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Thread: Alex Schwazer, Carolina Kostner's boyfriend, disqualified

  1. #31
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowflake View Post
    I don't feel sorry for anyone cheating. Wish there was a life long penalty for doping. It's so selfish. I feel sorry for the athletes that are clean.

    This is how the Irish walker Hefferman sees it.
    You'd think doping was worse than most criminal behaviors, to see the way people react to positive tests and confessions. Yes, I do feel sorry for Schwazer, because he wrecked his career (he's already said he won't compete again) and his reputation and he'll have to live with that for the rest of his life. Do you think knowing that he did that to himself makes it somehow better for him? Though he sounds like he probably had some serious issues with his career and dealing with pressure, so maybe it's for the best that he won't return.

    I've seen Hefferman's statement, and I can't say I'm impressed. Rejoicing in the downfall of a competitor, even if it is self-inflicted and due to something like this, is so not classy. Of course it's not the same as doping, but you know what, I don't consider it good sportsmanship, either. I'd rather see someone say, I'm competing clean and anyone who can't do that shouldn't be competing, or see an expression of disappointment or anger about it. But gloating, no, I can't get behind that. So there are now any number of clean athletes I'd rather see on the podium.

  2. #32
    Custom Title snowflake's Avatar
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    I don't mean they should go to jail or anything, just not being allowed to compete anymore once they were caught. As example I don't like that OG bronze medalist Justin Gatlin is back after testing positive for testosterone in 2006.

    I don't know about Heffner, he could be cheating too, who knows. But if he is clean he has the right to be angry and gloat IMO.

    I just can't find any excuses for athletes that are using dope. If they are not happy with what they are doing, do something else. Sportsmen and -women are privileged in this world.

    Schwazer didn't just wreck his own reputation. He also messed with his girlfriend's reputation. I hope Carolina loves him enough to forgive him and that they can get on with their lives in a better way.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowflake View Post
    Schwazer didn't just wreck his own reputation. He also messed with his girlfriend's reputation. I hope Carolina loves him enough to forgive him and that they can get on with their lives in a better way.
    The way he describes what happened, it sounds like he had some underlying psychological issues and was practically trying to self-destruct. If the story he's telling is true, he must have known there was a very high chance of getting caught. Sometimes people do stupid, reckless things instead of coping in a healthy/rational way.

    From the media coverage, it seems like Carolina is disappointed and hurt, but also supportive and concerned with his well-being. If that's true, then he's a lucky guy.

  4. #34
    Trixie Schuba's biggest fan! blue dog's Avatar
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    My heart breaks for both of them, but more so for Carolina. Remember, for many years, most of us thought of Carolina as fragile. This past year, she emerged as a strong competitor. Alex getting caught isn't helping matters. I hope Carolina is strong enough for her sake, because it sounds like she will have to be strong enough for two people.

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    Agreed. What a miserable turn of events.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blue dog View Post
    1. Racewalking IS very much a sport. It is 30 miles of walking in 3 hours. Very few people can run ten miles in an hour, let alone WALK it.
    What? Are ... are you serious? A 6 or 7 minute mile is an average pace for a male. You could go to any high school, pick out a varsity cross country runner, and they'd match that pace. Certainly not for 50 km, but you shouldn't act like 10 mph is an amazing-tier speed.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by brightphoton View Post
    A 6 or 7 minute mile is an average pace for a male. You could go to any high school, pick out a varsity cross country runner, and they'd match that pace. Certainly not for 50 km, but you shouldn't act like 10 mph is an amazing-tier speed.
    Are you serious? Blue dog said very few people. For one, varsity cross country runners are not most people, as they train regularly and are young and fit. The average person who does not train for running usually isn't nearly as fit, and even people who do train regularly and are in good shape may not be good at distance running, or naturally talented when it comes to running/walking. So yes, looking at the population in general, and even at the population of athletes, most people can't do 9 miles an hour, and a lot probably can't do nine miles of running in any time frame. In addition, your example is irrelevant, because cross-country events generally don't include distances anywhere near 50k unless it's ultra stuff; the longest distance at Cross Country Worlds is, what, 12K? So what's the distance someone would do in high school, 8k? Six? It's not comparable. Race walkers don't stop at 6 or 8 or 12k, and the pace Schwazer kept in Beijing was very fast. His time was an OR; if he did that clean, that's impressive. Remember that race walkers are not allowed to have both feet off the ground at any time.

    The one correction I would like to make to Blue dog's post is that it's not 50k in three hours - the world record is 3:34. But that is still very fast. Sure, it's not as fast as a winning marathon pace. But think of it like swimming: you have different styles of crossing the same distance, and just because breaststroke takes longer than freestyle doesn't make it easy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brightphoton View Post
    What? Are ... are you serious? A 6 or 7 minute mile is an average pace for a male. You could go to any high school, pick out a varsity cross country runner, and they'd match that pace. Certainly not for 50 km, but you shouldn't act like 10 mph is an amazing-tier speed.
    maybe you think it is easy to run at that pace, but running is prohibited in racewalking. racewalkers can get disqualified from a race if the amount of contact between their feet and the track is deemed too little to be considered a walk. it takes a lot of finesse to train a perfect fast walking stride, and a lot of concentration to maintain that focus for over 3 hours.

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    Wikipedia:

    In the absence of significant external factors, humans tend to walk at about 1.4 m/s (5.0 km/h; 3.1 mph). Although humans are capable of walking at speeds from nearly 0 m/s to upwards of 2.5 m/s (9.0 km/h; 5.6 mph), humans typically choose to use only a small range within these speeds.
    10,000M, OR = 27:01.17 -> 22.206Km/h

    Marathon - 42.195 Km, OR = 2:06:32 -> 20Km/h

    Walking - 50Km (31.07 miles), OR = 3:37:09 -> 13.815 Km/h

    The walking event is much faster paced than most people can run/jog, especially over the distance of 50Km. The difference between walking and running is that a walker must maintain at least one foot on the ground at all times. Violation of this rule is the most common reason for disqualification.

    Quote Originally Posted by brightphoton View Post
    What? Are ... are you serious? A 6 or 7 minute mile is an average pace for a male. You could go to any high school, pick out a varsity cross country runner, and they'd match that pace. Certainly not for 50 km, but you shouldn't act like 10 mph is an amazing-tier speed.
    A 6.5 minute mile is almost 15 Km/h which would really put the OR to shame. Average pace for a male? The male of a different species or a different human race from another planet perhaps?

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    Wikipedia:



    10,000M, OR = 27:01.17 -> 22.206Km/h

    Marathon - 42.195 Km, OR = 2:06:32 -> 20Km/h

    Walking - 50Km (31.07 miles), OR = 3:37:09 -> 13.815 Km/h

    The walking event is much faster paced than most people can run/jog, especially over the distance of 50Km. The difference between walking and running is that a walker must maintain at least one foot on the ground at all times. Violation of this rule is the most common reason for disqualification.



    A 6.5 minute mile is almost 15 Km/h which would really put the OR to shame. Average pace for a male? The male of a different species or a different human race from another planet perhaps?
    These results are incredible, and they show the human performance limitations.(I don't know whether this is the right English term.)

    Marathon - 42,195 miles, OR = 2:06:32 -> 20Km / h - on average 42x 1km / 3 minutes
    10.000 M, OR = 27:01.17 -> 22.206Km/h- on average 10X1km / 2.7 minutes
    Walking - 50km (31.7 miles), OR = 3:37:09 -> 13 815 km / h on average 50X 1km / 4.34 minutes

    Am I right? Incredible!!

  11. #41
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    Yes, and if you watch race walkers, it's a very unnatural posture and movement, almost a wiggle, and I imagine it must be pretty hard to maintain. It's not like strolling along, even rapidly, on a city street.

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    Not really. I mainly run 5k and 10k, so I'm not a ultra-marathoner, but a 6:30 mile for a male who competitively runs is regarded as average. Maybe not average for the Joe Schmoe who doesn't exercise, but then again, that Joe might have trouble knowing which gyms are in his city. Why would you compare a world record speed to someone who doesn't exercise? If you did that, a 10:00 mile would be impressive. If you were fair, you would compare to runners and the physically fit.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by brightphoton View Post
    Not really. I mainly run 5k and 10k, so I'm not a ultra-marathoner, but a 6:30 mile for a male who competitively runs is regarded as average. Maybe not average for the Joe Schmoe who doesn't exercise, but then again, that Joe might have trouble knowing which gyms are in his city. Why would you compare a world record speed to someone who doesn't exercise? If you did that, a 10:00 mile would be impressive. If you were fair, you would compare to runners and the physically fit.
    But that wasn't the comparison. Blue Dog said, very few people, not very few runners, or very few competitive athletes, or very few Olympic-level competitors. And it's true: very few people can run a 6:30 mile (why are we discussing this in miles anyway? Schwazer does 50k, the relevant measure is his time per K or K per hour). And you know what, even among runners and physically fit people, that pace would be a good one for many distance runners - and they, unlike race walkers, are allowed to have both feet off the ground. You can't compare 10Ks and 50Ks.

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    A 6:30 mile is par for most fitness exams for the military, police, and firefighting. Granted, it's not an easy exam and people have to train up their cardio, but marines and police and firefighters are not that rare, so at least at one time they could run that pace for 2 miles. The runners I know do distances between sprints and marathons. I don't personally know any ultra-marathoners, so I can only comment on the shorter distances. And are runners rare? It's one of the easiest sports to get into, and the treadmills gyms are always crammed full of people.

    Like I said, I don't consider the entire population. People who are sedentary have no standards of fitness. Moving around the house doing chores is probably their daily exercise. Why would you even put that kind of person in your equation? It's like asking comparing a kindergarteners' play to a Broadway musical. So I only think of people who do regular, vigorous exercise.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by brightphoton View Post
    A 6:30 mile is par for most fitness exams for the military, police, and firefighting. Granted, it's not an easy exam and people have to train up their cardio, but marines and police and firefighters are not that rare, so at least at one time they could run that pace for 2 miles. The runners I know do distances between sprints and marathons. I don't personally know any ultra-marathoners, so I can only comment on the shorter distances. And are runners rare? It's one of the easiest sports to get into, and the treadmills gyms are always crammed full of people.

    Like I said, I don't consider the entire population. People who are sedentary have no standards of fitness. Moving around the house doing chores is probably their daily exercise. Why would you even put that kind of person in your equation? It's like asking comparing a kindergarteners' play to a Broadway musical. So I only think of people who do regular, vigorous exercise.
    But nobody was talking about running 2-3 km. The point was about longer distances, so the example is not relevant. Few people can do 10 miles in an hour (it's actually more like 9, I think, but never mind that). Most people who do not train regularly for longer distance running cannot run 9 miles/14k in an hour*, or ten miles at all. And as for the comparison to cross country runners and fitness tests, you can't go all out for 5 or 10 km when there are another 40-45 to go. This leaves aside the fact that race walking requires a different technique from running and regular walking.

    I suspect runners are only a smallish subset of the "people who exercise" category - there are a lot of other options, and not everyone enjoys running, not to mention it's hard on some people's joints. I exercise regularly and I never run - I do core work and cardio, and I go walking in good weather - but not running. I certainly could not run 10 miles, or even ten kilometers. I think I know maybe a couple of people who run; most everyone else does other types of exercise - swimming, cycling, Pilates, spinning, walking, Zumba, dance classes, weight training, tennis; it's not like there's any lack of options.

    * Skaters do the occasional charity race. I think we can all agree that skaters are very fit, but that they are also not runners. I bet they do not run 1k in 4.5 minutes if they have to do a longer distance. It's just not sustainable if you're not used to even middle distance running.

    More on topic - the IOC will probably conduct an inquiry and re-test his Beijing samples. I think he's said he wants them to do that. It'll be interesting to find out the results.
    Last edited by Buttercup; 08-10-2012 at 12:06 AM.

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