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Thread: Men's and Ladies' Gymnastics

  1. #76
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
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    There was a dark haired Russian, mature woman who was so elegant and finished every move. Poron maybe? i can't recall, but the Americans should train some ballet at an early age. I wonder if there are reasons they don't here? The American women are so bulky. I noticed they were like men in upper body. I'd like to see the other nationalities-two was a rip off.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serious Business View Post
    Not any more, not in the US at least. Modern gymnastics, with what their sport's version of the COP looks for, requires all kinds of skills that an older gymnast with a more developed body will find exponentially harder to do, according to competitive gymnasts I've talked to. Jordyn will be 21 by Rio, and I don't see her contending for the all-around. She'd have to be on the team as a specialist. But what would it be? She's great at everything she does but there's no one thing she's astoundingly good at. With the depth of US women's gymnastics, I find it hard to imagine an older and less competitive Jordyn would be able to keep up with the younger American women competing for the spots.
    I have to disagree with this. Many gymnasts have competed more than one Olympics recently. In this Olympics alone, the Russians have a returning gymnast in Ksenia Afanasyeva. The Chinese have Deng Linlin and He Kexin returning, and Jiang Yuanyuan is their first alternate. The Romanians have Sandra Izbasa who upgraded her vaults, is a medal contender again on floor after having won floor gold in 2008, and who competed all around. Catalina Ponor won three golds in 2004, skipped 2008, and came back for the London games with a chance to win a medal on both beam and floor. Neither Sandra or Catalina have ever been very good at bars, sadly, or they could be in the hunt for the all-around. Italy has Vanessa Ferrari who won the worlds in 2006 and competed in 2008. Germany has Oksana Chusovitina who is in her sixth Oympics and who has a chance to medal in vault again after having medaled in 2008. She first competed for the Unified Team in 1992.

    I will grant that none of the major all-around contenders this year are returns. In recent history, however, we've had several return all-around contenders: 2008 had Anna Pavlova who came ever so close to medaling in the all-around in 2004. Svetlana Khorkina competed in 1996, 2000, and 2004 and had a chance at an all-around medal in all three Olympics. Zhang Nan, who won bronze in 2004, had been around for years as well. Romanian Simona Amanar, who won silver (and was controversially upgraded to gold) in 2000, did so in her second Olympics. Svetlana Boginskaya competed in 1988 and 1992 before retiring for a couple of years, but then came back to compete and contend in the all-around in 1996 (she won a European silver but peaked before the Olympics). Shannon Miller, Dominique Dawes, and Kerri Strug all competed in 1992 and 1996. Though they did not compete the all-around in 2000, both Dominique Dawes and Amy Chow made the US team in 2000. In 2004 Mohini Bhardwaj made her first Olympic team after having just missed the team in 1996 and spending four years in college. Annia Hatch won a vault medal for the US in 2004 after missing her chance with Cuba in 1996. Cheng Fei was in her second Olympics with China in 2008.

    I will agree that the biggest problem with the current code of points is that it tends to cause injuries that can limit the career length of many gymnasts. Ironically, the age requirements were moved upward at the same time, meaning that gymnasts have to learn harder skills younger now, but that they may become injured before they are considered age-eligeable for the Olympics. PengPeng Lee of Canada was by far and away their best gymnast in 2008, but she was deemed a year too young. She blew out her knee during the Olympic run-up this year and may have lost her chance at the Olympics. Alicia Sacramone, Shawn Johnson, Nastia Liukin, Chellsie Memmel, and Bridget Sloan (five out of the six gymnasts on the Beijing team) all were hidered by injury in their comeback attempts. Alicia had the best chance at making the team, especially after making the team for worlds last year, but she didn't have time to upgrade after tearing her achilles last year. She still might have made the team had the US not had a need for a bar worker, an event she was so bad at that she stopped training it before Beijing. Nastia had a shoulder injury that limited her training on bars from January through May. Without that injury she would've had a very good chance at the team. Without injuries, all five of these gymnasts would've been right in the hunt for a spot on the team.

  3. #78
    Like subtlety in ice dancing Serious Business's Avatar
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    I think Jordyn may have a second shot at competing in the Olympics all-around if she competed for another country, and she may have had an actual shot at gold if this was pre-FIG CoP. I just don't see a 21 year old winning under the current rules. And I really don't see a 21 year old staying competitive under the brutal, gladiatorial US gymnastics program. The ridiculous amount of injuries suffered by American gymnasts aren't caused by the CoP, but by the ruthless training/competition schedule they have to follow in the US. See this article. Jordyn can either keep herself in the mix for the next 4 years, which would require enduring a really grueling regiment without incurring any debilitating injury, or she can take a break from competition for a few years, and risk losing her skills/reputation/favor. Part and parcel of the Karolyi program is the fact that the US is so ridiculously rife with talented female gymnasts, they can afford to chew them up and spit them out. Jordyn would have to hold back a nonstop horde of fresher, stronger gymnasts while not overdoing it to the point of injury. She's in a couple of catch-22s.

    With all that said, is it totally impossible for Jordyn to make the next Olympic team and compete in the all-around? Definitely not. In fact, I would consider it an epic achievement if she makes it onto the next Olympic team. She would cement her status as a legend and would no doubt win over even more fans and endorsement deals. But it's going to be an uphill climb full of pitfalls.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    There was a dark haired Russian, mature woman who was so elegant and finished every move. Poron maybe? i can't recall, but the Americans should train some ballet at an early age. I wonder if there are reasons they don't here? The American women are so bulky. I noticed they were like men in upper body. I'd like to see the other nationalities-two was a rip off.
    Poron was Romanian. I noticed her too. After the tentative wobblings of the young girls on the balance beam, she was as steady as a rock. Apparently she won the event several Olympics ago, but she won't be in the event finals.

  5. #80
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    In case you haven't yet found it: Eurovision Sports = your friend. This is true for all European sports fans!
    Is eurosport free or you need to pay for eurosport player? I m watching bbc with expat shield, I think their coverage is amazing, a tone of technical mentions and neutral comments.
    Quote Originally Posted by Serious Business View Post
    B) Her rivalry with fellow American Shawn Johnson made for a much more interesting narrative to the American audience than Patterson vs. that sour-faced Russian hag what's-her-name.
    Khorkina was the star of 2004 Games and quite a legend in the sport for calling her like that, nevertheless I was there when Patterson won and she was great.
    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    I love Mustafina and Komova, they r so lovely. I even miss Khorhina-the Russian ladies always seem so stressed. They are all so young...Why are we not eeing any Romanians?

    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    There was a dark haired Russian, mature woman who was so elegant and finished every move. Poron maybe?

    Catalina Ponor is Romanian if you mean her. She won multiple golds in 2004, she comes back now, watch out her beam. Dark haired Russian is Aliya Mustafina, Comaneci has singled her out in 2010 as the one to watch, being different and all around. She has been injured though. Another super hyped Romanian is Iordache, injured too.

    I m sorry to mention it but Wieber is not the only one to suffer from the cruel rule, which exists quite a lot of time anyway. China, Russia and England have also three athletes in the top 24 that wont participate for the same reason. I would love to see Grishina in AA too. It realy bothers me that media make a lot of drama of her not being in AA, it is not a new rule and it doesnt happen for the first time. In Q you fight to be in the top two of your country most of all, besides Douglas totally stole the show yesterday.
    That photo is priceless, best vault of the decade for sure

  6. #81
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    Is eurosport free or you need to pay for eurosport player? I m watching bbc with expat shield, I think their coverage is amazing, a tone of technical mentions and neutral comments.
    Eurovision sports, not Eurosport. It is gloriously free if you live in an EBU country, which I believe you do or you wouldn't have top ten Eurovision entries every year They have 12 live streams and you can also choose broadcasts from any of the EBU countries or watch full event replays. It is a fabulous thing and I hope we will have it for Sochi.

  7. #82
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Oh EBU site thanx, I know the site, it is awesome and was watching the Q there but they have no commentary which meant I had to glue on the screen, BBC I can use it as radio too. If you download expatshield which is free you can watch bbc player and rewatch the parts of competiton you like. They also froze Maroney's vault in the air on the replay which was even more amazing to watch.

  8. #83
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    Oh EBU site thanx, I know the site, it is awesome and was watching the Q there but they have no commentary which meant I had to glue on the screen, BBC I can use it as radio too. If you download expatshield which is free you can watch bbc player and rewatch the parts of competiton you like. They also froze Maroney's vault in the air on the replay which was even more amazing to watch.
    You can use the EBU Members Live option instead of the 12 Live feeds one, problem solved... there are several English language streams there, or other languages if you want to practice

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    Poron was Romanian. I noticed her too. After the tentative wobblings of the young girls on the balance beam, she was as steady as a rock. Apparently she won the event several Olympics ago, but she won't be in the event finals.
    Ponor qualified to the beam finals with the eighth highest score in preliminaries. She also qualified to the floor final.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serious Business View Post
    I think Jordyn may have a second shot at competing in the Olympics all-around if she competed for another country, and she may have had an actual shot at gold if this was pre-FIG CoP. I just don't see a 21 year old winning under the current rules. And I really don't see a 21 year old staying competitive under the brutal, gladiatorial US gymnastics program. The ridiculous amount of injuries suffered by American gymnasts aren't caused by the CoP, but by the ruthless training/competition schedule they have to follow in the US. See this article. Jordyn can either keep herself in the mix for the next 4 years, which would require enduring a really grueling regiment without incurring any debilitating injury, or she can take a break from competition for a few years, and risk losing her skills/reputation/favor. Part and parcel of the Karolyi program is the fact that the US is so ridiculously rife with talented female gymnasts, they can afford to chew them up and spit them out. Jordyn would have to hold back a nonstop horde of fresher, stronger gymnasts while not overdoing it to the point of injury. She's in a couple of catch-22s.

    With all that said, is it totally impossible for Jordyn to make the next Olympic team and compete in the all-around? Definitely not. In fact, I would consider it an epic achievement if she makes it onto the next Olympic team. She would cement her status as a legend and would no doubt win over even more fans and endorsement deals. But it's going to be an uphill climb full of pitfalls.
    Ugh, that article. I've read that article. While it does make some good points, most gymnastics experts, even those who agree that the training camps are a little too much, take issue with some things about it. The biggest criticism is that it takes a lot of quotes and anecdotal evidence while using few concrete sources, and that it ignores the fact that the injury rate in other countries has also been extraordinarily high since the implementation of the code. The camp system might need some overhaul, but it seems Marta is already willing to take suggestions from other coaches and at least consider them. John Geddert was able to add some input about the pacing of the gymnasts this year, for example. I'd also like to note that the only injuries sustained in camp before the Olympics were Maroney's broken toe that could happen any time and alternate Anna's injured neck which happened while she was training with her parent coaches and not with Marta's group.

  11. #86
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Wow AA men podium was unrepdictable except for Uchimura of course, he is Daisuke of gymnastics
    Leyva had a fantastic bar, I was like

  12. #87
    Like subtlety in ice dancing Serious Business's Avatar
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    Well, wasn't that some drama at the men's finals!

    Theme of the night: beware the pommel horseman of the apocalypse. John Orozco botched his pommel horse routine again (barfed the ending, if I recall), and knew he lost the medal there. He once again burst into profuse tears. He competed well enough for the rest of the night, though, to come in 8th.

    He was not the only one to be felled by the horse, though. Tanaka Kazuhito of Japan came out really, really strong. Held onto second through most of the rotations, even after he sat his behind down during the floor routine (he had that much of a cushion, pun intended). But then, disaster struck on pommel horse, his last apparatus. His leg hit the side of the implement and had no choice but to fall right off. He went from being a shoo-in for a shock silver (he was a replacement on the Japanese team) to sixth place.

    However, some people could get back on the horse after falling off! Leyva also botched his dismount, losing massive amounts of the D score. But he did not give up. He got a respectable score on floor, subpar but not fatal scores on rings and vault, then came parallel bars. The reigning world champ on the apparatus knew this was his chance. And he took it full force. A beautiful routine on it got him the highest score on the apparatus (which would eventually tie with Marcel Nguyen, more on him later). But the real comeback happened on the high bar, where Leyva had the crowd gasping with massive release skills one after the other. A solid landing later, and he and his coach/step-father knew he was on the podium. They were ecstatic. Since he was one of the last athletes to go, as soon as the scores came up it was confirmed he was on the podium. He'd wind up with the highest score on high bar, and this time he did not have to share that honor.

    And he'd share that podium with yet another competitor who botched the horse! Germany's Marcel Nguyen, who seemingly came out of nowhere, also botched something on the horse (I forgot what it was, though). Enough to leave him in 17th in ranking on that apparatus. But completely unfazed, he nailed routine after routine on all the other apparatuses (except until his last routine, floor, where he faltered a tiny bit, but it was obvious it wasn't enough to jeopardize his silver). The man is something to watch. A delightful combination of power, spryness and flair.

    Then, there's the guy, the gymnast god, really, who fell back to earth after very shaky performances in the qualifications round, and that controversial botched dismount on the evil pommel horse in the team final. Today, Kohei Uchimura tamed that freaking horse. He performed a flawless routine on it, enough to have the second highest score on the device. After that, it was pretty much never in doubt. Sure, now and then there are cracks in his form and power that shows you he's not quite the Superman of yore. But he shook off the Kryptonite during vault, where he exploded in perfect form, culminating in an immovably stuck landing. This was the winning moment of the whole event. It earned him the highest single score of the night, and sealed his gold medal right there. He'd end the night on floor with a pretty big stumble on one of his runs, but his lead could not be surpassed. The man who's generally acknowledged by people in gymnastics to be the greatest gymnast ever proved himself to be just that. Even in an entire competition where he's visibly off, he did well enough in the all-around to have the second highest scores on 3 of the apparatuses, the highest single score overall, and of course, the win.
    Last edited by Serious Business; 08-01-2012 at 01:26 PM.

  13. #88
    Custom Title DianaSelene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    Poron was Romanian. I noticed her too. After the tentative wobblings of the young girls on the balance beam, she was as steady as a rock. Apparently she won the event several Olympics ago, but she won't be in the event finals.
    Catalina Ponor is indeed Romanian. I think she got 3 gold medals in Athens.

  14. #89
    Gambatte, Max Aaron/"No letting off the gas pedal" golden411's Avatar
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    Pls forgive if the following information is redundant; I have not been following this thread closely. But for new as well as long-standing fans of the American gymnasts at the London Olympics:

    I just noticed that Jordyn Wieber, Gabrielle "Gabby" Douglas, Aly Raisman, Danell Leyva, and John Orozco (plus Nastia Liukin) will perform in the skating and gymnastics show - live in Jamestown, NY, on Dec 15, 2012; and televised on Jan 19, 2013.
    Skaters in the show: Meryl Davis and Charlie White, Jeremy Abbott, Ashley Wagner, Alissa Czisny, Maia and Alex Shibutani, Adam Rippon, and Gracie Gold.
    https://www.facebook.com/DissonSkati...13332272095952

  15. #90
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Very happy to see the USA Ladies take the gold. They are one of the greatest teams in the history of the sport as their winning margin showed.

    On another note I love Mustafina.....thought her bars and floor were the class of the competition.

    Wishing her well in the rest of the competition ....and Gabby too!

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