Travel by trains in Europe: your suggestions/advice, sil vous plait! | Golden Skate

Travel by trains in Europe: your suggestions/advice, sil vous plait!

deedee1

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Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Travel by trains in Europe: your suggestions/advice, s'il vous plait!

Dear GS members, :)

I plan a trip to Europe in October. My original plan is to purchase an Eurail Global Pass (=discount train pass for foreign travellers outside of Europe), fly into one of European cities from Tokyo, and travel by trains within Europe for 3-4 weeks.

I bought travel guidebooks and started my planning. I was initially thinking of flying into Zurich, for instance, travel by trains within Switzerland for 4-5 days first. From Bern to Lyonn via Express train (TGV? idk for sure), stay there 2 days, then travel down to Provence and Monaco by local trains, staying overnight at a couple of places in between for 4-5 days. Then to Italy and travel about one week; probably to Milan, Firenze, Roma (and Venezia if the schedule allows us). And go to Zurich and fly back to Tokyo.
Or, flying into Amsterdam first, then to Brussel and Paris, and travel down to Lyonn, Provence and Italy. Then fly from Milan/Roma to Amsterdam and back to Tokyo.

The problem right now for me is the more I learn about how train system works within Europe and the detailed conditions for Eurail Global Pass, the more I am at a loss...In order to get on an Express trains; such as TGV, Thalys or Eurostar Italia, I, as an Eurail pass holder, need to pay extra for these trains, need to pay and reserve the seat (because they have all-reserved seats, only). And the slots (number of seats) for Eurail pass holders are very limited. If the slots are sold out already, I have to buy a ticket at full cost to get on that specific express trains. The worst senario, the guidebook tells me, is even though I am willing to pay for a ticket at full cost, all seats are all sold out in advance for some most popular trains; e.g. Glaicer Express (especially in summer), TGV btwn Paris-Marseille, or Chizarpino btwn Italy-Swiss, so that there is no way for me to get on those trains to begin with...There seem so many strict conditions for pass holders and unforseeable things for me, maybe? Now I am not sure how reasonal/beneficial/flexible/convenient to hold this Eurail Global Pass, or if it's even worth to purchase this pass...

Maybe I should forget about this pass, and buy a French Rail Pass instead, which 'Easy access service' enables me to buy tickets for at least all TGVs at the additional charge of euro12, as long as any of reserved seats are still available. Then just go to stations at each city where I stay, and try to buy tickets for the next day.

To those who traveled from outside of Europe using Eurail Global Pass, please let me know how convenient it was. And to those who live within Europe and are familiar with these train systems, what do you think is the best way for me to purchase pass/tickets. I would very very very much appreciate you for any suggestions and advice. :yes:

Also, recommending me a couple of cities/towns/villages I should visit, especially in autumn, besides big cities such as Milan and Roma would be much appreciated. I would prefer smaller cities than, say Paris.
Many many thanks in advance! :)
 
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Joined
Aug 16, 2009
How delectable your trip sounds, even at this early stage.They say that October is the best time to visit Europe, because the summer crowds have left. I hope Seniorita checks in to this thread, because she seems to be quite a traveler. I've only been to Britain, so I can't advise on details, but I've seen pictures of the chateaux in the Loire Valley in France, and they're splendid. Switzerland is a place I've always wanted to see, and in Italy, Siena is supposed to be a knockout.
 

Tonichelle

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Jun 27, 2003
I know Seniorita is on vacation/holiday at the moment, but I suggest PMing her. She does quite a bit of travelling in Europe. I've never been, but I would suggest looking at http://www.tripadvisor.com for reviews and help (I think they have a forum for questions like yours).
 

deedee1

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Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Thanks a lot, Olympia and Toni! :)
Sounds a great idea to contact Seniorita via PM. I will do that. :yes: Will also check 'tripadvisor'. Again thank YOU, TWO!!!
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
We can't wait to hear about your grand adventure. I hope you enjoy every moment of it, even the planning.
 

dorispulaski

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Oh deedee1 do tell us about it all when you return.

I can't do trips that strenuous, but I love to hear about them and travel vicariously. :love:
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
And by train! What could be better. The entire landscape will open out to you.

If you travel in Central Europe, you might end up on railway lines Dvorak used. Here's a quote from an information source:
"After music, Dvorak's strongest interest was trains, and he was often seen at the railway station in Prague observing, studying railway schedules, and visiting with railway engineers."

Have you used Google Earth to scope out places you might visit? I hear it gives amazing views.

And maybe you'll even get to see some skating events, if you're in the right place at the right time.
 

Tonichelle

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Jun 27, 2003
yes! definitely keep us updated. one of my favorite parts of a trip is the planning! sounds weird I know, but I love wittling down the itinerary... I'm a massive planner, drives people nuts, but it's so much fun! even when it's confusing, it's like a puzzle!
 

deedee1

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
I ll write next days.

:love: THANK YOU, Seniorita!!! But as I wrote, you do not have to hurry to do that, okay? :)

one of my favorite parts of a trip is the planning! sounds weird I know, but I love wittling down the itinerary... I'm a massive planner, drives people nuts, but it's so much fun! even when it's confusing, it's like a puzzle!

Toni, I always love making itinerary on my own, too! When I finish making it, packing my stuff and get on the limousine bus to the airport finally, it's like half of my trip is over already. The happiest moment for me in the first half of my trip is the moment I get too excited and exhausted by the time, and fall asleep in that limouisne bus on my way to the airport. :yes:

As for 'driving people nuts', my hubby felt that way, I guess, when I told him I wanted to buy Thomas Cook European Rail Timetable (written in English, of course). :biggrin: The problem is it's also killing myself this time, though. :laugh:
 

Tonichelle

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Jun 27, 2003
Ha ha! I can just imagine, but wow what an adventure, all of it will be so worth it!
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
:love: THANK YOU, Seniorita!!! But as I wrote, you do not have to hurry to do that, okay? :)



Toni, I always love making itinerary on my own, too! When I finish making it, packing my stuff and get on the limousine bus to the airport finally, it's like half of my trip is over already. The happiest moment for me in the first half of my trip is the moment I get too excited and exhausted by the time, and fall asleep in that limouisne bus on my way to the airport. :yes:

As for 'driving people nuts', my hubby felt that way, I guess, when I told him I wanted to buy Thomas Cook European Rail Timetable (written in English, of course). :biggrin: The problem is it's also killing myself this time, though. :laugh:

Oh, man, the Cook's Timetable. I have a really old one; it's a thick book that was a hand-me-down from a friend who replaced her old copy with a more up-to-date one. It has every train line you can imagine, even lines in Burma (now Myanmar, but this is an old book). With me the thing that entrances is the place names. Irawaddy! Szeged! I also love looking in Webster's Geographical Dictionary for the same reasons. The Webster's lists locations all over the world, and gives their ancient names as well--for example, it gives the ancient Roman or Gaulish names of lots of European cities. London was Londinium, and Paris was Lutecia. And I also love taxonomy, the genus and species names of animals, like Acinonyx jubatus, the cheetah.

Have fun doing your planning, Deedee. Your husband will be grateful for your foresight when you get him smoothly from place to place. You will be far too gracious to say "I told you so," of course. But you can come tell us.
 
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let`s talk

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
deedee1 said:
I was initially thinking of flying into Zurich, for instance, travel by trains within Switzerland for 4-5 days first. From Bern to Lyonn via Express train (TGV? idk for sure), stay there 2 days, then travel down to Provence and Monaco by local trains, staying overnight at a couple of places in between for 4-5 days. Then to Italy and travel about one week; probably to Milan, Firenze, Roma (and Venezia if the schedule allows us). And go to Zurich and fly back to Tokyo.


Or, flying into Amsterdam first, then to Brussel and Paris, and travel down to Lyonn, Provence and Italy. Then fly from Milan/Roma to Amsterdam and back to Tokyo.

There seem so many strict conditions for pass holders and unforseeable things for me, maybe?


Also, recommending me a couple of cities/towns/villages I should visit, especially in autumn, besides big cities such as Milan and Roma would be much appreciated. I would prefer smaller cities than, say Paris.


Oh, my! I seldom check Le Cafe and what a gorgeous thread I see here. Your European vacation is gonna be marvelous! Especially if you don't spoil it with the need to rush around ticket offices. They have travel agencies and internet that will solve all your problems. The difference in price is not worthy to waste your time on some logistics crap when you are on holiday. I never use any Pass because they are all discounts tickets which means you will be their last priority.

To start you trip with Amsterdam is just cool! The city of idyllic canals and never-end yourth party. And in Amsterdam they serve you real Heineken, not some beerwater in green cans. Paris is well-described in all guide books. Just keep your eye on the wallet especially in Montmartre (better not to keep big money in the wallet at all, put banknotes in the guide-book, nobody steals guidebooks). I am not saying that European cities are not safe. I am saying that Japan is unrealistically safe. Europe is just a real world. The Eiffel Tower is mandatory to visit at night. With all that illumination it's like a science fiction, a spaceship that landed on earth. Versailles is technically in the surburb of Paris but it's always overcrowded. I wasn't shocked with its beauty simply because in my home city St-Petersburg palaces are way more beautiful. The nice place to escape the noisy Paris for a day could be the town Chartres. The local train takes your there for abour 40-45 minutes for like 15 euros or somesuch. This town is not mentioned in every guide book and honestly I never heard about it before I went there. During one of my visits in Paris some stuff was canceled, and I wanted to get to the nature somewhere but I couldn't leave Paris yet. I simple asked the hotel staff and the lovely woman recommended me that place. Btw, all this talks that French are arrogant are bs. Just address them "Madam" with the stress on the second syllable instead of "Excuse me" and you are "in". It's a fabulous town that is unfairly forgotten by most of major tourist routes. http://www.chartres-tourisme.com/ www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chartres Loire Valley is marvelous and unbelievably picturesque. The Fairy Tale. We went there by car on our way from Spain, so I have no idea how to go there by public transport. http://loirevalley-worldheritage.org/(album)/3/(photos)/Autumn http://loire-chateaux.org/ Saint-Paul de Vence is maybe just a town, but it's greatly popular with its artistc atmosphere and liberal taste www.saint-pauldevence.com Monaco is good because everyone gets up at around 2pm. So all morning beaches and sea will be yours. But compared to Cannes Monaco is boring. You put Venice in (..) with "if the schedule allow us"? Oh, come on! Trash such an Italian schedule that doesn't include Venice. Actually the city at first might look not that wow! as guide books usually describe it. For me it looked like a ghost-city that was left by its citizens and now only tourists are wandering around. Most of the buidlings are in bad conditions and urgently need renovation. In fact Italy in general looks messier and less taken care of than Germany and France. But each Italian city/town/village is a museum in the open air. Btw, you might be disasppointed with the taste of Italian food in Italy, even in fancy places. I mean Italian restaurants in Japan serve much more delicious stuff. All major Italian cities are perfectly presented in books, so no need for me here to say what you might already know. I just say that Rome was the most shocking city for me with its quintessence of history and art. Switzerland is Paradise! Especially their villages and countryside. Green fields, flowers everywhere, cows with ribbons in the "hair", etc. I took my picture on the hotel terrace and my friends thought that I was in the museum standing in front of some painting. They couldn't believe that it was the reality, not a picture. Besides major cities the Chillon Castle on Lake Geneva is worth visiting www.chillon.ch/en/ And in the peaceful tiny Grindelwald you'll see the real Alps (not the fake ones in Japan)! http://grindelwald.ch What a shame that Spain is out of your route now. As well as Austria, Prague... Oh, well. Next time then. Bon voyage! :)
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
There--you see? A second vote for the chateaux on the Loire River (and Let's Talk is obviously an experienced traveler, not like me who's just seen pictures). I echo LT's suggestion to put Chartres on your list. If you like cathedrals, Chartres is one of the most beautiful in the world. It has a rose window that will make you shed tears.

This thread is becoming more and more delightful!
 

Kalina

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 30, 2012
I can't say much about other countries in Europe (I visited, but I'm not an expert), but if you need some info about Italy, feel free to ask :)
Roma and Venezia are a must see, but if you're staying a week and you want to visit a couple of museums too, you might not have time to visit something else. A good schedule, considering travel times as well would be Venezia for a couple of days, Firenze one is enough unless you plan to visit Uffizi or the Duomo, Roma for three days.
 

deedee1

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Everyone, thank you so much for all your precious advice and practical suggestions! :)

Let's talk and Olympia, thank you for mentioning Loire Valley and its link. I already knew there are a couple of famous chateaux, e.g. Chambord and Chenonceau, but the link and its map just has surprised me to notice the area actually has almost 80 chateaux! :eek:
The last time we visited France we spent a lot of time in Paris, so that we are thinking to skip Paris this time and to start our trip within France from Lyon. Checking the site, however, it now sounds a good idea to visit Loire area. :yes: The problem would be, I think, it takes longer to move from West to East via trains in France (while it's usually easy faster and more convenient to travel down South from Paris via TGV)...

As for Roma, a Japanese TV has just aired "Roman Holiday" by Audrey Hepburn and Gregory Peck tonight. Though I watched this lovely movie a couple of times already since childhood and it's Monday night ;), why could I not help but watching it once more? :biggrin: As Kalina suggests, we should stay there at least three days!
 

Kalina

On the Ice
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Jul 30, 2012
I suggested three days for Rome because Rome is big :biggrin: and there's something noteworthy to see everywhere, even in the outskirts of the city, so you might want to take your time looking around. I remember staying a week and I probably didn't see much, so you should think carefully about what you really want to see before you get there.

I don't really know about what you might be interested in -- just looking around the city, museums, or shopping (there are lots of tourists that come here only for that, actually) -- but there are some very practical advices I can give you that are useful regardless :biggrin: first thing, you'll probably have no problem in finding good, even last-minute deals for hotels in both Rome and Florence, but Venice is, on the average, much more expensive: you might want to look at hotels in Venice first, and look carefully. Another thing is that although Venice looks small, getting around it on foot takes too much time and you'll surely need to take the vaporetto a lot (it's a waterbus): but a vaporetto ticket (lasts 1 hour) is 7 euros :eek: so first thing to do, when you get off the train, is to buy a vaporetto pass for the number of days that you're staying there. You'll need it not only to get around but also if you want to visit all of the islands of Venice: Burano is pretty, Lido is too, Murano is full of murano glass shops and nothing else so you might want to skip it, unless you're interested in that of course.
For Florence, if you can get to an hotel near the railway station of Santa Maria Novella, then you can go everywhere on foot, no problem at all. If you want to visit the Uffizi museum, know that you have to reserve the tickets online beforehand, and that visiting the Duomo is almost impossible, the queue is endless. But maybe it will be different in October.
In Rome you'll need a bus/subway pass too. I see that there are three-day passes which are good for both the subway and the bus, but I suggest taking the subway only, because there's so much traffic in Rome that you might find yourself waiting for a bus for an hour or more. Also, finding an hotel near Termini railway station is probably a good idea, because the train/bus to Fiumicino (the airport) leaves from there, but that depends on how you decide to plan your journey.

On a totally different note, something that you really need to know about eating in restaurants (all restaurants, even the non-fancy ones) in touristy places in Italy, is that you have to be careful about the coperto/cover charge/service charge. Here is an article that explains it very well. I can't leave it out, I still remember one Japanese couple making the news because a restaurant in Rome had charged them around 700 euros for one meal :eek: and of course they'd gone to the police. It was an extreme situation, but it's better if you know.
 

deedee1

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Joined
Nov 14, 2007
On a totally different note, something that you really need to know about eating in restaurants (all restaurants, even the non-fancy ones) in touristy places in Italy, is that you have to be careful about the coperto/cover charge/service charge. Here is an article that explains it very well. I can't leave it out, I still remember one Japanese couple making the news because a restaurant in Rome had charged them around 700 euros for one meal :eek: and of course they'd gone to the police. It was an extreme situation, but it's better if you know.

Thanks a lot for the info! :)

Yeah, that was quite a news in Japan back then...:no: the story ended up that the Italian Minister of Tourism had to offer this couple an invitation to Rome one more time for $$$ reason; which was they feared this incident might give a misleading impression of Italy/Rome and may lose quite a number of travelers from Japan in the future, I remember.

I have a question to those who are familiar with train systems in France.
How conveninent (or inconvenient) to move from West to East (or vice versa); for instance, from Tours (Loire Valley area) to Lyon, or from Bordeaux to Lyon? Does anyone know, please? I know it takes longer because there are no TGVs available in between, but my question is how often local/express trains do run?

Also, I am interested in Agriturismo in, say, Tuscana Italy.
Do they accept tourists for a short stay? Normally, they accept tourists on a weekly basis, right? but we probably can afford staying overnight (or two nights at the lonegest), I think. And these places are usually located far from the nearest stations, if so we may have to give up the plan.
Are there any places you would recommend to visit besides Milano, Venezia, Firenze and Roma? e would like to visit Italian countryside; e.g. a beautiful village with vineyard. But since we will travel not by a car but trains oWnly, we would prefer places that are not too far from stations.

Again many thanks a lot in advance! :)
 

ImaginaryPogue

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Jun 3, 2009
I loved the Eurail pass when I went. I admit that my plan changed daily, though. My itinerary went out the window by the third country. Eventually, sleeping on a park bench in Spain due to poor planning made me wish I didn't change it so drastically.
 

deedee1

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Nov 14, 2007
I loved the Eurail pass when I went. I admit that my plan changed daily, though. My itinerary went out the window by the third country. Eventually, sleeping on a park bench in Spain due to poor planning made me wish I didn't change it so drastically.

:love: You are the first one to have posted a comment as someone who actually traveled Europe using Eurail pass. Thanks a lot for that, Pogue! :)

And so sorry to learn that you had to sleep on a park bench :eek: in Spain...I sincerely hope the local people in each country were good enough and kind to you during your whole trip, so that you did not get into any serious trouble.
 
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