Men's and Ladies' Gymnastics

[skateluvr]

Ponor qualified to the beam finals with the eighth highest score in preliminaries. She also qualified to the floor final.

fabulous, how old is she? I hope we get to see her. She moves beautifully and as Olympia said she was steady as a rock, and fast, too on Beam. She must have a great FX. I am rooting for gabby tho Ally is from my state, and she has been a great team captain. Jordyn seems to have gotten her mojo back. I hope she is relaxed for her FX routine. Is she qualified for any other event? She is a great girl. I hope Nastia is there pushing the girls on.

HERE IS A QUESTION... McKayla's vault was huge and perfect. she looked like an air missile. What did they deduct on? That was as perfect/difficult a vault as anyone ever saw acc or commentary, and she is a phenom. I forget the name of the vault, Amanar? but only she and another US girl I think do it. Please correct me if I missed the correct facts. I was kind of going from bed to LR, having lost the feed near the end.

Serious Business deserves a gold for helping us find leads and facts in the gymnatics thread. I too despised Khorhina in her snooty days, but ya know, she was tall, and did great things. It is wonderful to have tall women who can do this sport as we see so many 4foot 9 inch babies. But as time goes by one misses the primma donnas of the sport. Spitz was male version. Lochte was talking but hasn't lived up. It is just fun when we have the russian divas and divos. I can't imagine rudssian gymnastics without Olga Korbut (no diva but amazing) or the great khorhina. I can't imagine FS without Plush, Artur Dimitriev, Irina, Maria. It is such a cultural thing. They put the color is the sport.

SO who???? is everyone's best guess of the girl who wins the all around? Who are you rooting for? I'm for Gabby as her mother must be in debt and she had to leave home. Such sacrifice in this family. They captured my heart. I hope if she wins she will get some endorsements. It does not seem like Olympic heros are getting their due. I am hoping they will market Gabby to black community who will support her. In skating or gymnastics, she is rare as a girl of color. I think it might ignite some dreams in a community that is doing poorly despite the current president.

Well, we have to wait for thursday for coverage. It will be hard not to read the spoilers.

[Serious Business]

skateluvr I've updated your thread about finding feeds with what I found to be the best way to watch the Olympics yet. It might be slightly technical, but it's very universal and should work on almost any system. So check that out and see if it works for you.

Ponor was beyond fabulous on beam. She moved like falling was never a possibility. So graceful, and dare I say, sensual, too.

My favorite floor routine in the women's team finals was actually Ksenia Afanasyeva. Such incredibly powerful tumbling, combined with amazing style and genuinely great dancing. Too bad she face-planted on the dismount.

I just rewatched a bit of the men's all-around finals on the BBC site. I have no idea what NBC will actually show tonight, given that so many of the contenders aren't Americans (so probably almost nothing?). But hopefully, NBC audiences will get the chance to watch these defining routines:

Kohei Uchimura on vault, Danell Leyva and Marcel Nguyen on parallel bar, and Leyva and Uchimura on horizontal bar. Sergio Sasaki Jr.'s vault also stuck out to me.

[Olympia]

Catalina Ponor is indeed Romanian. I think she got 3 gold medals in Athens.

My deepest apologies to Ponor! I didn't verify the spelling before I posted. (I hate when I do that and goof up a name.) On TV they mentioned at least one prior gold, the one on the beam. I hope we get to see her again during either the AA or the individual events. She made such an impression on me.

Golden411, how wonderful to hear about the gymnastics/skating roster for the show! And it will be televised? I will put it on my calendar right now. So many of my favorite skaters, plus the wonderful gymnasts, even including Nastia! It should be a sight to behold.

[Serious Business]

People who've been watching NBC's primetime Olympic coverage on its main channel, please correct me if I'm wrong. But is it true that as of 10:00 pm, they still haven't shown any men's gymnastics? Do they think the American audience has no real interest in men's gymnastics? Because it's men being judged in an aesthetic sport? Because an American didn't win? What gives? At this rate, given NBC's love of ads, fluff pieces, and pretending their coverage is live (so they'll refuse to edit things down to just the routines), if they started the men's coverage now, they'd be able to show about 5 routines. Very uncool.

Edited to add: just saw for myself that NBC is starting the coverage now. By airing 5 minutes of the athletes walking into the stadium and milling about, even though this is tape delayed by hours and totally superfluous. Oy. Thank god I don't have to rely on NBC for my Olympics coverage. But most Americans do, and this is some pretty major disrespect to the gymnasts.

[Olympia]

I prefer to think of it as making people wait for the premier sport of the night! They will almost certainly devote a longish time to it for the remaining two hours of primetime coverage.

I too am glad that you don't rely on NBC for gymnastics coverage, though, because you are our Explainier-in-Chief this week. I'm learning a lot by reading your helpful analyses.

Currently, Leyva is doing his floor exercise. Splendid! It's astonishing to realize that these folks have the same bones and muscles as I do, and they do such stuff with it all.

[Serious Business]

I am watching the coverage now. I am bemused and to be frank, a bit peeved that Tim Daggett pronounced Kohei Uchimura's name as "Ko-hee". Daggett used to be a gymnast, comments on gymnastics events constantly, how can he not know how to pronounce the name of the most relevant gymnast of the last few years? And shouldn't he know how to pronounce a bit of Japanese names, given that so many gymnastics moves are named after Japanese gymnasts? Al Trautwig is the one who got his name right.

And oh god, ANOTHER fluff piece? With basically the same theme as the first one? When you're trimming the coverage of an entire event of 168 routines to an hour + 45 minutes (provided the rest of the night is all gymnastics) of coverage, do we really have time for fluff?

[golden411]

I have worked in the TV industry, and I will offer an alternate theory as to why NBC started to air men's gymnastics tonight only after 10 pm.

I think that every four years, gymnastics is one of the most popular Olympic sports for TV audiences. To take advantage of that popularity (and to enhance its overall Olympic ratings), I daresay that NBC did not show gymnastics at an earlier hour because it is relying on gymnastic fans to tune in at the beginning of the night and stick with NBC even as it shows other sports first.

In other words, it is exactly because Americans ARE interested in gymnastics that I think NBC makes them wait to see the gymnasts compete. I would not call it disrespect -- to the contrary, it is a reflection of what a big draw the gymnasts are!

[Serious Business]

I considered that too. But past instances of how NBC covered gymnastics at the Olympics belie that. They'd start the broadcast with a bit of gymnastics, maybe a few routines from the first rotation, then cut to another event, then eventually come back to gymnastics. That way, the gymnastics fans, even casual ones, may stop at the NBC broadcast and stay for other events. They're doing none of that tonight. The first time they showed actual gymnastics competition is at around 10:15. They're deeming this yet another event "not tailored to a US audience".

And oh my god, NBC is doing just that now. They're cutting off their already scarce gymnastics coverage to go back to swimming. So they're very determined to just show the routines of the two American gymnasts (John Orozco's routines really aren't worth seeing) and, if the American audience is lucky, a few routines from the eventual winner "Kohee". Disrespect.

[100yen]

And oh my god, NBC is doing just that now. They're cutting off their already scarce gymnastics coverage to go back to swimming.

twitch

Yep this coverage has officially made me loose my mind PS. LET'S SWIM FOREVER AND EVERRRRR!!!

[Serious Business]

twitch

Yep this coverage has officially made me loose my mind

If you refer to my post here on setting up Tunlr, you should be able to access BBC coverage from their officail website even if you're outside the UK. Then, provided you have a reasonably fast internet connection, you can go through their Olympics coverage video archives and stream the entire BBC broadcast of various gymnastics events at your leisure. I hope that helps!

[golden411]

I am watching the coverage now. I am bemused and to be frank, a bit peeved that Tim Daggett pronounced Kohei Uchimura's name as "Ko-hee". Daggett used to be a gymnast, comments on gymnastics events constantly, how can he not know how to pronounce the name of the most relevant gymnast of the last few years? And shouldn't he know how to pronounce a bit of Japanese names, given that so many gymnastics moves are named after Japanese gymnasts? Al Trautwig is the one who got his name right.

And oh god, ANOTHER fluff piece? With basically the same theme as the first one? When you're trimming the coverage of an entire event of 168 routines to an hour + 45 minutes (provided the rest of the night is all gymnastics) of coverage, do we really have time for fluff?

Regarding fluff, this is what USA Today's live blog http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olymp...ics/56668478/1 said tonight:

Pretty touching featurette on U.S. gymnast John Orozco. Says NBC's Al Trautwig, as NBC cuts back to Orozco: "He's a kind and caring soul."

I know I'm being manipulated, but I'm an instant fan of the guy. And that's the point of primetime Olympic TV. [Emphasis added.]

NBC's Trautwig as Orozco gets a not-good score: "His Olympics is over."

And that's why they ran the feature before that declaration.

Fluff is in the eye of the beholder. For the casual viewer, fluff that has good storytelling can make the difference between remaining disinterested and becoming a new fan of a sport or athlete.

And regarding the pronunciation issue:
Was it at Four Continents this year that the announcer mispronounced Scott Moir's last name? Two wrongs don't make a right, but such mistakes happen.
And to my ear, Trautwig and Costas seem to be saying, "ko-hay", vs. Daggett saying, "ko-hee." But isn't the proper pronunciation in between, more like "ko-heh-ee"? I'm half-Japanese, although English is my first language. I defer to native speakers of Japanese - and am not aware whether or not you fit that description, Serious Business.

[Serious Business]

Dick Ebersol, is that you?

But seriously, the only way to make people fans of a sport and its athletes is to actually show them competing. It is utterly indefensible to show a 5 minute fluff piece covering Orozco's background, when they won't bother showing the vast majority of the event he's competing in. This isn't covering a sports event. This is a segment on a news magazine show. It's the middle part of Dateline: Friday. Even worse, they'd just shown a fluff piece 10 minutes ago covering the exact same theme (only with Danell Leyva's background story thrown in). What's the point of a network getting people into the sport if they won't show it?

And what about other athletes? Don't they deserve attention and fans, too? Marcel Nguyen won himself millions of new fans, no doubt, through his Olympic performances alone. Except in the US, where they don't have time to show it. Or fans who remember veteran gymnasts like Fabian Hambüchen who'd have tuned in to see how he's doing, if NBC would only bother showing him.

And even if this has to be entirely about John Orozco, his success and failure means nothing without the context of the competition. If viewers don't see who's beating him, and whom he wants to beat, their attention is going to be short-lived.

Airing time-draining fluff pieces in place of actual coverage is a case of putting the cart before the horse. Or rather, shooting the horse and thinking the cart will just get there by itself.

P.S. I'm not a Japanese speaker, but I've heard enough Japanese announcers pronouncing that name to know it's not pronounced Kohee or anything like it.

[MoonlightSkater]

fabulous, how old is she? I hope we get to see her. She moves beautifully and as Olympia said she was steady as a rock, and fast, too on Beam. She must have a great FX. I am rooting for gabby tho Ally is from my state, and she has been a great team captain. Jordyn seems to have gotten her mojo back. I hope she is relaxed for her FX routine. Is she qualified for any other event? She is a great girl. I hope Nastia is there pushing the girls on.

HERE IS A QUESTION... McKayla's vault was huge and perfect. she looked like an air missile. What did they deduct on? That was as perfect/difficult a vault as anyone ever saw acc or commentary, and she is a phenom. I forget the name of the vault, Amanar? but only she and another US girl I think do it. Please correct me if I missed the correct facts. I was kind of going from bed to LR, having lost the feed near the end.

Catalina Ponor is 24, soon to be 25.

As for McKayla's vault, if I were judging, I would've given it a 10.0. The best vault ever done by a female gymnast deserves a 10.0. However, if I was being rediculously picky to the point of being almost absurd, I might take .1 off for a very slight hip angle at the very beginning of the post flight, possibly .1 for the slightest of slight knee bends at the very end of the twisting, and, if I really was afraid of high scores, I might take off .1 for a very small leg separation in the preflight. That leg separation would be difficult for the judges to see from their position to the side of the vault. I couldn't find any other deduction that I'd even be willing to take if pressed, not even after watching the slow-mo replay, not even foot form. That would allow for a score of 9.7 to 9.8, which is where the judges had her. I can't help but wonder if they are almost afraid to give a 9.9 or 10.0, since it hasn't happened in the last 17 or so years. The degree of perfection they are holding her to is just silly. The 10.0 is an iconic number in gymnastics. While I don't think tens should be handed out willy-nilly like they were in the late 80's, I think that there should still be a slim possibility of getting that hallowed score.

Edit to add: All of the girls on the U.S. team are capable of Amanars, though Kyla's is shaky to the point where she's been practicing double twisting Yurchenkos for the Olympics. (An Amanar is another name for a 2 1/2 twisting Yurchenko. Natalia Yurchenko of the USSR was the first gymnast to do the round-off entry to a back salto vault. Simona Amanar of Romania was the first to do it with 2 1/2 twists. So far as I know, the Yurchenko vault is the first of the major types of vault originated by a female gymnast and later adopted by the men.) Viktoria Komova of Russia has a pretty good Amanar. Maria Paseka, another Russian who made vault finals, also has an Amanar, albeit a somewhat sloppy one. Aliya Mustafina has had an Amanar in the past and has practiced it in London, but she hasn't thrown it in major competition since she tore her ACL on it at the 2011 European championships. Larissa Iordache of Romania is capable of an Amanar, but she has plantar fasciitis (ouch!) and hasn't competed it in London. Huang Qiushang of China has vaulted one, albeit not a great one. In 2008, Jiang Yuanyuan and Cheng Fei, both of China, also vaulted Amanars. Shawn Johnson had an Amanar, as have one or two North Korean gymnasts. Tatiana Nabieva of Russia had a famously sloppy one. A half dozen or so U.S. gymnasts not competing in London also have Amanars, some of them too young for this Olympics. The U.S. is definately leading in the vault category right now. It's too bad that not many American gymnasts learn two different types of vaults so they can qualify for event finals. Alicia Sacramone and McKayla Maroney are exceptions to this rule. Hopefully, with four years to Rio, more of the capable young gymnasts start learning second vaults as a way to differentiate themselves from the crowd.

[MoonlightSkater]

Dick Ebersol, is that you?

But seriously, the only way to make people fans of a sport and its athletes is to actually show them competing. It is utterly indefensible to show a 5 minute fluff piece covering Orozco's background, when they won't bother showing the vast majority of the event he's competing in. This isn't covering a sports event. This is a segment on a news magazine show. It's the middle part of Dateline: Friday. Even worse, they'd just shown a fluff piece 10 minutes ago covering the exact same theme (only with Danell Leyva's background story thrown in). What's the point of a network getting people into the sport if they won't show it?

And what about other athletes? Don't they deserve attention and fans, too? Marcel Nguyen won himself millions of new fans, no doubt, through his Olympic performances alone. Except in the US, where they don't have time to show it. Or fans who remember veteran gymnasts like Fabian Hambüchen who'd have tuned in to see how he's doing, if NBC would only bother showing him.

And even if this has to be entirely about John Orozco, his success and failure means nothing without the context of the competition. If viewers don't see who's beating him, and whom he wants to beat, their attention is going to be short-lived.

Airing time-draining fluff pieces in place of actual coverage is a case of putting the cart before the horse. Or rather, shooting the horse and thinking the cart will just get there by itself.

P.S. I'm not a Japanese speaker, but I've heard enough Japanese announcers pronouncing that name to know it's not pronounced Kohee or anything like it.

If they spent as much time showing routines as they currently do showing gymnasts sitting on the sidelines and adjusting their grips, we could see at least another 20 routines. It'd be nice and fast paced, which I bet would appeal to viewers.

[Serious Business]

If they spent as much time showing routines as they currently do showing gymnasts sitting on the sidelines and adjusting their grips, we could see at least another 20 routines. It'd be nice and fast paced, which I bet would appeal to viewers.

Oh I know! I'd actually watch that even if I've seen the live broadcast already. It'd make for a lovely recap. And they could totally edit it in a way to still preserve the illusion that it's live for the people who are still susceptible to that charade. It'd just take some imagination which the NBC executives utterly lack.