you get mad when a poor student gets a scholarship?” I had to clarify and tell her that Yan is not a poor student. Why are you trying to mix my clarification with whether Yan deserves to compete seniors?
Third of all, what I said about whether Yan competes seniors is this: the officers of the Chinese fed are his big bosses, and Yan obeys their decisions. What’s wrong with that? If you look at Joshua, the USFS is not paying for all his expenses, but he still has to obey his fed’s decision.
When a federation pays for everything, they call the shots and the skaters do what they're told or they're out of the program. If you want to skate and the federation says no, you don't skate. Katia Grinkov was nearly tossed from the Russian program because they didn't think she was talented enough. She had to beg for her opportunity and she lived in fear they would change their minds. You don't pick you own coach, the federation assigns you to a coach and many of these decisions are based on politics. Japanese skaters can only go to coaches approved by their federation.
In North America, you pay your own way, but if you are successful, you will get a decent amount of funding from your federation. Expenses for international assignments are covered too. If Skate Canada was paying Patrick's expenses, he would not be training in Colorado. He would be in Barrie at the Mariposa Club. I would rather have a situation where the skaters and/or their parents are free to make their own choices based on what works best for the skater.
Haven't read the whole post. Not sure what people are arguing about, but it's silly to say having rich parents is an "unfair advantage." Han Yan's training costs might be sponsored by the Chinese fed and he might have rich parents (I don't know anything about that), but he definitely is good enough to qualify for it based on his results. It's not so easy to make the Chinese national team. How that has anything to do with Josh Farris is beyond me. I mean, the world isn't fair. Isabella Tobias is rich enough to get the best partner she can get. I also happen to think Han Yan has more natural talent than both Farris and Brown, both of whom, mind I say, has very little chance to get to Sochi, whereas Han Yan is a shoo-in at this point. Chinese taxpayers pay for worse things than supporting an Olympic athlete.
That being said, Yan is definitely not the fed's favorite skater, or otherwise they would send him to senior GP. That kid has shown some discipline issue the fed doesn't like. Free money isn't free. Certain things you can't even buy with money.
Last edited by Olympia; 07-21-2012 at 04:31 PM.
Anyways, in terms of Sochi, I'd say both Farris and Brown (3a mastery pending) have a realistic shot. I mean, Abbott will probably be on the team, but he's so inconsistent that even that isn't a given, Weir, we'll see how his comeback goes, it didn't work for Sasha after all, and then there's the likes of Rippon, Miner, Dornbush, Mahbanoozadeh but Josh and Jason really have as good a shot as any of those guys IMO, none of them have a reliable competition quad yet, Josh matched the SB of Miner and Rippon at JW and Jason wasn't far off even without any 3a, and we saw the kind of marks Armin and Ricky got last season...
Idk, I'd say the Sochi team for men is really up in the air at this point. Abbott is a likely member, but he's Abbott, so there are no guarantees. If there's 3 spots, Josh and/or Jason could definitely make it, but in terms of getting 3 spots in the first place, the field is deep so someone will really have to step up between now and Nationals for the team to have a good shot at doing that...
^^ True. Keegan is awesome.
I wouldn't compare Weir to Cohen.
Weir seems very serious about returning to competition and had been training for months before declaring himself for the GP this year, a full season before Sochi. That seems like a full commitment to his goal.
Cohen waited until the summer before Vancouver to start training seriously, and due to injury, she dropped out of both her GP events. She had to debut her programs at Nationals and few were surprised when she failed to make the cut.
I definitely see your point though. I recently listened to Manleywoman's podcast with Sasha Fadeev, where he said that the pressure within the Soviet system was much higher than the pressure in North America since the federation had certain leverage in affecting other parts of one's lifestyle, with regards to housing, the ability to get an education, etc., and because of that, skaters had to agree to whatever the federation wanted them to do. Of course, this was back in the Soviet days, and I'm sure it's not quite like that in Japan or even Russia or China nowadays, but still.
He also made the point that in NA, succeeding has more to do with one's will, though I would add one's financial capabilities too. The downside to being able to have more control over your own training and skating is that you have to be the one to fund all of it. In the end, there are advantages and disadvantages to both, and neither system is perfect.
Last edited by Victura; 07-21-2012 at 08:23 PM.
I don't know whether Chinese skating has changed since the days when Shen and Zhao were training, but it was very grueling, Spartan, and restricted at that point. The economic improvements in China may have resulted in changes for the better. I remember reading that the skaters weren't allowed to date anyone. At that point, Hongbo Zhao was in his late twenties, and I can't imagine any American skater, or even any Russian skater for that matter, being told that he wasn't allowed to have a social life at all at that age. (Try to envision anyone telling that to Plushenko, or to Oksana Grishchuk.) I can see that kind of restriction with fifteen-year-old gymnasts, but not in men who would be old enough to run for the U.S. House of Representatives (and who, incidentally, are strong enough to hold a full-grown woman aloft on one hand).
Last edited by Gliding on ice; 07-22-2012 at 05:13 AM.