Protesting Scores: Something that Figure Skating needs?

Blades of Passion · Aug 1, 2012

Watching the Summer Olympics, I was quite amazed at how Team Japan was able to move up from 4th place to 2nd place in gymnastics by protesting a wrongful score given to one of the routines. I also saw a story about a Fencer who waited for a full 45 minutes in protest, as a call made against her was reviewed.

Regardless of the various controversies about these protests at the 2012 Summer Olympics (many say that Japan's protest only succeeded because the routine in question was the reigning World Champion's), I feel like this is what Figure Skating needs. The scoring system has become so specific with the technical calls being made and technical panels frequently make mistakes. There needs to be a way to not let bad tech calls stand. Coaches get the protocol sheet as soon as their skater has been scored and they should have the right to protest any calls they feel were wrong and call for a review. The judging panel should then vote on whether or not they feel the tech call in question was correct or not (after being given all of the footage and reviewing it, of course).

What do you think?

seniorita · Aug 1, 2012

Uchimura is a rockstar in gymnastics, nevertheless he appealed for a technicality on his dismount and gained 0.7 points more which was right. What would coaches appeal in fs? I cant imagine they can apeal in pcs or Goe, and how many times a technical element is not identified right in fs? Maybe they could appeal for lip and flutz and at the levels of spins for example.

Serious Business · Aug 1, 2012

seniorita, the tech panel makes a lot of result-changing calls than that. Just think of the level calls in ice dancing patterns. Or under-rotation/downgrade calls on jumps!

Interestingly enough, protesting a score in gymnastics requires a financial deposit, to discourage abuse of the system. The first inquiry requires a 300 dollar deposit, if it's successful, the money is returned, if not, it goes to an FIG foundation. And after the first unsuccessful inquiry, the second one costs 500 dollars, and then if that's also unsuccessful but the coach insists on making a third inquiry, it'll cost 1000 dollars. This has the hilarious effect of making it look like the judges are being bribed, when in fact, the FIG only gets to keep the money if they do not overturn their earlier decision. I'm guessing all the coaches have to have large sums of American money as the ready at major competitions? This would seem to hurt the poorer delegations. And I can easily see Speedy adopting this scheme as an additional revenue source for the ISU.

ILoveFigures · Aug 1, 2012

In gymnastics you can only protest the score for difficulty, NOT execution. IMO, I think figure skating should have a similar system. I also agree with the FIG regarding the money you have to pay if you indeed choose to protest. If the inquiry is accepted you get your money back, if denied you don't. :think:

gkelly · Aug 1, 2012

ILoveFigures said:
In gymnastics you can only protest the score for difficulty, NOT execution.

So the equivalent in IJS figure skating would be allowing protests of tech panel calls but not judges' scores, as mentioned earlier in this thread.

dorispulaski · Aug 1, 2012

Yes, and I would agree with that. Having spent quite a lot of time trying to figure out tech calls in ice dance, there have certainly been some I found questionable--however, often the questionableness was when an element was called too high rather than too low (in which case, the other skaters' coaches or federations should be able to appeal the call). That would be trickier, however, to implement.

janetfan · Aug 1, 2012

gkelly said:
So the equivalent in IJS figure skating would be allowing protests of tech panel calls but not judges' scores, as mentioned earlier in this thread.

A fair question but seems to be dodging BOP's point.

Until the tech panel can be challenged skating will be no better or fair under CoP than it ever was under 6.0.

Some fans think tech panels (and by extension the CoP is infallible). Others see it much differently.

N. American fans (yes, that includes Canadians) will continue fleeing this sport in droves until a sense of fairness is realized.

Tammi · Aug 1, 2012

There is a process in place to question/protest/correct a call in figure skating.

Tonichelle · Aug 1, 2012

Well as my family is one of those "once every four years" (if that) gymnastics watchers, I can say that the majority were none too pleased with the whole idea of Japan getting it overturned :laugh:

I'm not sure it would help or hurt the sport... especially in the eyes of the average viewer.

janetfan · Aug 1, 2012

Tammi said:
There is a process in place to question/protest/correct a call in figure skating.

I remember Orser went nuts at the '09 GPF when Yuna's 3x3 in the SP was given a dg.

Can you tell me what Orser's options were by way of protesting the call (which I have never heard anyone defend as correct)?

Tammi · Aug 1, 2012

janetfan said:
Can you tell me what Orser's options were by way of protesting the call (which I have never heard anyone defend as correct)?

I don't know the specifics for the ISU, but within the USFS, a coach needs to notify the referee during the event or immedately following. Some things can't be disputed however, I'll have to check on what can and can't be questioned.

janetfan · Aug 1, 2012

Tammi said:
I don't know the specifics for the ISU, but within the USFS, a coach needs to notify the referee during the event or immedately following.

Frank Carroll went BALLISTIC at 2010 Natls, literally screaming about the way Mirai was treated by the tech panel (as well as the way Rachael was judged and scored.......everyone knows her 200 score was :eek:

).

It seems to me if Frank really had an option he would have used it since the next event was the 2010 Olympics and in a sport as political as skating it is big to have your skater going in as the natl champion.

Frank made it clear beyond any doubt that he vehemently disagreed with the scoring at 2010 Natls.

Are you sure he had any option but to shout at the tech panel?

If such an option existed I find it hard to believe he would not have used it.

I could be wrong though..........

thumbyskates · Aug 1, 2012

Tammi said:
There is a process in place to question/protest/correct a call in figure skating.

You can go to the referee within 1 hour of the posted results - the only thing that can be disputed is an error from the Data Input Operator.
ie:
Technical specialist calls 2A <
Data input operator puts in 2A <<
Coach gets report card and thinks this is an error - goes to referee - referee addresses panel and must check original caller's notes. If the caller's notes state 2A < than it is an input error and could be changed.
If coach is disputing the < call all together and it correctly was entered in as a <, it cannot be disputed.

Dragonlady · Aug 1, 2012

Blades of Passion said:
Regardless of the various controversies about these protests at the 2012 Summer Olympics (many say that Japan's protest only succeeded because the routine in question was the reigning World Champion's), I feel like this is what Figure Skating needs. The scoring system has become so specific with the technical calls being made and technical panels frequently make mistakes. There needs to be a way to not let bad tech calls stand. Coaches get the protocol sheet as soon as their skater has been scored and they should have the right to protest any calls they feel were wrong and call for a review. The judging panel should then vote on whether or not they feel the tech call in question was correct or not (after being given all of the footage and reviewing it, of course).

I have always thought that skaters should have the right of appeal on technical calls, but the NJS specifically says that there can be no appeal on calls. The ISU has barred skaters and their federations from disagreeing with anything related to the scoring. Canada protesting the judging at SLC might have something to do with it.

blue dog · Aug 1, 2012

Dragonlady said:
I have always thought that skaters should have the right of appeal on technical calls, but the NJS specifically says that there can be no appeal on calls. The ISU has barred skaters and their federations from disagreeing with anything related to the scoring. Canada protesting the judging at SLC might have something to do with it.

Remember, it wasn't just Canada, but Russia also protested the scores during SLC. Slutskaya was gonna protest the scores of the short program, which was subsequently denied.

Tammi · Aug 1, 2012

Found this link that might help, http://gofigureskating.com/compete/techpanel.html. It offers a good explanation of the tech panel and what can be questioned. Appears that there are certain "field of play" calls that aren't included. That being said, I wonder if a formal protest be filed against an official after the event, if it as clear that a poor call was made?

It seems like gymnastics is judged in a similar manner to skating. I didn't see the men's gymnastics event, so I don't know who initiated the investigation into the scoring for that individual. Was it a protest by the team or did an official question the interpretation of the rules? Wish I had seen it.

Tonichelle · Aug 1, 2012

immediately after the Japanese team saw that they were 4th the coach filled out the paperwork, grabbed the cash and ran over to the referee. The judges/officials then immediately looked over the replay of the Japanese gymnast's pommel (sp) horse (which he fell out of the dismount). The argument was that he had gotten into teh required position (handstand) before "dismounting" (he fell!) and ending the routine. Originally they called it as him missing the handstand. They reversed it after reviewing the footage for several minutes. It happened in a very short span of time during the end of competition.

Tammi · Aug 1, 2012

Thanks Tonichelle. Do you know if gymnastics uses video replay during the event or do they make those deduction calls via real time only?

FlattFan · Aug 1, 2012

Tammi said:
Thanks Tonichelle. Do you know if gymnastics uses video replay during the event or do they make those deduction calls via real time only?

They used replay.

FlattFan · Aug 1, 2012

If the rule allowed it, I would make a call for Flatt's dubious downgrades at the Olympics. The slo-mo showed she was fine. They would have to give it to her.

About Mirai at 2010 Nationals, all slow-mo would show her underrotation, so that money would go into USFS's piggy bank.

Protesting Scores: Something that Figure Skating needs?

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

seniorita

Serious Business

ILoveFigures

gkelly

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl

janetfan

Match Penalty

Tammi

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

janetfan

Match Penalty

Tammi

janetfan

Match Penalty

thumbyskates

Dragonlady

blue dog

Trixie Schuba's biggest fan!

Tammi

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

Tammi

FlattFan

Match Penalty

FlattFan

Match Penalty

Similar threads

Connect with us