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Thread: Mishin Wants Changes

  1. #1
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Mishin Wants Changes

    Alexei Mishin: “I would make a lot of changes in figure skating”


    http://fskating.com/2012/08/alexei-m...e-skating.html


    His comments on CoP step requirements are of interest.

    I find many skaters perform unattractive step sequences that at times seem to show more lack of control and refinement than anything else.

    But typically the helter-skelter steps rack up the big points.


    About Evan:

    "I don’t care which spins will Lysacek perform, whether he’ll execute a quad or a triple Axel. The fact of his comeback is what interests me.”


    I wish this interview was longer as Mishin's opinions are interesting and based on a lifetime of experience.

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    I like pie. Tonichelle's Avatar
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    I find many skaters perform unattractive step sequences that at times seem to show more lack of control and refinement than anything else.
    Is he talking CoP or Plushy's footwork? (which to me has never seemed refined or in control... swat them wasps!)

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    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    Is he talking CoP or Plushy's footwork? (which to me has never seemed refined or in control... swat them wasps!)
    Maybe he was referring to Evan


    I wonder about the levels.........on steps as well as spins.

    Are fast steps with shallow edges always better than slower steps with deep edges?

    And what about the music?

    Michelle had some wonderful step sequences that used to be based on the MUSIC - and brought the program to a crescendo that led to a climax - rather than wild arm flapping and body bends and turns that basically ignore the music.
    Last edited by janetfan; 08-29-2012 at 01:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    Is he talking CoP or Plushy's footwork? (which to me has never seemed refined or in control... swat them wasps!)
    Maybe..but were interesting, difficult and very fast. If you remember his Michael Jackson medley program or Godfather.

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    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    Maybe..but were interesting, difficult and very fast. If you remember his Michael Jackson medley program or Godfather.
    Wasn't "Godfather" one of the programs ISU used as an example for judges to show poor CoP skating?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21woRiBqrks


    I may like and admire Plushy but did not find "Godfather" an interesting or well constructed program.

    From the clip:

    Scott: "All in all not nearly what I expected."

    Button: He has passion, attack, and ferocity. I could never take my eyes off him. He always keeps me riveted.

    Scott: "But was there a program?"

    Button: "No, of course not. There was arm movements and jumps."


    I think the comments from Mishin are just the beginning of a campaign aimed primarily at Chan but others too.

    Mishin wants ISU to accept a front loaded program full of fire and personality to trump all other aspects of skating.

    He clearly wants SS and step sequences devalued.

    Part of me agrees with Mishin. I think Patrick may have the best SS but it seems over valued at times.

    I accept Chan does some things that the general public does not appreciate.
    When this happened with school figures the public outcry (and TV money) led to figures being devalued.

    In the case of SS it would be better for the sport if ISU listened to the fans.

    Skaters like Dai and Hanyu, and yes, Plushenko are not being rewarded fairly for what they bring to the ice.

    If Chan's SS is going to feel like the dominant factor in determining scores why not drop the facade and bring back figures?

    Only this time let skating fans see it. New technolgy makes this very possible.

    Otherwise the sport will continue to suffer and flounder by leaving fans confused as to the outcome.

    Watching 2012 Worlds yesterday it felt to me like Dai and Hanyu should have been placed above Chan in the LP.
    Fans in attendance seemed to feel the same thing.
    Last edited by janetfan; 08-30-2012 at 08:55 AM.

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    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    Is he talking CoP or Plushy's footwork? (which to me has never seemed refined or in control... swat them wasps!)
    I can think of many examples of what Mishin mentioned. The IJS has had positive effects, such as more difficulty and attention paid to non-jump elements, but it's also had drawbacks for these elements. Specifically in the case of footwork, I would cite the emphasis on difficulty over quality - you can get the levels so long as you pack in everything, no matter how long the sequence is or how (un)attractive it looks; and including upper body movement as a major component in the evaluation of a sequence. If you're playing a drunken pirate or being chased by bees, I guess it's okay, but often the upper body movement distracts from the footwork and adds little. So yes, I agree with some of what Mishin suggests, and in both sequences and in programs in general, I would like to see fewer changes of direction and even less variety of steps in favor of skating actually holding an edge and really getting into the ice.

    BTW, I believe Plushenko was the second skater to receive a level 4 on a step sequence. Daisuke Takahashi was the first.
    Last edited by Buttercup; 08-30-2012 at 08:11 AM.

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    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Wasn't "Godfather" one of the programs ISU used as an example for judges to show poor CoP skating?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21woRiBqrks


    I may like and admire Plushy but did not find "Godfather" an interesting or well constructed program.

    From the clip:

    Scott: "All in all not nearly what I expected."

    Button: He has passion, attack, and ferocity. I could never take my eyes off him. He always keeps me riveted.

    Scott: "But was there a program?"

    Button: "No, of course not. There was arm movements and jumps."


    I think the comments from Mishin are just the beginning of a campaign aimed primarily at Chan but others too.

    Mishin wants ISU to accept a front loaded program full of fire and personality to trump all other aspects of skating.

    He clearly wants SS and step sequences devalued.

    Part of me agrees with Mishin. I think Patrick may have the best SS but it seems over valued at times.

    I accept Chan does some things that the general public does not appreciate.
    When this happened with school figures the public outcry (and TV money) led to figures being devaluated.

    In the case of SS it would be better for the sport if ISU listened to the fans.

    Skaters like Dai and Hanyu, and yes, Plushenko are not being rewarded fairly for what they bring to the ice.

    If Chan's SS is going to feel like the dominant factor in determining scores why not drop the facade and bring back figures?

    Only this time let skating fans see it. New technolgy makes this very possible.

    Otherwise the sport will continue to suffer and flounder by leaving fans confused as to the outcome.

    Watching 2012 Worlds yesterday it felt to me like Dai and Hanyu should have been placed above Chan in the LP.
    Fans in attendance seemed to feel the same thing.
    I know the NBC's commentators...they are not gods, and we have another opinios, listen to the audience in the arena
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21woRiBqrks
    some comments to the video:
    "He knows his limitations." ---> what???!!! This is the new system your sport designed and he's working it to win Gold! This man is a marvel, and he has such personality and innate fire that he doesn't require the fanciest of choreography to win. His love for skating is apparently every second he's on the ice. I'm an American, and I must say I prefer him a million times more than Lysacek. Plushy is a legend."
    or
    No emotions?? come on!!! If the system demands jumps - he jumps, which takes time and preparation of course. Otherwise he could just artistically run round the rink expressing himself non-stop. The day was the most important in his career, he didn't go for emotions this time, he went for gold. Well done.
    or
    "Solid technically but average artistically" This coming from the countrymen of the figure skating abomination Evan Lysacek. Who in fact is not only an artistic failure, but nowhere near the technical skater Plushenko is.
    or
    HATE HATE HATE these commentators!!! My gosh, all negative comments throughout his performance! Just plain interruption for us to appreciate this great program, compared to the ESPN commentators NBC is sooooo biased!!! I agreed appreciation to his great skating is taken away! Cannot believe this kind of biased nonsense still broadcast in USA, what a pity to USA! Is that's what they have left?!
    I COULD SAY SPORT COMMENTATORS IN USA ARE BIASED AND FULL OF BS THAN THOSE IN CHINA WHOM THEY CONDEMNED


    and what is more important
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNIENLK-tfM ESPN commentary, listen to them!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJ0S6NPTPI8

    How is it possible? they are so different.
    Last edited by plushyfan; 08-30-2012 at 04:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    I know the NBC's commentators...they are not gods, and we have another opinios, listen to the audience in the arena

    I COULD SAY SPORT COMMENTATORS IN USA ARE BIASED AND FULL OF BS THAN THOSE IN CHINA WHOM THEY CONDEMNED[/SIZE][/SIZE]

    and what is more important
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNIENLK-tfM ESPN commentary, listen to them!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJ0S6NPTPI8

    How is it possible? they are so different.
    I can't read most of your post...could you please edit it to make it easier to read?

    In some cases ........perhaps there are cultural differences.

    What Mishin thinks is beautiful skating and a great balanced program may not be the same as experts and fans from N. America.

    BTW, I was defending Plushy............

    I think if Chan gets a 9 for P/E then Plush should get a score that reflects the difference.......perhaps 12 -15.

    Same for Dai and even Hanyu at this point.

    You felt compelled to mention Evan...... not me.

    I disagree with many CoP podiums....Vancouver for sure.

    And don't forget Plushy wants to be like Dick Button ........ and who can blame him

    ETA: Buttercup's comments were interesting to me....was hoping to hear more thoughts - pro or con- in that direction.
    Last edited by janetfan; 08-30-2012 at 08:57 AM.

  9. #9
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    I can't read most of your post...could you please edit it to make it easier to read?

    In some cases ........perhaps there are cultural differences.

    What Mishin thinks is beautiful skating and a great balanced program may not be the same as experts and fans from N. America.



    BTW, I was defending Plushy............

    I think if Chan gets a 9 for P/E then Plush should get a score that reflects the difference.......perhaps 12 -15.

    Same for Dai and even Hanyu at this point.

    You felt compelled to mention Evan...... not me.

    I disagree with many CoP podiums....Vancouver for sure.

    And don't forget Plushy wants to be like Dick Button ........ and who can blame him

    ETA: Buttercup's comments were interesting to me....was hoping to hear more thoughts - pro or con- in that direction.
    Sorry, I don't understand you, why you can hardly read my posts? Because of my bad english or my posts are too long and confusing?( I already wanted to apologize to all members of this forum because of my terrible English.)
    Yes, maybe you are right, in some cases the reasons are the cultural differences. But the ESPN is also North-American channel, and the commentators are living in same cultural environment. I wasn't mentioned Evan, I quoted the comments to Godfather video.

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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post

    Scott: "But was there a program?"

    Button: "No, of course not. There was arm movements and jumps."
    OMG, that is sooo exact description of Godfather programme (or Plushenko¨s skating generally)!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    About Evan:

    "I don’t care which spins will Lysacek perform, whether he’ll execute a quad or a triple Axel. The fact of his comeback is what interests me.
    Rather surprising considering that it´s coming from Mishin´s mouth...
    Last edited by Jaana; 08-30-2012 at 01:03 PM.

  11. #11
    I like pie. Tonichelle's Avatar
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    plushyfan - it's hard to read your post because most of it is done in a smaller font.

    also, you mention that ESPN commentator's were better, but Dick Button is one of the ones quoted above - and he was an ESPN commentator before he jumped over to NBC. I don't think they don't appreciate what Plushenko can do, we all can appreciate that Plushenko is one of the best ever in his field, but that doesn't mean everyone's going to like what he puts out on the ice.
    Last edited by Tonichelle; 08-30-2012 at 01:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    plushyfan - it's hard to read your post because most of it is done in a smaller font.
    I agree with this comment! And would like to add that it is also unnecessary to quote the whole posting, as one answers it.

  13. #13
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    THX! I understand. I won't post in smaller font. Maybe Button was an ESPN commentator, I just wanted to show the commentaries are totally different.
    Last edited by plushyfan; 08-30-2012 at 01:27 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    THX! I understand. I won't post in smaller font. Maybe Button was an ESPN commentator, I just wanted to show the commentaries are totally different.
    Already mentioned - but yes I was referring to the smaller font. The smaller font is cool but maybe not so much of it and with little or no spacing.

    Your English is fine and I am glad you can share your opinions here.

    Back in 2006 NBC did a nice fluff feature on Plushy that showed nothing but respect for his skating and the struggle he went through on his rise to the TOP of the skating world.

    This is what NBC told America about Plushy:


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmT5g_hSU4E
    Last edited by janetfan; 08-30-2012 at 02:54 PM.

  15. #15
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Already mentioned - but yes I was referring to the smaller font. The smaller font is cool but maybe not so much of it and with little or no spacing.

    Your English is fine and I am glad you can share your opinions here.

    Back in 2006 NBC did a nice fluff feature on Plushy that showed nothing but respect for his skating and the struggle he went through on his rise to the TOP of the skating world.

    This is what NBC told America about Plushy:


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmT5g_hSU4E
    THX! You are very polite. I know this video, , Plushy is a great person. In fact you can't show Plushy's videos, what I haven't seen on YouTube.
    Last edited by plushyfan; 08-30-2012 at 04:25 PM.

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