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Thread: Rocker vs Counter?

  1. #1
    Huge Scott Moir Fan Macassar88's Avatar
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    Rocker vs Counter?

    Hey guys, I've been trying to learn the names of all the moves in the field in skating and I've been having trouble differentiating Rockers and Counters. I have read the definitions in the ISU handbook, but I was wondering if anyone could help me maybe with videos. Thanks a bunch!

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    The counters are the second and third moves on the current US novice Moves in the Field test; the rockers are the first and second moves on the current junior test.

    If you search youtube for those moves/tests, you'll probably find several examples of each, of varying quality of both skating and video.

    The tests changed in September 2010. Those moves didn't change in ways that matter, but their placement in the sequence of moves did; you'd have to fast forward past more other moves to find them if you find a video that posted the whole test.

    I'll give the first examples of each that I found with a quick search.

    Counters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHHGnv-Cfl4&t=0m54s

    Rockers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3PRpb3HiDw&t=0m33s

    You'll notice that on the first turns of the respective moves (forward outside), the counters point into the new circle, whereas the rockers point into the old circle, if that helps. Look for the difference in upper body twist.

    It's hard to find videos of full school figures -- TV coverage of competitions that held them would at most give highlights, often only showing a small part of each figure.

    Here's a video of a counter figure in full: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVOKNPNeqZI&t=0m32s


    You'll probably want to get familiar with how the forward turns work before worrying about the backward ones.

    (I'm not at that skill level myself and never will be, but I can attempt or in some cases at least fake all the forward turns in isolation.)

  3. #3
    Huge Scott Moir Fan Macassar88's Avatar
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    Thanks a bunch
    And yeah I'm trying to learn all the moves so I can start figuring out why certain footwork sequences get certain levels. Not to be an actual judge or anything but just so I can scream wuzrobbed with more authority!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macassar88 View Post
    Thanks a bunch
    And yeah I'm trying to learn all the moves so I can start figuring out why certain footwork sequences get certain levels. Not to be an actual judge or anything but just so I can scream wuzrobbed with more authority!
    For that purpose, you might want to look at the turns done badly to see why they might not get credit. Skaters more often lose levels because they don't have clear entrance and exit edges on these turns than because they didn't plan the right combination (although this time of year when the rules change they might not have rechoreographed accordingly yet).

    I haven't looked closely at the latest tech panel guidelines for step sequences. It would be best if you could find a technical specialist or controller to explain what they're looking for.

  5. #5
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    From the drawing, see how the two lobes of the compulsory figure are connected by a rocker
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocker_turn

    Now watch Scott Hamilton do a 3 lobe rocker compulsory figure:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU9Hy...ailpage#t=466s

    Here's a drawing of how a counter works:
    Counter
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter_turn

    Kira Ivanova, Jill Trenary, Katarina Witt and Debi Thomas skating figures with left forward inside counters. See how the counter lets you change to the next circle.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31-yn9XYq0k

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    A counter is based off a bracket. (Ex. you go from outside to outside)

    A rocker is based off a three-turn. (Ex. you go from outside to inside)

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    Quote Originally Posted by leafygreens View Post
    A counter is based off a bracket. (Ex. you go from outside to outside)

    A rocker is based off a three-turn. (Ex. you go from outside to inside)
    No, that's not true.

    Brackets and three turns both change outside and inside at the same time they change between forward and backward, and they keep the same direction of rotation (clockwise or counterclockwise).

    Rockers and counters both stay on the same side of the blade (outside or inside) but change between forward and backward and also change between clockwise and counterclockwise curves.

    Brackets and counters both start by rotating against the entry curve, and three turns and rockers both start by rotating into the entry curve.

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    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Counter: In like a bracket, out like a 3-turn.

    Rocker: In like a 3-turn, out like bracket.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    No, that's not true.

    Brackets and three turns both change outside and inside at the same time they change between forward and backward, and they keep the same direction of rotation (clockwise or counterclockwise).

    Rockers and counters both stay on the same side of the blade (outside or inside) but change between forward and backward and also change between clockwise and counterclockwise curves.

    Brackets and counters both start by rotating against the entry curve, and three turns and rockers both start by rotating into the entry curve.
    I was not thinking and wrote the wrong example edge. However, a counter is still based off a bracket and rocker is based off a 3-turn.

  11. #11
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Counters "point" the direction you are skating and rockers "point" the direction you came from.

    Until I was told that I used to get confused as well.. too many edges to think about, but just worrying about the point of the turn makes it easier to do the correct turn without thinking much from any edge.

    Personally I think rockers are easier than counters and I find it silly that they appear later in the MITF structure.

  12. #12
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    They appear later because in the figures structure, they are later.

  13. #13
    Rinkside
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    I think I've said this in another thread, so I'll say it again:

    Both of them go from outside to outside or inside to inside.

    ROCKERS:
    Rockers turn into the edge your skating on. So, for example, they start like a 3 turn. If you were skating on a forward left outside edge you'd turn anticlockwise and end on a left outside edge. Rockers always end on the same edge they start on.

    COUNTERS:
    Counters start like a bracket turn. They turn away from the edge your skating on. So, back to the left outside edge example, if you were skating on a forward left outside edge, you'd turn clockwise, and finish still on a left outside edge. Like rockers, counters always end on the same edge they started on.

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