Should US have gun control? | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Should US have gun control?

CoyoteChris

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 4, 2004
OK, I think we have a problem of semantics. When I hear, "Buying a gun (or anything else) over the internet" I think of doing something without personal contact and using shipping. In the case of Craigs list, etc, only advertising is done over the internet.
That was a good link you sent but I am here to tell you in practice, if you click on the WA state link, it just doesnt refect the truth of what will happen to you. I dont know what would happen in Florida or Arizona but in WA If the district atorney feels he has a case against you for shooting the guy stealing your car full of weapons and your dog, he will prosecute you and let the jury make the decision, while your bank account goes dry. Then, the relatives of the deceased will go after you in the civil courts. Win or loose, you loose. Ask your lawyer friend what happened to all those people who sued the bars with those mechanical bulls after they signed the waiver, got drunk, and got hurt. The waivers didnt mean a thing. They won in court and the bulls disappeared. (I was in Illinois at the time) The waivers on the tickets at the Reno air races didnt mean a thing when the race plane went into the crowd, either....people sue, DAs prosecute, the jury decides...and that is why I am here to tell you, my friends and I, law enforcement or not, are very careful as to what we would do in a tense situation. But every one of us wants the options available...the tools...to make decisions with. Prayers for all the peace officers that tonight will have to answer the call for a "domestic" and have to protect themselves and innocents from what may be nothing or everything. And for the honest citizens that will be doing much the same thing. (BTW, the would be child abducter in Spokane of yesterday has not been caught...he is still out there...waiting in the dark in his hole....

I am curious about your observations of Florida. I hate to play the race card but I think it is relavant. The indiginous people there......are they the issue? When I was there oh so many decades ago, it was my impression that racism was rampent and it was "driving Miss Daisy" all over again. It made me feel very uncomfortable in rural florida. Do you feel, snowbirds aside, that the local population is keeping these "shoot on sight if you feel like it " laws in place as a way of persecuting minorities? The reason I ask is that if those cases happened here, there is no way there would be no consequenses. But it would appear the people there in Florida feel the DA wont go after them as they couldnt find a jury that would agree with them.

Yes, in any state, as far as I know, you can buy a gun legally on Craig's List, as long as you aren't going across state lines to pick it up.

There are 24 states that have sweeping Stand Your Ground (aka known as Shoot First or Make My Day) laws, like Florida's. Florida was the first state to have one of these laws, dating from 2005.

This website lists 24 states that it regards as having some version of Stand Your Ground. It has links to the specific laws.:

http://www.propublica.org/article/t...sweeping-self-defense-laws-just-like-floridas

Washington


Florida


Some of the 26 other states have "Castle Laws" that allow you to shoot people when you are in your own home, but not in the public street

Other states require you to have made some attempt to retreat or do something else that demonstrates when you shot someone, it was in self defense.


The requirements in FL to legally kill someone:
1. You must own your gun legally.
2. You must be in something like the public street or your house
3. You claim, and are believed, that you felt in fear of your life.
4. You cannot be proved to be doing something illegal.

That's it.

In fact, I suspect that's why I keep seeing gang folk killing people with legal guns and having concealed carry permits.
They can literally get away with murder. The dead guy does not contradict you.

As I said above, quoting the Tampa Bay paper, over 30% of the over 200 cases of Stand Your Ground they were able to document (that's more than 60 people) got shot or otherwise attacked while being unarmed and retreating, and the Stand Your Ground person was pursuing them.

That's just wrong.

I know 2 cases where a black guy playing music loud in a car was shot to death, and the shooter made "Stand Your Ground" work for himself.

But it's no wonder that we have felons with legal guns in FL-having a legal gun is a defense against a murder charge. It gives you one free murder; and maybe more, since if your first Stand Your Ground case works for you, you are blameless and can go out and murder someone else.

How to Buy a Gun over the Internet in Southwest FL
http://mynationalarmory.com/Page4.html

ABC News on buying guns over the internet
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/IndustryInfo/story?id=3049709&page=1
 
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dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
On race and Stand Your Ground in SW FL, here's what the Tampa paper had to say recently

ttp://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/criminal/race-plays-complex-role-in-floridas-stand-your-ground-law/1233152

A Tampa Bay Times analysis of nearly 200 cases — the first to examine the role of race in "stand your ground" — found that people who killed a black person walked free 73 percent of the time, while those who killed a white person went free 59 percent of the time.

"I don't think judges or prosecutors or whoever works in the field of criminal justice is consciously saying black life is worth less than that of other ethnicities,'' said Kareem Jordan, a criminologist at the University of Central Florida. "But at the end of the day, it could be something that's subconscious going on if you look at how the media depicts black life.''

The bottom line is that is OK to kill people of either race, but a little more OK to kill black people.



The Times analysis found no obvious bias in how black defendants have been treated:

• Whites who invoked the law were charged at the same rate as blacks.

• Whites who went to trial were convicted at the same rate as blacks.

• In mixed-race cases involving fatalities, the outcomes were similar. Four of the five blacks who killed a white went free; five of the six whites who killed a black went free.

For me, the bottom line is how high a percent of people went free after killing somebody.

Furthermore, the judge can on his own hook decide Stand Your Ground held, and then the case never gets to a jury.

It's definitely true that all this stuff is wildly different state by state.
 

CoyoteChris

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 4, 2004
I really must say you have openned my eyes about things down there. I have a friend in torrence California who told me years ago the police shoot first and ask questions later down there. Of course, I poo pooed him...then he sent me incidents....like the police openning up on a van they thought might contain the renegade cop recently. Shootings here in the Inland NW seem to be very different than Florida. Most are gangland shootings. Then there are the family and friend disputes, both planned or fueled by alcholhol....to be sure, there is overt racism in North Idaho near here and in rural NE WA that I know of. And people are attacked all the time but in non leathal, non firearm ways...(robbed in the Walmart parking lot at 1 am for instance) And as everywhere, we have gunmen holding up 711s. But few strangers go around shooting other strangers...especially for racism, is pretty rare.
Meanwhile, organized crime runs rampant....
SPOKANE, Wash. -- Spokane County Sheriff Ozzie Knezovich is proud of the efforts made by his office and the police department.

Spokane County worked with the Drug Enforcement Administration and the Los Angeles Police Department to bust up a widespread oxycontin ring.

The Spokane Regional Drug Task Force executed 16 searches according to DEA agents. Authorities search buildings at 14th and Raymond, Lacey and Indiana, Buckeye and Cuba, Olympic and Cincinnati and West 1st and Washington.

The oxycontin sweep resulted in 41 people being taken into custody between the two states. Twelve of those suspects were found in Spokane according to a DEA press release.

The significance of Spokane County's role can be seen in the number of search warrants and arrests made locally. Almost a third of the entire sweep was done here. The connection between Spokane and California isn't anything new when it comes to drug operations.

"That's why this operation is an example of the great work that the Spokane County Sheriff's Office and the Spokane Police Department have done with our federal partners in order to disrupt the gang and drug activity in our community," said Sheriff Knezovich.

There's been a a change over time in the meaning of gangs and the sheriff wants the public to realize their changing role.

"When people think about gangs, they think kids standing on the street corner throwing up signs. Gangs are an organized crime," says Sheriff Knezovich.

The sheriff also said he appreciated the work of other agencies. There were more than 20 involved in all for this operation. End quote.

Where is Elliot Ness when you need him?
On race and Stand Your Ground in SW FL, here's what the Tampa paper had to say recently

ttp://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/criminal/race-plays-complex-role-in-floridas-stand-your-ground-law/1233152



The bottom line is that is OK to kill people of either race, but a little more OK to kill black people.





For me, the bottom line is how high a percent of people went free after killing somebody.

Furthermore, the judge can on his own hook decide Stand Your Ground held, and then the case never gets to a jury.

It's definitely true that all this stuff is wildly different state by state.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
I dunno.

After Ski's experience with TSA, I don't find fat guys' pants falling down super funny.

And it ain't true (which is of course what the guy is trying to imply) that girls can't successfully use shotguns, either.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...uders-before-killing-one-using-12-ga-shotgun/

The above woman certainly was able to successfully stop a home invasion with a shotgun.

I have no idea how hard it is to shoot and aim a Bushmaster, but it isn't that hard to shoot and aim a shotgun.
 

CoyoteChris

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 4, 2004
Thanks for reminding me I need a bungie to hold my pants up in 7 days...I almost forgot....
Here is a short vid about the US winning the Woman's Oly gold medal in skeet ...record score...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o65EZjab8Kc

Many women are better shots than men.....and many girls also.....A woman beat the guys at the national rifle match at Camp Perry this year...People tell me stories of Jennifer Wester at Silouette Nationals in Sub-Juniors....
You knew she held 20 national, state and local records at one time, setting 17 of them as a substitute at a pennsilvania state match while she was skating out there?

Chris who spent the whole friggin' day repairing a crashed Win 7 machine.....

I dunno.

After Ski's experience with TSA, I don't find fat guys' pants falling down super funny.

And it ain't true (which is of course what the guy is trying to imply) that girls can't successfully use shotguns, either.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...uders-before-killing-one-using-12-ga-shotgun/

The above woman certainly was able to successfully stop a home invasion with a shotgun.

I have no idea how hard it is to shoot and aim a Bushmaster, but it isn't that hard to shoot and aim a shotgun.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
I only know about Jennifer Wester because you mentioned her awhile ago, Chris. She sounds impressive! She sounds as if she'd be ideal for Biathlon, because she can both move and shoot. America has never had even a close contender for a biathlon medal, has it?

Marksmanship turns out not to be dependent on gender. In fact, I noticed with interest that when Iran finally allowed women on its Olympic team, who they sent were marksmanship competitors. Though that sounds counterintuitive at first, because it seems like such an aggressive sport for women who are supposed to be subservient, it actually works perfectly, because the ladies can compete in full veil and gown. The only thing that needs to be free are their fingers and their eyes.
 

CoyoteChris

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 4, 2004
My favorite lady shooter...13 year old Katelyn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKw42qk6lwM

Women at Nationals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTrutPuAbdc

Tori onaka
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvaCpPLwxsw&list=PLD90059F370B8329E
Jesse Duff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85SPto1SvK0
I only know about Jennifer Wester because you mentioned her awhile ago, Chris. She sounds impressive! She sounds as if she'd be ideal for Biathlon, because she can both move and shoot. America has never had even a close contender for a biathlon medal, has it?

Marksmanship turns out not to be dependent on gender. In fact, I noticed with interest that when Iran finally allowed women on its Olympic team, who they sent were marksmanship competitors. Though that sounds counterintuitive at first, because it seems like such an aggressive sport for women who are supposed to be subservient, it actually works perfectly, because the ladies can compete in full veil and gown. The only thing that needs to be free are their fingers and their eyes.
 

CoyoteChris

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 4, 2004
It could have been possible for her to shoot in a summer and a winter olympics...here is what she does....this guy is a nationals shooting 5 rams in a row on position 8. He knocks them over from left to right at 500 meters. Those rams are heavy so you cant use any sissy calibers....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldd1nn7j3NM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallic_silhouette_shooting
The ram bodies are 32" long and 12 1/2 inch high. Thats not very big at 500 meters. The bear at our club is three times that big but it is at 1/2 mile away....830 yards. Over nine years of monthly matches, I have only won the bear trophy three times.
We use single shot black powder target rifles with peep sites....shooting in a prone position or sitting, with cross sticks....
Here is a pic of shooting a metal buffalo at 800 yards....
http://s1217.beta.photobucket.com/user/CoyoteChris303/media/shooting/buffhunter.jpg.html?sort=3&o=15
(buffalo is smaller than a real sized one ) my personal goal is to get into the upper quarter of the 625 shooters that shoot at my nationals every year....last year, I came within one hit out of 48 shots of meeting that goal....and I beat the two time and reigning world champion long range shooter at the 350 yard off hand target ! (disclaimer....the day he shot the offhand target there was a dust storm!)
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd385/CoyoteChris303/Quigley2012/q22.jpg
Yes, I knew that about Jennifer Wester; I often wondered whether she would end up in the Olympics in some of the sports that involve guns (biathlon, pistol, rifle, skeet, etc)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_at_the_2012_Summer_Olympics
 
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CoyoteChris

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 4, 2004
Interesting shooting in Spokane today....boyfriend gets girlfriend preggers....boyfriend threatens to kill girlfriend...girl friend hides out in the house of another man. The boyfriend get mad (possibley uses alchohol) and crawls into the safehouse with a big knife through the dog door. Man in house has to shoot and kill agressive boy friend. Family of boyfriend urges charges not be filed....none are at this time.
 
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