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Thread: Men's and Ladies' Gymnastics

  1. #16
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    These rules are crazy Jordan is World Champion and will not be in the 24? Because each country gets two? East Podunk gets two? Poor Jordan. I cried for her.
    No each country does not get 2. Each country can get up to 2 but you have to qualify in the top 24. So no country is even guaranteed "one spot" This rule has been place for along time. Gabby Douglas (you know the girl that really replaced Jordyn even if she was considered up there with Wieber) placed 2nd qualifier. She was 5th in prelims last year. Nobody cried or screamed for her. Screamed unfairness. What did Gabby do? Gabby went home and upgraded her routines.. What did Aly Raisman do. She went home upgraded her routines.

    What did Jordyn NOT do. Jordyn didn't go home and upgrade her routines. Thats why she got surpassed. It doesn't matter what the media says. Jordyn was not going to win here unless some others screwed up.. She doesn't have the routines to do so this year. Last year she won over an injury depleted field because she had a more difficult. And Jordyn BARELY one that....They girl she won was competiting with only 3 full months of training and so had to water down her program and had a bit time dfificulty disadvantage. Vault especially got watered down. It should have been disconcerting to Team Wieber that it was close. It should certainly not have been a sign for no new materialized upgrades.

    Komova went hope (now has the Amanar back and other upgrades every where she's upgraded by well over a point. And then Jordyn's teammates upgraded and closed the gap on vault. Not a shocker at all.
    Last edited by bekalc; 07-30-2012 at 07:15 AM.

  2. #17
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    You sound as if you have really been following gymnastics. Thanks for your insights! I was hoping a gymnastics buff would speak up on here with details about the competitors' preparations and known abilities. All I know is what I hear from the commentators on TV and what I've read in Time and Sports Illustrated. (I always buy the Olympic Previews.) So I've never actually laid eyes on any of these athletes, and of course they all look good to me. (I couldn't even stand up on a balance beam!)

    I'm wondering whether you or anyone else on GS has anything to say about my personal favorite discipline, rhythmic gymnastics. This year apparently we have a competitor, a lone one, which leads me to hope for some televised coverage. I love watching the sport, though I'm pretty much totally ignorant about it. I don't even know whether they are usually part of international gymnastics competitions such as the World Championships.

  3. #18
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    I follow rythmic but with few exceptions I like the ensemble more and watch the results in the season.

    I would like Wieber to have a duel with Komova again in AA, but I didnt like her floor exercice (basically the music and choreo) at all and UB is not her thing too. From the USA team I really really liked Douglas that I didnt know much.
    My best favorite is Iordache and she is injured. :(And I have a soft spot with Ponor cause she is a comeback and I saw her 3 meters away wiining the golds in Athens 2004.


    No Greeks in finals, the one hope that was at the beam came 12th and we have one great athlete in Horizontal Bar who is the current WC and he fell
    Last edited by seniorita; 07-30-2012 at 06:37 AM.

  4. #19
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Bela Karolyi says that "skate order" hurt Wieber's chances in the floor exercise. Countries usually put their number one performer last, so judges tend to give more generous marks to the last one up.

    I agree with bekalc, though. The same thing happened to her as to Shawn Johnson lthe last time around. Bad timing, peak too soon, whatever you want to call it. Last year she was the best. But you can't be the best forever. If you stand still others will catch up.

  5. #20
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    Thanks, everyone!

    Seniorita, I'm sorry that your horizontal bar champion didn't qualify for finals. It's too bad there isn't a way for world champions to get some sort of wild-card entry to the finals. It deprives viewers, too, because often those competitors have some really thrilling routine or trick, and we won't get to see it. Wieber and your HB champion would both get in under such a rule.

  6. #21
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    ^Yes that would be great, although this way there wouldnt be much suspense, the world champions wouldnt improve and there wouldnt be the thrilling occasions when someone unexpected wins Khorkina had fallen in UB too!
    But I was looking in the morning past year vids of USA team and it looks like the other two girls in the team have added difficulty in and Wieber didnt, I understand she was the hyped media girl and WC but the others looked like they improved since last year and they earnt it. Her mistakes were minor although I dont understand much about CoP. I didnt like the TV intention to cause more drama and film her crying so much though..
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKUF7Re0P_0

    Maras is 3 times world champion in HB, nevertheless it was not his day and fell so rightfully he is not in the finals, I just feel bad he didnt fullfill his dream.

  7. #22
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    We've all lived through those moments of disappointment in skating, with admirable and popular skaters. It's one of the worst parts of sports, that some of the best people don't even get the chance to be in the record books.

    That's a good point, though, about how people might stand still if they had no incentive to add difficulty to hold onto their place on the team. I hadn't thought about it that way.

    Yeah, I wish they hadn't kept the camera on Jordan's face like that. Thank goodness they at least didn't shove a microphone at her right that instant and ask how she felt. That would have been inexcusable.

  8. #23
    Currently frozen as a popsicle Chemistry66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    We've all lived through those moments of disappointment in skating, with admirable and popular skaters. It's one of the worst parts of sports, that some of the best people don't even get the chance to be in the record books.

    That's a good point, though, about how people might stand still if they had no incentive to add difficulty to hold onto their place on the team. I hadn't thought about it that way.

    Yeah, I wish they hadn't kept the camera on Jordan's face like that. Thank goodness they at least didn't shove a microphone at her right that instant and ask how she felt. That would have been inexcusable.
    After Becca Bross injured her knee really badly at Visa Nationals last August when landing her vault, the camera kept showing her on the ground holding her leg and crying.

    NBC just likes showing the drama.

  9. #24
    Custom Title heyang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deedee1 View Post
    P.S. Sorry about Jordyn Wieber. Sad to say but it happens to many sports to limit the number of spots to each country: e.g. only one spot for Judo, two spots for table tennis, and of course three at the maximum for figure skating...I am old enough to accept all the reasonable reasons, but I still get frustrated sometimes why all the world's best athletes can't participate in the biggest competitions such as the Olympics and the Worlds, which they have dreamed about and worked so hard for all these years... I feel for them.
    In some ways, I understand the reasoning. If the top 5 of 24 were all from a single country, it would greatly reduce the chances of any other country winning a medal in the all-arounds. However, it is deeply sad for the athlete to miss out because of being # 3 for her country although # of 24. It likely happened with the other stronger teams, as well, but NBC would only highlight Jordan as a member of the US team and current World Champion. Would it be fair to have an addendum that says if you are #3 from your team and world champion, then don't allow #25 to compete in all around? If I think about it later, I might go look to see how many other #3's per country were in the top 24 and cut.

  10. #25
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Skaters get cameras shoved in their face in the K&C and the mixed zone, and we think of it as part of the sport. Being a high profile athlete sometimes means dealing with disappointment in the public eye. It sucks, but it's part of the deal.

    Unlike skaters, Jordyn Wieber will still have a chance to win a (gold) medal in FX (unlikely, I understand?) and the team AA. I'm sure Kurt Browning would have loved another shot at a medal in Albertville and Lillehammer (or use whatever other skater who didn't medal as an example).

    That said, only two per country is a stupid rule. But I'd rather watch rhythmic and men's artistic gymnastics anyway - rhythmic is so pretty, and the male gymnasts' upper body strength is amazing.

  11. #26
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    I'd love to see top 10 or 12 in the event finals rather than just top 8 too.

  12. #27
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    Skaters get cameras shoved in their face in the K&C and the mixed zone, and we think of it as part of the sport. Being a high profile athlete sometimes means dealing with disappointment in the public eye. It sucks, but it's part of the deal.
    I think the fact her teamate was enthusiastic about her Q and they used Wieber as background drama during the whole interview is what i didnt like. Maybe there are as much incidents in fs I just dont remember them. It is just that gymnastics has a sense of team together and rivarly inside the team at the same time, which is cruel feeling.

    Spolier: I m happy for GB men winning their first team medal since 1912

  13. #28
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    I think the fact her teamate was enthusiastic about her Q and they used Wieber as background drama during the whole interview is what i didnt like. Maybe there are as much incidents in fs I just dont remember them. It is just that gymnastics has a sense of team together and rivarly inside the team at the same time, which is cruel feeling.

    Spolier: I m happy for GB men winning their first team medal since 1912
    It's sort of like Team Canton, I guess - oh, to be a fly on that wall...

    I am pleased about the spoiler, too. Now on to the individual events - more appropriate for fans from smaller countries anyway!

    p.s. I sent you a message earlier.

  14. #29
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Oy as I wrote the spoiler they changed the outcome

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingfan04 View Post
    Anyone watching the women's qualifiying? Canada just made the team final . As a Canadian, I'm so thrilled. Gymnastics has always been a major struggle for us, so this is REALLY huge.

    I've got a question for those of you with some knowledge of the sport. I was watching the floor routine for Victoria Moors CAN, and she seemed to get through really well. Her tumbling passes looked clean, and she did a great job performing between the elements. She actually had a 6.000 in difficulty, which to my knowledge is quite high, and she's been scoring really well all year. Yet, here, with what seemed to be a really strong routine, her execution score was terrible (8.1000) and her overall was a 14.100, which is really low by her usual standard. People thought she had a chance at making the final on floor going in, which her previous scores would suggest was a possibility, so it was surprising to see her drop so low here. Can anyone give some insight? Thanks!
    I'm having a hard time tracking down a video of this, so I've only seen it once on the NBC live stream online and haven't re-watched it to confirm what I think I remember seeing. That said, I recall that she had a couple of fairly large steps after her final tumbling pass that resulted in her going out of bounds. Each step that is wider than shoulder width apart is a .3 deduction. A step that is smaller than shoulder width is a .1 deduction. Going out of bounds with one foot is a .1 deduction, and going out of bounds with two feet is a .3 deduction. If she just took one large step out of bounds, that would be the .3 for the step + the .1 for going out, a total of .4 for that one mistake. Add that .4 back in and she'd have been at a 14.5, which I believe would've been in the top eight and in line to make floor finals. Given that I think she had a couple of steps, her score could've been even a bit higher had she stuck the tumbling pass instead of taking steps. I think that she had two steps, meaning she lost at least .5-.8 on that tumbling pass alone. If I can track down a video of her, or if somebody else does for me, I can explain some of the other deductions. The floor scoring at the Olympics has been a bit tighter than what one might see at a national championships, but overall it's been fairly consistent and I've not seen any scores that were very far from what I expected, at least after I took the time to think through the start values and deductions.

    16.000 difficulty is fairly good for floor. Most of the finalists were between 16.000 and 16.2, with the top difficulty score coming in at 16.5.

    I would like to throw in the disclaimer that I've never judged as high as the elite level, and so my descriptions of the judging, while informed by experience at lower levels and knowledge of the current Code of Points, may not be perfect.
    Last edited by MoonlightSkater; 07-30-2012 at 02:59 PM.

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