Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 29

Thread: Doping

  1. #1
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,589

    Doping

    Did this have athread? I know there was some discussion, though I do not know who if anyone was found out this Olympiad. I read more about Lance and it seems curent opinion is he was doping because everyone of his competitors were. When he competed, it was easier to get by the testers for EPO among other things. It is very sad if his 7 medals are stripped. Lance was a huge star who transcended sport as he survived cancer that had spread and he gave a lot of people hope. It seems people close to him and team mates have said everyone did this, and this is how he gained an edge, 5% on his closest rivals.

    i hope they are wrong. like many people, I felt very sad when Marion jones, who was a huge hero in the black community among others lost her 5 medals.

    i don't know if this was discussed elsewhere. I know that it seems to be not much of an issue in FS. Or am I just not informed?
    Last edited by skateluvr; 08-12-2012 at 07:24 PM.

  2. #2
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Staring at the ocean and smiling.
    Posts
    15,476
    The one person I've heard of who got caught this Olympics would be Carolina Kostner's boyfriend, the Olympic walker Alex Schwazer. There's a thread about it.

  3. #3
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    6,889
    If Bolt is actually clean would he be training with Marion Jone's ex-trainer, the same one who was the key witness in the Balco trial.


    http://www.thebiglead.com/index.php/...ns-of-ped-use/


    "Truthfully, the question should not be whether Usain Bolt or other sprinters are clean, but how do we redefine clean in an era where we are just scratching the surface of what can be achieved with nano-technology and genetics?"



    Sadly the drug testing remains incapable of keeping up with the cheating and the acceptable levels are too high.
    Last edited by janetfan; 08-12-2012 at 07:10 AM.

  4. #4
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    9,495
    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    If Bolt is actually clean would he be training with Marion Jone's ex-trainer, the same one who was the key witness in the Balco trial.


    http://www.thebiglead.com/index.php/...ns-of-ped-use/




    "Truthfully, the question should not be whether Usain Bolt or other sprinters are clean, but how do we redefine clean in an era where we are just scratching the surface of what can be achieved with nano-technology and genetics?"



    Sadly the drug testing remains incapable of keeping up with the cheating and the acceptable levels are too high.

    This is one reason I disagree when people say that the judged sports don't belong in the Olympics. I'm sure that anyone can figure out a way to use artificial means in any sport. But in gymnastics, skating, and diving, it takes other skills besides speed and strength to win.

  5. #5
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    6,889
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    This is one reason I disagree when people say that the judged sports don't belong in the Olympics. I'm sure that anyone can figure out a way to use artificial means in any sport. But in gymnastics, skating, and diving, it takes other skills besides speed and strength to win.
    Just so I don't appear to be picking on the "Paper champion....ooops, make that "Chemical champion" Bolt, his notorius trainer says that 8 out 10 sprinters are using.

    But what about swimmers? Is Phelps a cheater too?

    Many here never wanted to believe Lance was cheating. Afterall, he is a cancer survivor ........

    The other night I was sickened seeing a close up of Rogge in the stands, who had said "$o far the London game$ are a great succe$$.

    I think the IOC should hang their collective heads in shame. They know exactly what is going on but as long as the Olympic$ make money not a thing will be done.

    eta: Olympia, for sure there are drugs that could help gymnasts and skaters. Just increasing an athletes stamina and recovery time is enough to help them train harder and perform better. Many are already using the legal versions but how do we know if they are not crossing the line.?
    Last edited by janetfan; 08-12-2012 at 08:38 AM.

  6. #6
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    9,495
    I understand that it's possible for there to be drugs that help gymnasts and skaters. But because these athletes' excellence doesn't depend solely on "faster, higher, stronger," there may (I hope and pray) be less incentive for their use. After all, increased size and muscle mass isn't in and of itself an advantage to skaters. In fact it's a disadvantage, even with male partners in pairs. If you look like a stiff linebacker hefting your partner, you could lose points.

    In terms of the substances that speed up healing, one that I know of, steroids, actually endangers the area of injury in the long term, so it would be counter-productive. I hope that the athletes reason that way, too.

  7. #7
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    6,889
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    I understand that it's possible for there to be drugs that help gymnasts and skaters. But because these athletes' excellence doesn't depend solely on "faster, higher, stronger," there may (I hope and pray) be less incentive for their use. After all, increased size and muscle mass isn't in and of itself an advantage to skaters. In fact it's a disadvantage, even with male partners in pairs. If you look like a stiff linebacker hefting your partner, you could lose points.

    In terms of the substances that speed up healing, one that I know of, steroids, actually endangers the area of injury in the long term, so it would be counter-productive. I hope that the athletes reason that way, too.
    I want to agree with you....but hear from the master himself, Usain Bolt's personal drug trainer Angel "Hernandez" Heridia" how the effective use of steroids can help prevent injuries.

    (My post #47 under "Track and Field" from the infamous "Der Spiegel" interview

    "Heredia: No, that is a misapprehension: “You take a couple of tablets today and tomorrow you can really fly.” In reality you have to train inconceivably hard, be very talented and have a perfect team of trainers and support staff. And then it is the best drugs that make the difference. It is all a great composition, a symphony. Everything is linked together, do you understand? And drugs have a long-term effect: they ensure that you can recover, that you avoid the catabolic phases. Volleyball on the beach might be healthy, but peak athletics is not healthy. You destroy your body. Marion Jones, for example ...

    "SPIEGEL: ... five-time Olympic medallist at Sydney 2000 ... "

    "Heredia: ... trained with an unparalleled intensity. Drugs protect you from injury. And she triumphed and picked up all the medals."
    Last edited by janetfan; 08-12-2012 at 01:29 PM.

  8. #8
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    9,495
    I can't argue against this, because I don't know enough. It makes me sad to contemplate it, and I know I'm not alone.

  9. #9
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,589
    Indeed, you are not alone. How long as doping gone on? When -what decade did this start? Is track and field the most notorious for doping? Lance launched cycling and cycling at all levels has taken over in rich Silicon Valley-more popular than golf-the streets are clogged with many 1000 dollar toys for the recreational cyclist. It seems now we might as well assume the "freaks" who can do what the top athletes in some sports do ARE doping. I am amazed at what Janetfan has quoted. Did not know Usain Bolt had same trainer as Marion Jones. If athletes implicate their coaches as their suppliers to use the nice word, should they not lose their credentials? Unless the sentences are harsher than returning the hardware...it will go on as there is much more to win. Phelphs has 18 gold, 4 relay-silver I think. Is it possible he did that without drugs across 4 Olympics. You win it all if you get that 5% edge over the best in the world. So they still train like crazy. If everyone is using something and has their own personal chemist, I totally understand someone saying the playing field includes drugs and I want to compete on the same leveled ground.

    Sorry, didn't realize so much was in the walker guy's thread. It is amazing. Even racewalking. It gets to be funny in a ludicrous way. There was an ice pair-Ina/Zimmerman...didn't Kyoko get fined or suspended or something? Years ago there was press about her refusing to do a surprise doping test. I think she just said no and slammed the door of her Greenwich, CT home, then came up with an excuse. Anyone recall this incident?

    Fortunately no on we adore in skating has been found out. I think it would be much tougher to use drugs in skating-FS I mean. I'll bet it is common in speed skating.
    Last edited by skateluvr; 08-12-2012 at 07:46 PM.

  10. #10
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,589
    Closing ceremony - GBR 29 Gold medals, best since 1908! 1996 had 1 gold medal. Yay for GBR and the Queen should fund sports with her monies from estates and gifts of jewelry from 60 years from heads of state. tax the Queen and her family more and there will be something left of the empire. I can only guess all those lucky fans/athletes will be going through withdrawal. I wish I could wander the Village for a week. Nothing inspires like youth. They did a great job. it makes me sure that the war on terror is bogeyman as the Olympics are easily acesses/upset or bombed and it does not happen. Kinda makes you wonder why we are going broke in two countries and destroying this economy.

    It is open across many venues and would be ideal to disrupt for any 'name brand' terror groups. It shows how small and weak they are. Post 9/11 world has been surprising safe if you don't live in an Arab spring country. The Royals are everywhere/unafraid. I really wonder how much security there is in London and outer venus these last weeks?

  11. #11
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,589
    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    I want to agree with you....but hear from the master himself, Usain Bolt's personal drug trainer Angel "Hernandez" Heridia" how the effective use of steroids can help prevent injuries.

    (My post #47 under "Track and Field" from the infamous "Der Spiegel" interview

    "Heredia: No, that is a misapprehension: “You take a couple of tablets today and tomorrow you can really fly.” In reality you have to train inconceivably hard, be very talented and have a perfect team of trainers and support staff. And then it is the best drugs that make the difference. It is all a great composition, a symphony. Everything is linked together, do you understand? And drugs have a long-term effect: they ensure that you can recover, that you avoid the catabolic phases. Volleyball on the beach might be healthy, but peak athletics is not healthy. You destroy your body. Marion Jones, for example ...

    "SPIEGEL: ... five-time Olympic medallist at Sydney 2000 ... "

    "Heredia: ... trained with an unparalleled intensity. Drugs protect you from injury. And she triumphed and picked up all the medals."
    I read the whole article. I thought it incredible, but it is likely he is truthful. Angel was in this game for years and everyone knows. I have non data to say I think Phelps was using various legal and illegal substances. I just don't think a swimmer can dominate like he did through four Olympics. But these athlete have to give blood and urine and it is stored. When they catch up, it will be a sad day. Lance thought he had it made. marion Jones went to Prison. I did not know jail time was done by anyone. I thought just medals stripped and coaches kicked out. Swimming is a 'dirty sport" too acc to Angel Heredia. The formula is be the right body type, work your butt off and take what you can to give you the edge.

  12. #12
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    6,889
    Remember Andreea Raducan .........

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/oly...270014803_afp/


    "He prescribed the medication to this girl. It's a good signal to all the people surrounding the athletes that they can be punished."

    Oh really



    I always thought this was a terrible injustice.

    It is hard to reconcile Andreea being stripped of her well deserved AA Gold medal for taking a cold pill compared to what is going on with so many other athletes who live and die with their planned regimens of performance enhancing drugs.

    I wish IOC would take a long look in the mirror and reverse this decision.
    Apparently a sportsman's sense of decency is more than we can expect from IOC.

    Even if Andreea were to have her medal restored it would never be the same for her.........

    But is it ever too late to do the right thing?

  13. #13
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,178
    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr
    How long as doping gone on?
    This Wikipedia article has some interesting facts abut the history of doping.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_...drugs_in_sport

    The father of anabolic steroids in the United States was John Ziegler (1917–2000), a physician for the U.S. weightlifting team in the mid-twentieth century. Ziegler learned from his Russian days that the Soviet weightlifting team's success was due to their use of performance-enhancing drugs. Deciding that U.S. athletes needed chemical assistance to remain competitive, Ziegler worked with the CIBA Pharmaceutical Company to develop an oral anabolic steroid. This resulted in the creation of methandrostenolone, which appeared on the market in 1960.
    Thomas Hicks, an American born in England on January 7, 1875, won the Olympic marathon in 1904. He crossed the line behind a fellow American, Fred Lorz, whose concept of marathon-running extended to riding half the way in a car thereby disqualifying him. However, Hicks was also aided by outside help. His trainer, Charles Lucas, pulled out a hypodermic and came to his aid as his runner began to struggle.

    “I therefore decided to inject him with a milligram of sulphate of strychnine and to make him drink a large glass brimming with brandy. He set off again as best he could [but] he needed another injection four miles from the end to give him a semblance of speed and to get him to the finish.
    A questionnaire was circulated to the athletes at the 1972 Olympics. 61% said that they had taken anabolic steroids in the previous six months. (32% said that they hadn’t )

    The paragraph on cycling asserts that a race like the tour de France is so grueling that it is not possible to complete the course without the help of drugs.

    I did not know jail time was done by anyone.
    I think the jail sentences are for perjury. You can use drugs but you can''t lie to a grand jury and say you didn't.

  14. #14
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    9,495
    I love that the Romanian who got Raducan's medal on one of the events--was it Amanar?--gave it to Raducan back home in Romania. But yes, it always bothers me that they get people for cold medicine, which is clearly inadvertent on the part of the athlete, and they don't seem to pay attention to the muscle-building drugs. One of the cruelest ones, which I mentioned earlier, was Rick DeMont, a swimmer in 1972, who was stripped of his medal for an allergy medicine. Years later, the national swimming board proved that it was an innocent mistake, and the IOC still refused to hear any of it. Never mind reinstating the gold, they wouldn't even admit DeMont's innocence. Yet four years later they gave the entire East German swimming team a pass on scads of gold medals, and it's known now that most of them were due to terrible chemical interference with the girls, and no measures were taken to adjust the medal records. I guess the IOC cares more about tidiness than anything else.

  15. #15
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,178
    Fortunately no one we adore in skating has been found out
    French champion Thierry Cerez tested positive for anabolic steroids in 1998 and was suspended for two years. French Federation Didier Gailhaguet raised a protest.

    "The first test was only just over the limit and we believe the second
    analysis will clear him," Gailhaguet said.
    (Evidently it didn't.)

    Anton Sikharudlidze and Elena Berezhnaya had to forfeit their gold medal at 2000 Europeans when Berezhnaya tested positive for a banned substance used in cold medicines. One of the burdens these athletes must bear is that they can't take the usual over-the-counter medicine for the relief of cold symtoms and the like.

    The buzz (so to speak) about the Kyoko Ina incident was about recreational drugs, rather than performance-enhancing substances. She had effectively retired from competition anyway, so she didn't really care.
    Last edited by Mathman; 08-13-2012 at 11:36 AM.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •