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Thread: Should US have gun control?

  1. #76
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Chris, I know that very few current and retired police happily go around shooting people for trivial reasons.

    You're wrong that it is the responsibility of the feds to do something about gangs in a town; it is the responsibility of the police there.

    And the assumption that all the guns owned by gangs are illegal guns is simply not true. It's so easy in the US to buy guns in many states that a lot of the guns are legal. Since you can buy guns legally over the internet without a background check, the only reason to go to the trouble to get an illegal gun is because it is cheaper.

    I told you about the gang gun fight in Tampa area where both gangs got off for shooting at each other since both invoked Stand Your Ground and the guns were legal did I not? And they had concealed carry permits as well as legal guns.

    Here's another one:

    Elsewhere in the state, drug dealers have successfully invoked "stand your ground" even though they were in the middle of a deal when the shooting started.

    In Daytona Beach, for example, police Chief Mike Chitwood used the "stand your ground" law as the rationale for not filing charges in two drug deals that ended in deaths. He said he was prevented from going forward because the accused shooters had permits to carry concealed weapons and they claimed they were defending themselves at the time.

    "We're seeing a good law that's being abused," Chitwood told a local paper.
    Another bad case in Florida, invoking Stand Your Ground

    While many have argued the law does not allow someone to pick a fight and claim immunity, it has been used to do just that. It is broad enough that one judge complained that in a Wild West-type shootout, where everybody is armed, everyone might go free.

    "Each individual on each side of the exchange of gunfire can claim self-defense," Leon County Circuit Judge Terry P. Lewis wrote in 2010, saying it "could conceivably result in all persons who exchanged gunfire on a public street being immune from prosecution."

    Lewis was considering immunity motions stemming from a Tallahassee gang shooting that resulted in the death of one of the participants, a 15-year-old boy.

    The judge said he had no choice but to grant immunity to two men who fired the AK-47 responsible for the death even though they fired 25 to 30 times outside an apartment complex. The reason: It could not be proved they fired first.


    http://www.tampabay.com/news/publics...ing-on/1233133

    In nearly a third of the cases the Times analyzed, defendants initiated the fight, shot an unarmed person or pursued their victim — and still went free.
    (note: they analyzed over 200 cases)



    You are absolutely right about this country doing very little about mental health. One of the most shocking things is the difficulty that people have getting their meds because the meds are expensive, and even if you have insurance, it doesn't pay for the meds.

    You'd think that society would want to be sure that any schizophrenic willing to take his meds can get meds very easily, but it doesn't happen that way very much.

    However
    The American Psychiatric Association’s Paul Appelbaum told Vice President Joe Biden’s gun violence task force that 96 percent of all violence in the United States is committed by people with no mental illness

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/0...#ixzz2Lzs0jF3o
    Meanwhile, today's paper had a story about a Florida 3 year old who took a pistol from underneath one of his parent's pillows & shot a family friend in the head. Fortunately, the friend lived, because the 3 year old's aim was not very good.

    And my gun collector friend in CT assures me that it is not all that difficult to purchase a real machine gun legally in CT, although the paperwork is a mild pest. It isn't illegal, despite what I had thought. He reports that shooting it is a real blast too. (He's a lawyer, and undaunted by paperwork.)

    For the record, what I'd like to see are:

    Background checks for all gun and ammunition sales.
    Banning selling guns & ammunition over the internet.
    Repeal of Stand Your Ground laws.

  2. #77
    Custom Title CoyoteChris's Avatar
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    Sorry if I said that it was the fed's responsibility to control gangs.....its the feds responsibility to control organized interstate crime and stop gang members from Illegally getting guns against federal law.
    It is the feds who make many of the drug laws and the DEA helps to enforce them. But if a gang member beats up a druggie for non payment, it is a state issue.
    I have no idea of any gun you can buy legally "over the internet" unless it was made before 1898. Do you have an example? The Gun control act of 1968 took care of that. But you are correct, antiques
    can be had legally as long as state laws are not violated too.
    As far as "Legal" guns being used in crime, what the gangs do is a straw purchase where they get a clean person to purchase a gun and then illegally give it to a gang member. And yes, they can walk through
    the gun show loophole....not at my gun show as everyone must have a badge and a backround check, but at most gunshows...and I am in favor of closing that loophole. But yes,
    if I were to do a crime of passion, I would use a "legal" gun. I am sure some gang members do have CWPs...but they are few. You have to get finger printed to get a CWP. They dont like that.
    Ref machine guns. Yes, that is why I put "etc" in their. Some states like Idaho, you pay a fee, go through the process under the firearms act of 1934, pay a bunch of money, and yes, you are
    correct, you can own a machine gun made before 1986. The irony is that when the law was made, the $200 fee was very high price in 1934...now, it is nothing but with the supply of purchasable
    machine guns fixed, THEIR price has skyrocketed. But what is money to a drug dealer? Still, the pistol is the weapon of choice of most criminals. IIRC, crimes with legal machine guns you could probably
    count on one hand.
    It makes me very sad when a child gets ahold of a gun in a house, and shoots something or someone, and it happens to cop's familys too. I know two troopers that have shot themselves...one in the
    hand and one in the foot. And I know one trooper who was shot in a hunting accident. Airplanes, cars, guns and cell phones are very unforgiving but these "accidents" were all preventable. Tonight the news
    said last year teen age deaths in cars rose 19 percent.....they didnt give a reason but last year there were 200,000 collisions due to cell phones. 3000 dead bodies. These were preventable too.
    Mr. Biden's task force opinions are interesting. But take away the gang violence and define mental illness and we can talk. If I put on my artificial legs and shoot my girl friend through a bathroom closet door
    after an argument, am I mentally ill? I really cant answer that. But the kids who sit in the basement playing video games and dreaming of death have issues, and the parents dont want to deal with them.
    They scare me more than hunting with Dick Cheney. For the record, I am not sure what "Stand your ground" legally means in WA state. I walk away from trouble if I can. If you shoot someone, even legally, you have lots
    of problems. I have heard a retired trooper friend tell me that if he had a gun and were at a McDonalds when the shooting started, he would think long and hard before shooting back. I can see his point. I hope
    I never have to shoot someone or have to pull my gun again on a human again. And that is probably why I dont carry on my person. But then I hear the latest news today in Spokane, other than the usual gang
    violence, where a 9 year old girl had to run away from a man trying to pick her up in front of a school. What would I have done as a caring person if I was there and she was caught and screamed? I hope I can rise
    to the challange and not walk away. I hope I have the OC10 and the tasar...
    At least most of us here agree that gang violence, mental illness, and child abuse that drives young males to be killers needs to be delt with. It is interesting that very few women are killers out side of crimes of passion
    ....they are out there, but most are males....good discussion...
    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Chris, I know that very few current and retired police happily go around shooting people for trivial reasons.

    You're wrong that it is the responsibility of the feds to do something about gangs in a town; it is the responsibility of the police there.

    And the assumption that all the guns owned by gangs are illegal guns is simply not true. It's so easy in the US to buy guns in many states that a lot of the guns are legal. Since you can buy guns legally over the internet without a background check, the only reason to go to the trouble to get an illegal gun is because it is cheaper.

    I told you about the gang gun fight in Tampa area where both gangs got off for shooting at each other since both invoked Stand Your Ground and the guns were legal did I not? And they had concealed carry permits as well as legal guns.

    Here's another one:



    Another bad case in Florida, invoking Stand Your Ground





    http://www.tampabay.com/news/publics...ing-on/1233133



    (note: they analyzed over 200 cases)



    You are absolutely right about this country doing very little about mental health. One of the most shocking things is the difficulty that people have getting their meds because the meds are expensive, and even if you have insurance, it doesn't pay for the meds.

    You'd think that society would want to be sure that any schizophrenic willing to take his meds can get meds very easily, but it doesn't happen that way very much.

    However


    Meanwhile, today's paper had a story about a Florida 3 year old who took a pistol from underneath one of his parent's pillows & shot a family friend in the head. Fortunately, the friend lived, because the 3 year old's aim was not very good.

    And my gun collector friend in CT assures me that it is not all that difficult to purchase a real machine gun legally in CT, although the paperwork is a mild pest. It isn't illegal, despite what I had thought. He reports that shooting it is a real blast too. (He's a lawyer, and undaunted by paperwork.)

    For the record, what I'd like to see are:

    Background checks for all gun and ammunition sales.
    Banning selling guns & ammunition over the internet.
    Repeal of Stand Your Ground laws.

  3. #78
    Custom Title CoyoteChris's Avatar
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    By the way, there is a legal way, which I want closed, to buy a gun through the paper or through the web as long as its the same state and shipping isnt involved. If I lived in your state and you had a gun for sale and you put it on the web, we could meet and do a legal exchange. at least in WA you can do that. Federal inforcement of certain situations used to be very spotty. If I go to a gun show in Idaho and buy a rifle, I have commited a federal offense unless I go through a dealer. It is unclear to me what happens if my father dies in California and leaves me a gun in his will and I am there for the funeral and mom gives me the gun. But if I go to Idaho and purchase a pistol from an individual or a dealer, the gun must be transfered to me through a dealer in WA.
    There are 20,000 gun laws and I have stumped even the BATFE agents with questions. For instance, if I go to Idaho and purchase a model of 1891 Argentine Mauser made by Lowe, we all know it was made before 1898 as Lowe became DWM in 1897. But if the same gun was made by DWM, we really dont have a good idea of when it was made cause the records are gone. The ruling in my case was since the gun was the same design, I could buy the gun. But later I found out that was not true. Buy a model of 1891 Mosin Nagant for $100 made in 1902, and it is not an antique under the law. Go figure.

    Interesting video about the police in Florida and elsewhere...while civilians are usually at the scene of a crime before the police, it is not always so....this is one reason I chose not to be a police officer and instead be a police helper.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Wxtnt1_WIE
    Last edited by CoyoteChris; 02-27-2013 at 12:37 AM.

  4. #79
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    I can't weigh in right now because I'm at work, but I wanted to say that this is a really interesting, thoughtful conversation, everyone.

  5. #80
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Yes, in any state, as far as I know, you can buy a gun legally on Craig's List, as long as you aren't going across state lines to pick it up.

    There are 24 states that have sweeping Stand Your Ground (aka known as Shoot First or Make My Day) laws, like Florida's. Florida was the first state to have one of these laws, dating from 2005.

    This website lists 24 states that it regards as having some version of Stand Your Ground. It has links to the specific laws.:

    http://www.propublica.org/article/th...-like-floridas

    Washington

    RCW 9A.16.050

    Homicide — By other person — When justifiable.

    Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:

    (1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his or her presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

    (2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his or her presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he or she is.



    [2011 c 336 § 354; 1975 1st ex.s. c 260 § 9A.16.050.]
    Florida
    The 2012 Florida Statutes

    Title XLVI
    CRIMES Chapter 776
    JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE View Entire Chapter

    776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.—(1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:
    (a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and
    (b) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.
    (2) The presumption set forth in subsection (1) does not apply if:
    (a) The person against whom the defensive force is used has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or vehicle, such as an owner, lessee, or titleholder, and there is not an injunction for protection from domestic violence or a written pretrial supervision order of no contact against that person; or
    (b) The person or persons sought to be removed is a child or grandchild, or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of, the person against whom the defensive force is used; or
    (c) The person who uses defensive force is engaged in an unlawful activity or is using the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle to further an unlawful activity; or
    (d) The person against whom the defensive force is used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who enters or attempts to enter a dwelling, residence, or vehicle in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person entering or attempting to enter was a law enforcement officer.
    (3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
    (4) A person who unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter a person’s dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle is presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence.
    (5) As used in this section, the term:
    (a) “Dwelling” means a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, which has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night.
    (b) “Residence” means a dwelling in which a person resides either temporarily or permanently or is visiting as an invited guest.
    (c) “Vehicle” means a conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, which is designed to transport people or property.
    History.—s. 1, ch. 2005-27.
    Some of the 26 other states have "Castle Laws" that allow you to shoot people when you are in your own home, but not in the public street

    Other states require you to have made some attempt to retreat or do something else that demonstrates when you shot someone, it was in self defense.


    The requirements in FL to legally kill someone:
    1. You must own your gun legally.
    2. You must be in something like the public street or your house
    3. You claim, and are believed, that you felt in fear of your life.
    4. You cannot be proved to be doing something illegal.

    That's it.

    In fact, I suspect that's why I keep seeing gang folk killing people with legal guns and having concealed carry permits.
    They can literally get away with murder. The dead guy does not contradict you.

    As I said above, quoting the Tampa Bay paper, over 30% of the over 200 cases of Stand Your Ground they were able to document (that's more than 60 people) got shot or otherwise attacked while being unarmed and retreating, and the Stand Your Ground person was pursuing them.

    That's just wrong.

    I know 2 cases where a black guy playing music loud in a car was shot to death, and the shooter made "Stand Your Ground" work for himself.

    But it's no wonder that we have felons with legal guns in FL-having a legal gun is a defense against a murder charge. It gives you one free murder; and maybe more, since if your first Stand Your Ground case works for you, you are blameless and can go out and murder someone else.

    How to Buy a Gun over the Internet in Southwest FL
    http://mynationalarmory.com/Page4.html

    ABC News on buying guns over the internet
    http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Indus...3049709&page=1

    Josh Horwitz, executive director of the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, said that about 60 percent of guns are purchased through licensed dealers. The other 40 percent are sold at gun shows, person-to-person sales and through the Internet.

  6. #81
    Custom Title CoyoteChris's Avatar
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    OK, I think we have a problem of semantics. When I hear, "Buying a gun (or anything else) over the internet" I think of doing something without personal contact and using shipping. In the case of Craigs list, etc, only advertising is done over the internet.
    That was a good link you sent but I am here to tell you in practice, if you click on the WA state link, it just doesnt refect the truth of what will happen to you. I dont know what would happen in Florida or Arizona but in WA If the district atorney feels he has a case against you for shooting the guy stealing your car full of weapons and your dog, he will prosecute you and let the jury make the decision, while your bank account goes dry. Then, the relatives of the deceased will go after you in the civil courts. Win or loose, you loose. Ask your lawyer friend what happened to all those people who sued the bars with those mechanical bulls after they signed the waiver, got drunk, and got hurt. The waivers didnt mean a thing. They won in court and the bulls disappeared. (I was in Illinois at the time) The waivers on the tickets at the Reno air races didnt mean a thing when the race plane went into the crowd, either....people sue, DAs prosecute, the jury decides...and that is why I am here to tell you, my friends and I, law enforcement or not, are very careful as to what we would do in a tense situation. But every one of us wants the options available...the tools...to make decisions with. Prayers for all the peace officers that tonight will have to answer the call for a "domestic" and have to protect themselves and innocents from what may be nothing or everything. And for the honest citizens that will be doing much the same thing. (BTW, the would be child abducter in Spokane of yesterday has not been caught...he is still out there...waiting in the dark in his hole....

    I am curious about your observations of Florida. I hate to play the race card but I think it is relavant. The indiginous people there......are they the issue? When I was there oh so many decades ago, it was my impression that racism was rampent and it was "driving Miss Daisy" all over again. It made me feel very uncomfortable in rural florida. Do you feel, snowbirds aside, that the local population is keeping these "shoot on sight if you feel like it " laws in place as a way of persecuting minorities? The reason I ask is that if those cases happened here, there is no way there would be no consequenses. But it would appear the people there in Florida feel the DA wont go after them as they couldnt find a jury that would agree with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Yes, in any state, as far as I know, you can buy a gun legally on Craig's List, as long as you aren't going across state lines to pick it up.

    There are 24 states that have sweeping Stand Your Ground (aka known as Shoot First or Make My Day) laws, like Florida's. Florida was the first state to have one of these laws, dating from 2005.

    This website lists 24 states that it regards as having some version of Stand Your Ground. It has links to the specific laws.:

    http://www.propublica.org/article/th...-like-floridas

    Washington


    Florida


    Some of the 26 other states have "Castle Laws" that allow you to shoot people when you are in your own home, but not in the public street

    Other states require you to have made some attempt to retreat or do something else that demonstrates when you shot someone, it was in self defense.


    The requirements in FL to legally kill someone:
    1. You must own your gun legally.
    2. You must be in something like the public street or your house
    3. You claim, and are believed, that you felt in fear of your life.
    4. You cannot be proved to be doing something illegal.

    That's it.

    In fact, I suspect that's why I keep seeing gang folk killing people with legal guns and having concealed carry permits.
    They can literally get away with murder. The dead guy does not contradict you.

    As I said above, quoting the Tampa Bay paper, over 30% of the over 200 cases of Stand Your Ground they were able to document (that's more than 60 people) got shot or otherwise attacked while being unarmed and retreating, and the Stand Your Ground person was pursuing them.

    That's just wrong.

    I know 2 cases where a black guy playing music loud in a car was shot to death, and the shooter made "Stand Your Ground" work for himself.

    But it's no wonder that we have felons with legal guns in FL-having a legal gun is a defense against a murder charge. It gives you one free murder; and maybe more, since if your first Stand Your Ground case works for you, you are blameless and can go out and murder someone else.

    How to Buy a Gun over the Internet in Southwest FL
    http://mynationalarmory.com/Page4.html

    ABC News on buying guns over the internet
    http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Indus...3049709&page=1
    Last edited by CoyoteChris; 02-27-2013 at 07:46 PM.

  7. #82
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    On race and Stand Your Ground in SW FL, here's what the Tampa paper had to say recently

    ttp://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/criminal/race-plays-complex-role-in-floridas-stand-your-ground-law/1233152

    A Tampa Bay Times analysis of nearly 200 cases — the first to examine the role of race in "stand your ground" — found that people who killed a black person walked free 73 percent of the time, while those who killed a white person went free 59 percent of the time.

    "I don't think judges or prosecutors or whoever works in the field of criminal justice is consciously saying black life is worth less than that of other ethnicities,'' said Kareem Jordan, a criminologist at the University of Central Florida. "But at the end of the day, it could be something that's subconscious going on if you look at how the media depicts black life.''
    The bottom line is that is OK to kill people of either race, but a little more OK to kill black people.



    The Times analysis found no obvious bias in how black defendants have been treated:

    • Whites who invoked the law were charged at the same rate as blacks.

    • Whites who went to trial were convicted at the same rate as blacks.

    • In mixed-race cases involving fatalities, the outcomes were similar. Four of the five blacks who killed a white went free; five of the six whites who killed a black went free.
    For me, the bottom line is how high a percent of people went free after killing somebody.

    Furthermore, the judge can on his own hook decide Stand Your Ground held, and then the case never gets to a jury.

    It's definitely true that all this stuff is wildly different state by state.

  8. #83
    Custom Title CoyoteChris's Avatar
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    I really must say you have openned my eyes about things down there. I have a friend in torrence California who told me years ago the police shoot first and ask questions later down there. Of course, I poo pooed him...then he sent me incidents....like the police openning up on a van they thought might contain the renegade cop recently. Shootings here in the Inland NW seem to be very different than Florida. Most are gangland shootings. Then there are the family and friend disputes, both planned or fueled by alcholhol....to be sure, there is overt racism in North Idaho near here and in rural NE WA that I know of. And people are attacked all the time but in non leathal, non firearm ways...(robbed in the Walmart parking lot at 1 am for instance) And as everywhere, we have gunmen holding up 711s. But few strangers go around shooting other strangers...especially for racism, is pretty rare.
    Meanwhile, organized crime runs rampant....
    SPOKANE, Wash. -- Spokane County Sheriff Ozzie Knezovich is proud of the efforts made by his office and the police department.

    Spokane County worked with the Drug Enforcement Administration and the Los Angeles Police Department to bust up a widespread oxycontin ring.

    The Spokane Regional Drug Task Force executed 16 searches according to DEA agents. Authorities search buildings at 14th and Raymond, Lacey and Indiana, Buckeye and Cuba, Olympic and Cincinnati and West 1st and Washington.

    The oxycontin sweep resulted in 41 people being taken into custody between the two states. Twelve of those suspects were found in Spokane according to a DEA press release.

    The significance of Spokane County's role can be seen in the number of search warrants and arrests made locally. Almost a third of the entire sweep was done here. The connection between Spokane and California isn't anything new when it comes to drug operations.

    "That's why this operation is an example of the great work that the Spokane County Sheriff's Office and the Spokane Police Department have done with our federal partners in order to disrupt the gang and drug activity in our community," said Sheriff Knezovich.

    There's been a a change over time in the meaning of gangs and the sheriff wants the public to realize their changing role.

    "When people think about gangs, they think kids standing on the street corner throwing up signs. Gangs are an organized crime," says Sheriff Knezovich.

    The sheriff also said he appreciated the work of other agencies. There were more than 20 involved in all for this operation. End quote.

    Where is Elliot Ness when you need him?
    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    On race and Stand Your Ground in SW FL, here's what the Tampa paper had to say recently

    ttp://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/criminal/race-plays-complex-role-in-floridas-stand-your-ground-law/1233152



    The bottom line is that is OK to kill people of either race, but a little more OK to kill black people.





    For me, the bottom line is how high a percent of people went free after killing somebody.

    Furthermore, the judge can on his own hook decide Stand Your Ground held, and then the case never gets to a jury.

    It's definitely true that all this stuff is wildly different state by state.

  9. #84
    Custom Title CoyoteChris's Avatar
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    Ran across this....I thought with all the serious stuff, we needed a bit of comic relief....although I really feel for these poor girls who are NOT being properly trained....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=jafkVM-jnbE

  10. #85
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    I dunno.

    After Ski's experience with TSA, I don't find fat guys' pants falling down super funny.

    And it ain't true (which is of course what the guy is trying to imply) that girls can't successfully use shotguns, either.

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012...12-ga-shotgun/

    The above woman certainly was able to successfully stop a home invasion with a shotgun.

    I have no idea how hard it is to shoot and aim a Bushmaster, but it isn't that hard to shoot and aim a shotgun.

  11. #86
    Custom Title CoyoteChris's Avatar
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    Thanks for reminding me I need a bungie to hold my pants up in 7 days...I almost forgot....
    Here is a short vid about the US winning the Woman's Oly gold medal in skeet ...record score...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o65EZjab8Kc

    Many women are better shots than men.....and many girls also.....A woman beat the guys at the national rifle match at Camp Perry this year...People tell me stories of Jennifer Wester at Silouette Nationals in Sub-Juniors....
    You knew she held 20 national, state and local records at one time, setting 17 of them as a substitute at a pennsilvania state match while she was skating out there?

    Chris who spent the whole friggin' day repairing a crashed Win 7 machine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    I dunno.

    After Ski's experience with TSA, I don't find fat guys' pants falling down super funny.

    And it ain't true (which is of course what the guy is trying to imply) that girls can't successfully use shotguns, either.

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012...12-ga-shotgun/

    The above woman certainly was able to successfully stop a home invasion with a shotgun.

    I have no idea how hard it is to shoot and aim a Bushmaster, but it isn't that hard to shoot and aim a shotgun.

  12. #87
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Yes, I knew that about Jennifer Wester; I often wondered whether she would end up in the Olympics in some of the sports that involve guns (biathlon, pistol, rifle, skeet, etc)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shootin...ummer_Olympics

  13. #88
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    I only know about Jennifer Wester because you mentioned her awhile ago, Chris. She sounds impressive! She sounds as if she'd be ideal for Biathlon, because she can both move and shoot. America has never had even a close contender for a biathlon medal, has it?

    Marksmanship turns out not to be dependent on gender. In fact, I noticed with interest that when Iran finally allowed women on its Olympic team, who they sent were marksmanship competitors. Though that sounds counterintuitive at first, because it seems like such an aggressive sport for women who are supposed to be subservient, it actually works perfectly, because the ladies can compete in full veil and gown. The only thing that needs to be free are their fingers and their eyes.

  14. #89
    Custom Title CoyoteChris's Avatar
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    My favorite lady shooter...13 year old Katelyn
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKw42qk6lwM

    Women at Nationals
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTrutPuAbdc

    Tori onaka
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvaCp...0059F370B8329E
    Jesse Duff
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85SPto1SvK0
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    I only know about Jennifer Wester because you mentioned her awhile ago, Chris. She sounds impressive! She sounds as if she'd be ideal for Biathlon, because she can both move and shoot. America has never had even a close contender for a biathlon medal, has it?

    Marksmanship turns out not to be dependent on gender. In fact, I noticed with interest that when Iran finally allowed women on its Olympic team, who they sent were marksmanship competitors. Though that sounds counterintuitive at first, because it seems like such an aggressive sport for women who are supposed to be subservient, it actually works perfectly, because the ladies can compete in full veil and gown. The only thing that needs to be free are their fingers and their eyes.

  15. #90
    Custom Title CoyoteChris's Avatar
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    It could have been possible for her to shoot in a summer and a winter olympics...here is what she does....this guy is a nationals shooting 5 rams in a row on position 8. He knocks them over from left to right at 500 meters. Those rams are heavy so you cant use any sissy calibers....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldd1nn7j3NM
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metalli...uette_shooting
    The ram bodies are 32" long and 12 1/2 inch high. Thats not very big at 500 meters. The bear at our club is three times that big but it is at 1/2 mile away....830 yards. Over nine years of monthly matches, I have only won the bear trophy three times.
    We use single shot black powder target rifles with peep sites....shooting in a prone position or sitting, with cross sticks....
    Here is a pic of shooting a metal buffalo at 800 yards....
    http://s1217.beta.photobucket.com/us...ml?sort=3&o=15
    (buffalo is smaller than a real sized one ) my personal goal is to get into the upper quarter of the 625 shooters that shoot at my nationals every year....last year, I came within one hit out of 48 shots of meeting that goal....and I beat the two time and reigning world champion long range shooter at the 350 yard off hand target ! (disclaimer....the day he shot the offhand target there was a dust storm!)
    http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/...ey2012/q22.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Yes, I knew that about Jennifer Wester; I often wondered whether she would end up in the Olympics in some of the sports that involve guns (biathlon, pistol, rifle, skeet, etc)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shootin...ummer_Olympics
    Last edited by CoyoteChris; 03-02-2013 at 07:10 PM.

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