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Thread: Men's and Ladies' Gymnastics

  1. #271
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I think the biggest Champions on Ice tour was 2002, following the Olympics. 93 cities. The skaters were exhausted.

    Not every skater did every show. As I recall, Sarah Hughes, as Olympic champion, skated last in the shows at the beginning of the tour that she participated in. When Sarah dropped out, they put Michelle in that spot (Fields of Gold). But Alexei Yagudin said, hey, wait a minute. i'm a gold medal winner, too. Michelle only got bronze. So they let Yagudin skate last for a good portion of the tour.

    http://heatherw.com/mk/pics/events/c..._open_judy.jpg

    More Champions on Ice, 2002

    http://www.legendsofhockey.net/Legen...rs/PRT2002.jpg
    That was only time COI came to my city and MK did the last number. Skaters looked kinda numb from what I recall. Oh, and I didn't live far away from a bigger venue but couldn't ever get there.

  2. #272
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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  3. #273
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Thank you.

  4. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    To me, the gymnastics CoP is easier to understand that the figure skating sytem. (Not that I understand it, but anyway...)

    What I got out of the commentary was that the difficulty score is predetermined by the tricks that you chose to include in your routine. So many points for a half-back-pikey-double-sommersault, etc. If you omit or fail to execute a planned element, the difficulty score is reduced accordingly.

    This is sort of like the total element score in skating, but not really. In skating you do not have to do the tricks that you plan, you can substitute a later jump for one missed earlier, etc.

    Then the Execution score. I guess this is sort of like GOE, except instead of giving bonus points for meeting certain bullets or for doing an element with extra flair, the only thing that counts is deductions for specific errors. One point for a fall, three tenths for having your legs come apart when they are supposed to be together, and like that.

    There does not seem to be anything in gymnastics corresponding to program components. No one seems to care if the program as a whole is well-constructed, or if they pay attention to the music on the floor, or anything like that. The idea seems to be, do the tricks, get the score.
    You're mostly right, Mathman. To elaborate a bit, the Difficulty score is determined by the skills you perform plus some extra tenths for tricky connections of two or more skills. There are also competitive requirements that are worth .5 each on each event except vault. The 5 requirements per routine make up a base 2.5 of the difficulty score (assuming you have them all), and the value of a certain number of the hardest skills is added to the top, fewer for women than men. Then the connective value is added in. Most connections award .1, the harder ones .2. The score is not predetermined, but rather based on what you actually do. Skills can essentially be downgraded in gymnastics, too, and gymnasts can move them around in their routines though they very rarely do because it's very difficult to get back on track.

    The execution score is mostly deductions out of a 10.0 start. Though the deductions are specific, they do have a range. Slightly separated legs might be a .1 deduction, but really bad leg separation might be a .3. Badly bent arms might be a .5. There is a deduction for very poor artistry, i.e. lack of choreography or movement quality, of up to .3. Also, there are composition deductions for things like uneven distribution of difficult elements throughout the routine.

  5. #275
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Thanks so much for the information, MoonlightSkater.

    Ladies' gymnastics has changed radically. It seems like the present scoring system both reflects and drives this change.

    Janetfan posted this performance by 14-year-old Dominque Moceano in 1996. Sort of the culmination of the trend that started with Olga Korbut.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6L8aZRDKcw

    We will never see that sort of cutesy dancy routine again -- it does not score enough points.

    I suppose it was sexist and unsporty back in the day to applaud little girls for being cutsey-wootsy while judging the boys on how steady they can hold their iron cross on the rings. I think the audience has matured along with the sport. Now we expect and appreciate strength and difficulty from the ladies, too.

  6. #276
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Thanks so much for the information, MoonlightSkater.

    Ladies' gymnastics has changed radically. It seems like the present scoring system both reflects and drives this change.

    Janetfan posted this performance by 14-year-old Dominque Moceano in 1996. Sort of the culmination of the trend that started with Olga Korbut.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6L8aZRDKcw

    We will never see that sort of cutesy dancy routine again -- it does not score enough points.

    I suppose it was sexist and unsporty back in the day to applaud little girls for being cutsey-wootsy while judging the boys on how steady they can hold their iron cross on the rings. I think the audience has matured along with the sport. Now we expect and appreciate strength and difficulty from the ladies, too.
    Here is the best clip I have seen of Olga's legendary floor routine from1972.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJXXGyVly_g


    The charm and beautiful expression Olga brought to gymnastics was perhaps the single greatest influence on (women's) gymnastics in USA. Olga's impact was so great she became one of the few athletes that actually transcended her sport.

    BTW, if you listen to the commentary during Moceanu's floor routine you will hear "and another Russian just fell off the beam."

    Khorkina was not exaggerating when she said the crowd noise was so loud in Atlanta it was blowing girls off the beam.
    Last edited by janetfan; 08-18-2012 at 10:10 AM.

  7. #277
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Here is the best clip I have seen of Olga's legendary floor routine from1972.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJXXGyVly_g

    The charm and beautiful expression Olga brought to gymnastics was perhaps the single greatest influence on (women's) gymnastics in USA. Olga's impact was so great she became one of the few athletes that actually transcended her sport.
    To the American people she brought a little spark of warmth to the cold war.

    Here is a clip about the Netherlands team that won the first Olympic gold medal in women's gymnastics, competing in synchronized floor calisthenics in 1932. (The actual competitive team is the eight ladies exercising together in at the end of the clip. The first segment is an exhibition by a larger team and the middle part shows the men's vault. (Evidently they sent their best vaulter first so that he could stand there and catch the others if they fell. )

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJHcn3PUGzA

  8. #278
    Rinkside
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    I apologize if this has been posted somewhere else but IOC has updated all their London 2012 Olympic videos on their youtube page.
    All Artistic and Rhythmic gymnastic (some with BBC commentary) videos as well as other sports should be found here.

    All sports: http://www.youtube.com/user/olympic/videos?view=1

    Artistic: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...3&feature=plcp

    Rhythmic: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...3&feature=plcp final: http://www.youtube.com/user/olympic?v=y-nyuuqmfVo
    Last edited by gato; 08-21-2012 at 09:35 PM. Reason: links

  9. #279
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    cool. thanks!

  10. #280
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    Tremendous news! Thanks. Serious Business thought very highly of the BBC coverage, so it will be nice to see some of it.

  11. #281
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
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    I'm feasting on replays-not sleeping!!!! oh dear, so much to see i missed in the games...it could take months catching up, thanks much for this link to IOC youtube

  12. #282
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Here ar Aly Raisman and Gabby Douglas at the Golden Globes.

    http://morethan-stats.com/wp-content...red-carpet.jpg

  13. #283
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathman View Post
    here ar aly raisman and gabby douglas at the golden globes.

    http://morethan-stats.com/wp-content...red-carpet.jpg
    wow!

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