2012 - 2013 Russian skaters, rules, and events

[hanca]

Gerbodlt/Enbert are injured and will be out for 2012-2013 season,
Maisuradze and his new partner ? I doubt a newly created partnership will really do well....
Nodari's new partner is a young girl but we still have to wait for the Russian Cup Series how they will do

the possible Top 1-4 at Russian Championships
are between Volosozhar Trankov, Kavaguti-Smirnov, Bazarova-Larionov, Stolbova-Klimov

so their direct competitor for 5-6th placement is Martiusheva-Rogonov who also have jump issues.

I wouldn't discount Maisuradze and his new partner, considering how quickly Gerboldt and Enbert learned the pair elements and how successful they were in their first season. I know she is a young girl who was doing singles, but considering how deep the field is with Russian young girls, the chances are that she is really talented, and in December (when the nationals are) they would already be together for about 8 months. That could make them threat enough for fight for the fifth place (I agree with the first four being Volosozhar Trankov, Kavaguti-Smirnov, Bazarova-Larionov, Stolbova-Klimov, unless something really unexpected happens.

There also may be other competitors though. At the moment Lina FEDOROVA / Maxim MIROSHKIN and Maria VIGALOVA / Egor ZAKROEV are having very comparable results at JGP as Davankova/Deputat. Which means that although they are also just juniors, potentially they could fight for their places at Russian senior nationals too. Last year Davakova/Deputat placed very well at senior nationals, so why those other two junior pair couldn't try and fight for the 5-6 place?

[AlexRus]

I wouldn't discount Maisuradze and his new partner

New partner has the name - Julia Antipova, born 18 Dec 1997.
She was an Junior Lady skater, and at spring 2012 (after season 2011/12) became partner of Maisuradze.
She had practically no chance to be in Ladies top because of a lot of better girls. She has a good constitution for pair skating (small, light, not very long legs), jumps good enough for pair skating.

[AlexRus]

http://www.team-russia2014.ru/article/5147.html (Russian)
Translated by me.

Nodari Maisuradze: Julia Antipova isn't 15 years old yet therefore we have no right to participate at Senior competitions
18.09.2012 16:11:01 | Figure skating | News

Nodari Maisuradze, Russian skater, the world junior champion of 2009 together with Lyubov Ilyushechkina, skates now with the new partner – Julia Antipova. The fourth stage of the Cup of Russia which will be on December 4-8 in Moscow will become the first official start of new pair. 24-year-old Nodari Maysuradze told about plans and tasks to the special correspondent of a portal of TEAM RUSSIA-2014.


«With new partner Julia Antipova on ice we train only two months, - told Nodari Maisuradze. – Certainly, now it is difficult certain to speak about something particular, but somehow at once it began to turn out. Coach Arthur Dmitriev who since May works in Natalia Pavlova's group helped us very much. With him we e learned difficult elements – in particular, throws. Now in 98 cases from 100 throw jumps began to turn out. It is very good that life brought us together with such coach when our pair began to develop only. Arthur very clearly explains all, therefore we seize hurriedly. We prepared two programs for this season: short – "Kalinka", free – Take Five. But over any program it is necessary to work much. The first start we plan at the Moscow Event of the Cup of Russia which will be on December 4-8. The main thing for us now – to skate without mistakes. Theoretically we could be selected on the championship of Russia. But Julia isn't 15 years old yet therefore we have no right to participate at Senior competitions».


«My former partner Lyubov Ilyushechkina went to France, - specified Nodari Maisuradze. – And, apparently, will compete for this country. Skates with the French partner Yannik Kokon. I don't know any details. It seems, this pair allowed to compete in a year – quarantine will pass, all ban will be removed. But to miss no time, pair plans to participate in local competitions in France».

===
My comment: Sotnikova, Tuktamysheva, Lipnitskaia, Radionova, Medvedeva competed at Russian Nationals at 12 (also Vygalova from pair Vygalova/Zakroev was 12 at Senior Nationals-2012) - so age of 14-years-old Antipova is not a problem. Most probably, Nodari understands that pair is not ready to Nationals.

[hanca]

http://www.team-russia2014.ru/article/5147.html (Russian)

===
My comment: Sotnikova, Tuktamysheva, Lipnitskaia, Radionova, Medvedeva competed at Russian Nationals at 12 (also Vygalova from pair Vygalova/Zakroev was 12 at Senior Nationals-2012) - so age of 14-years-old Antipova is not a problem. Most probably, Nodari understands that pair is not ready to Nationals.

But Nodari did not say that they are not ready for nationals. What he said was that they will do Cup of Russia in December, and they may qualify for Russian nationals (seniors). His remark that "Julia isn't 15 years old yet therefore we have no right to participate at Senior competitions" I understood in the sense that even if they placed well at the Russian nationals, they won't be able to compete at Europeans or Worlds.

[AlexRus]

I understood in the sense that even if they placed well at the Russian nationals, they won't be able to compete at Europeans or Worlds.

Yes, you are right. When translating, understand not so good, because think only how to translate.
And they can not be at WJC, Nodari is too old (born 18 Feb 1988).

There is a lack of female partners for pair skating in Russia.
Young Antipova (not very good in singles) got famous Maisuradze.
Deputat is significantly better than Davankova (and he is not the first partner for her).
And so on.

[hanca]

There is a lack of female partners for pair skating in Russia.
Young Antipova (not very good in singles) got famous Maisuradze.
Deputat is significantly better than Davankova (and he is not the first partner for her).
And so on.

I think it is given that in juniors and younger seniors pairs the female skater in the pair will be worse than the male skater, if you are partnering juniors with 4-5 years age difference. In seniors the difference may not be so significant (you may have the same skills at 20 and at 24), but I would expect there to be difference between skills of for example 14 years old Davanova and 19 years old Deputat. If they were single skaters, Davankova would be only in her second year of juniors, whereas Deputat is old enough to be 3 years competing as senior. There is obviously a reason why the partnership have the age gap, but I think it can be putting too much pressure and expectation on the younger partner to be as good as the older partner.

[AlexRus]

I think it is given that in juniors and younger seniors pairs the female skater in the pair will be worse than the male skater, if you are partnering juniors with 4-5 years age difference.

It is not so simple.
Very young Vygalova is at about same level as Zakroev.

While female skaters are much more numerous than male (girls love this sports more than boys) - the lack is of female, not male, in pairs.
And I know how reluctantly in Russia girls (who have any success at singles) go to pairs, and how pairs' coaches want them.

[hanca]

It is not so simple.
Very young Vygalova is at about same level as Zakroev.

While female skaters are much more numerous than male (girls love this sports more than boys) - the lack is of female, not male, in pairs.
And I know how reluctantly in Russia girls (who have any success at singles) go to pairs, and how pairs' coaches want them.

I know that there are some exceptions, (e.g. the one you said- Vygalova-Zakroev), but it still doesn't change on the fact that the female skater needs to be relatively (compared to her age) much more skilled than her male partner. Vygaova is I think 13. I wonder how good was Zakroev at that age, if he is now 'only ' as good as she is.

And to add, very young Vygalova may be the same level as Zakroev now, but as soon as she grows a tiny bit or gets into puberty, she will have the same troubles as any other girl. Same like it was this year with Davankova (problems at their first JGP because she grew), same as Martiusheva suddenly got in summer 2009... Just seven months after Martiusheva-Rogonov placed second at junior worlds, she was suddenly a completely different skater (struggling with jumps etc). If you compare how Davanova looked at junior worlds with how she looks now, that will explain why their first JGP was not quite the same as their last years skating. I do hope that both Martiusheva and Davankova manage their growth and puberty, but it still feels so unfair that everyone expects them to be on the same level as someone who is four or five years older. In singles you wouldn't generally expect a junior to keep up with a senior.

[sky_fly20]

And to add, very young Vygalova may be the same level as Zakroev now, but as soon as she grows a tiny bit or gets into puberty, she will have the same troubles as any other girl. Same like it was this year with Davankova (problems at their first JGP because she grew), same as Martiusheva suddenly got in summer 2009... Just seven months after Martiusheva-Rogonov placed second at junior worlds, she was suddenly a completely different skater (struggling with jumps etc). If you compare how Davanova looked at junior worlds with how she looks now, that will explain why their first JGP was not quite the same as their last years skating. I do hope that both Martiusheva and Davankova manage their growth and puberty, but it still feels so unfair that everyone expects them to be on the same level as someone who is four or five years older. In singles you wouldn't generally expect a junior to keep up with a senior.

I think Martiusheva wont grow that much anymore, she is on transition now of adjusting, she filled out and is 17 years old
obviously Davankova and Vygalova still have to face some growing up

[Skater Boy]

It will be interesting to see what RUssia can do or produce. THe baby ballerinas are growing up but not showing quite the promise of Asada or Kim.

[seniorita]

^hah? Liza, Adelina and Julia, the most hyped ones, ruled the juniors on their debut and the first two are just entering full senior season, how do you know they don't show promise like Yuna and Mao? they haven't even started yet.. Besides Yuna and Mao didn't have big puberty issues as far as I rememember. In any case we should let them have their own path, it is useless to compare them always with Yuna/ Mao..

*ipod auto corrects Yuna to tuna all the time

[gmyers]

The big debut of both Mao and Yuna in 2007 didn't go as planned as MIki ANdo won. So They have to medal at worlds really to be equal but there was a changing of the guard and the podium was wide open but not so open that either of them could win and it was not until 2008 that Mao and don't forget Yuna really had bad mistakes her first two worlds and people were like "what is wrong with Yuna is she a massive choker she can't win worlds when the judges really want her to badly" then she won the vitally important 2009 worlds and 2010 Olympics and that was after the big mistakes of 2007 and 2008 worlds and in 2008 Kostner almost won anyway because Mao had a big mistake.

[hanca]

It will be interesting to see what RUssia can do or produce. THe baby ballerinas are growing up but not showing quite the promise of Asada or Kim.

Not showing quite the promise of Asada or Kim? Jesus, what more they have to do to show their promise?

Liza won both senior GP events and then was fourth at GP final last year. She was also 1st at Youth Olympics. I think it is pretty decent result.

Adelina was third in both her GP events, and then she was the first alternate to GPF. (Unfortunately Mao withdrew late and therefore Adelina couldn't be sent.) She was also 2nd at youth Olympics and 3rd at Junior Worlds. She won Russian senior nationals.

Julia won everything on the Junior level last year. She won both JGP events, JGP final and Junior Worlds. She was not old enough to do any international senior competition yet, but she was 2nd at Russian senior nationals and won Russian junior nationals.

Is that not good enough for you?

[FSGMT]

Not showing quite the promise of Asada or Kim? Jesus, what more they have to do to show their promise?

Liza won both senior GP events and then was fourth at GP final last year. She was also 1st at Youth Olympics. I think it is pretty decent result.

Adelina was third in both her GP events, and then she was the first alternate to GPF. (Unfortunately Mao withdrew late and therefore Adelina couldn't be sent.) She was also 2nd at youth Olympics and 3rd at Junior Worlds. She won Russian senior nationals.

Julia won everything on the Junior level last year. She won both JGP events, JGP final and Junior Worlds. She was not old enough to do any international senior competition yet, but she was 2nd at Russian senior nationals and won Russian junior nationals.

Is that not good enough for you?

They're all wonderful at the moment, but Liza and Adelina are growing a lot, and Julia is still so immature (physically), we'll have to wait after puberty... I feel like in 2007 and 2008, when Zhang, Nagasu and Flatt were so promising and now Flatt and Nagasu were not even selected for 4CC or Worlds and Zhang is coming back after three disastrous seasons... I really hope at least one of the Russian girls can become the next Slutskaya (the one I personally prefer is Adelina), but we have to wait at least three-four years to decide...

[plushyfan]

They're all wonderful at the moment, but Liza and Adelina are growing a lot, and Julia is still so immature (physically), we'll have to wait after puberty... I feel like in 2007 and 2008, when Zhang, Nagasu and Flatt were so promising and now Flatt and Nagasu were not even selected for 4CC or Worlds and Zhang is coming back after three disastrous seasons... I really hope at least one of the Russian girls can become the next Slutskaya (the one I personally prefer is Adelina), but we have to wait at least three-four years to decide...

Of course, everybody knows that. But Skaterboy said "Not showing quite the promise". This is so ridiculous again from him, why he denies what is obvious? What they supposed to do yet? They are big talents, and their debuts were awesome. And who is he, he is a fortune teller, who knows they won't be so great like Mao and Yuna?