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- Jun 27, 2003
didn't Ina & Zimmerman or Inoue & Baldwon medal at worlds?
Post tryout: Brubaker will sit out season
- Thread starter sillylionlove
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- Jul 26, 2003
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I&Z won a bronze, post the 2002 Olympics. I&B finished third in the LP in 2006, following Olympics and won one of the "small medals" for it, but were 4th overall.
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- Feb 27, 2012
Hersh stated "non-Oly year Worlds." IIRC, Ina & Zimmerman won bronze at the 2002 Worlds, which was an Olympic year. Since there are usually a lot of retirements after the Olympics, some people, like Hersh, give less weight to a world medal that is won in an Olympic year.
Good for Mark to not let the negativity get to him.
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
If it makes him work harder that's good.
To disagree with Hersh about the state of American Pairs skating strikes me as odd.
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- Jun 27, 2003
i can understand mark being defensive considering he is a current pairs skater for the US and is one of the "problems" for Hersch... it probably struck a nerve.
Mark is probably working harder than ever given that he has a brand new partner. In fact, to say that Mark even needs to work harder is pretty ridiculous considering the amount of sacrifices that he's gone through in his partnership with Amanda (taking multiple jobs to pay the bills, namely).
As for Hersh, I don't think anyone disagrees with him, but I find the way he does it distasteful. You can say that pairs isn't doing well -- but he does it in a way where it's more about HIS ego rather than a constructive criticism of the sport.
ETA: Again, I don't dispute that Pairs is in a sad state and I'm not expecting Hersh to be a cheerleader -- but he really hasn't offered any solutions either. If he really things input is needed and he has knowledge of the sport -- why not do an analysis of what has happened to pairs? Or perhaps write a column about what is missing? It seems he more focused on finding witty ways to insult skaters or resting on wrong assumptions.
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- Aug 27, 2003
Hersh is exceptionally critical, almost mean, in his comments about U.S. pair skating. Certainly there's more than a kernel of truth in his remarks; we all know that. But the way he chooses to say things is often unnecessarily negative. IMO.
Well, as I said, Mark has sacrificed A LOT in his pairs career. He's held multiple jobs just to pay the bills. And with Amanda retiring, he's had to start all over with a new partner. That's a lot harder to do than writing a bunch of words on a blog.
I am not for censoring anyone and certainly people are entitled to his or her opinion but what I find lacking in Hersh's sports coverage -- compared to sports reporters who are even more critical than Hersh -- is that he comes across as a know-it-all with no understanding of the sport or even an idea of what it's like.
The sports reporters I respect the most are the ones who make a point to show the reader what it's like to be in that sport. It doesn't mean the person has to have played that sport, but at least you can tell they follow it to a point that when they are writing something, again, it comes from a place of knowledge, depth and understanding of what one is covering. I don't get that with Hersh.
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- May 15, 2009
Is it Hersh's job to offer solutions? Is he running US Skating?
If skating wants to be viewed as a serious sport then it has to accept criticisms the same way other sports do.
In baseball if the starting pitcher gets bombed there are no excuses. The sportswriters say such and such "had nothing last night and was rocked early and often. He stunk up the joint."
What do you want - sports or a pageant?
If skating wants to be viewed as a serious sport then it has to accept criticisms the same way other sports do.
In baseball if the starting pitcher gets bombed there are no excuses. The sportswriters say such and such "had nothing last night and was rocked early and often. He stunk up the joint."
What do you want - sports or a pageant?
It's his job to offer a full perspective of what he is covering. Watch ESPN or any sports network and you'll have tons of people who are sitting there analyzing the heck out of a sport. When something goes wrong, you have columnists who do say "yes, that stinks" but then they go and say "well, here's what can be done" or at least ask people what can be done.
Hersh lacks that analysis -- as I said, he seems busy just trying to find a witty way to write his insults rather than really covering the sport. Or he's obsessed with some vendetta like his perception that USFS screwed over Alissa Czisny or that there was bloc judging at Ice Dance at Worlds.
There's no reason he can't go to USFS and ask "Why is US Pairs failing" or why not ask the veteran pairs skaters or coaches....at least then we would have something of substance.
As I said in March when people were last complaining about Hersh, I felt that Hersh had a right to his opinion and was glad he was out there covering the sport. But that doesn't mean that he's doing a great job at it.
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- May 15, 2009
You raise interesting points but I am totally confused by your conclusions.
In case you haven't noticed ESPN has basically washed it's hands of skating.
There is practically no interest in CoP skating in USA let alone any serious media analysis.
I am glad for writers like Hersh and Brennan who write about skating. The problem is NOT what Hersh writes - but that not enough others are writing about skating.
I get that there's not a lot of interest in skating analysis these days from ESPN and other networks, but I don't think that means that people should be happy with the coverage a sport IS getting.
I actually like Brennan's coverage, as well as Nancy Armour at the AP (though she doesn't cover skating as much as the other two). As another poster pointed out it seems that Hersh, whether he intended to or not, seems just more mean-spirited at times or more vendetta driven (my thought) in his coverage when it really isn't necessary.
At the end of the Brubaker article (bringing it back to the thread) -- he could have simply said that yes, he still has a chance even if he skips the season because of the lack of depth in pairs. Or that given all the break-ups, he still has a chance. There's a billion ways he could have gotten his point across just as well and provided an opportunity for constructive criticism and analysis. Or maybe he could have spent more time analyzing the field and how Brubaker fits in it (I've seen some great analysis from some posters here!) The way he ended up writing it really just came across as a personal dig at pairs skating.
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- May 15, 2009
I like what you wrote here and have no problem agreeing with most of it.......
Still.....if you think Hersh has any responsibilty or pull with US Skating I think in a way he was too gentle
I think US Skating needs a major kick in the butt - not just in Pairs but in many other areas.
I was saddened watching the empty seats at the Lake Placid JGP. Maybe because I can remember days of such glory and packed arenas there.
It doesn't take much marketing savy toget in touch with some of the local schools or churches and to bus people into see the event.
It's like the promotional effort was non-existent. What a shame for those young skaters to perform in such an empty arena.
Embarrassing really.
Back to Pairs...and Rockne, who I wish well.......Hersh is probably right that with the state of US Pairs right now Rockne can show up next season with a new and inexpereinced partner and have a shot at the podium.
I will not hang Hersh for being honest and IMO accurate about this.
I think a bit more anger or frustration would be far better placed in the direction of US Skating for having such a lack of direction and vision.
The US Pairs program is in shambles and I see that as the problem much more than honest if not caustic reporting.
In fact, it wasn't really a report but just a tweet.
No one can do a full analysis with a tweet but let's just say I am glad Hersh brought some attention to the state of US Pairs skating.
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- Jun 27, 2003
I don't recall a junior event ever packing it in...
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- May 15, 2009
That raises another question....
The money spent flying athletes and coaches/ federation members plus IOC judges and officials in from all over world to skate in empty arenas makes no sense to me.
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I like what you wrote here and have no problem agreeing with most of it.......
Still.....if you think Hersh has any responsibilty or pull with US Skating I think in a way he was too gentle
I think US Skating needs a major kick in the butt - not just in Pairs but in many other areas.
I was saddened watching the empty seats at the Lake Placid JGP. Maybe because I can remember days of such glory and packed arenas there.
It doesn't take much marketing savy toget in touch with some of the local schools or churches and to bus people into see the event.
It's like the promotional effort was non-existent. What a shame for those young skaters to perform in such an empty arena.
Embarrassing really.
Back to Pairs...and Rockne, who I wish well.......Hersh is probably right that with the state of US Pairs right now Rockne can show up next season with a new and inexpereinced partner and have a shot at the podium.
I will not hang Hersh for being honest and IMO accurate about this.
I think a bit more anger or frustration would be far better placed in the direction of US Skating for having such a lack of direction and vision.
The US Pairs program is in shambles and I see that as the problem much more than honest if not caustic reporting.
In fact, it wasn't really a report but just a tweet.
No one can do a full analysis with a tweet but let's just say I am glad Hersh brought some attention to the state of US Pairs skating.
My opinion of Hersh's reporting is not based on one tweet but the body of work I've seen from him over the years.
Alas, we will have to agree to disagree on this topic and I'll let the topic go back to being about Brubaker.
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2009
Why is everyone surprised? Do American pairs ever stay with each other for more than 30 seconds?
