Finlandia Trophy 2012 Oct 5 - Oct 7

[icellist]

The judging in the ladies competition is a joke to me. How does Kiira have a Lvl4 step sequence and Mirai have a Lvl2 step sequence. IMO I thought all top 3 ladies had a Lvl3 step sequence. Also, the PCS scoring is a farce. I agree that Mirai should've had lower PCS in SP because she was behind or ahead of the music for most of her program. Kiira's PCS in the FS is a blasphemy. How does her FS with mistakes on all but 2 jumps still trump Mirai's 1 fall performance. Both of Julia's programs were transitionless except for her self-indulging leg lifts and ugly ina bauers. Julia should have had slightly higher PCS than Mirai in the SP. Mirai should've had the better PCS in the FS because she actually has the skating skill, choreography and transitions despite the one fall. The PCS scoring has to be realistic.

[IleK]

Hello, everyone! This is the third time I try to post on this forum and I hope I'll be more lucky than before. I was banned everytime because my post included a link. I understand there is a rule for the first post but I dont understand what happened the second time when I received the same message like before, that I was banned because this is my first post and it has a link in it. Well, it was my second.
Last night I wrote this and posted together with a link with Kiira's LP which I see it was posted in the meantime.

I' ve always been a fan of Kiira, but this year I like her more than ever. I think figure skating neads more maturity to be more than just a sport. I remember Kiira when she was 17, a good jumper, she had a very secure lutz (I am glad she put it back in her long programe, it was good enough for the first competition) but she was criticized for the lack of artistry even though she had the same shiny smile all over her face while performing. This is one thing I love about her. Mirai also used to have a cute smile back in 2010 but now she barely smiled at the end of her LP. So did Julia. And now, after 7 years Kiira became the artist that maybe nobody expected. In fact she is at least for the last 3 years. She still has very good jumping technique but iconstance is her trouble. She has one of the best 2 axel and 3loop, very high and beautiful landed.
I think it is not fair and nor realistic to make a comparison between the three girls, at least between Kiira and Julia. There are 10 years of experience that separetes them and they shouldnt even compete against each other. As much as I like the little russian girls, I am glad that the rules have changed and that from now on we wont see little girls competing in GP, making use of their imature tiny bodies to jump and spin because that is not talent,it is just a moment in time, the next year it will not be the same. It happenned to all of them, like it happens now to Liza T., like it happened last year to Adelina and some years ago to Caroline Z and Mirai. Adults should compete against adults and children against children, in all competition not only the big ones, otherwise the skaters will receive a wrong message about their skating.

[FSGMT]

Adults should compete against adults and children against children, in all competition not only the big ones, otherwise the skaters will receive a wrong message about their skating.

[Mathman]

Welcome, IleK. Thanks for persisting!

I am sorry it took three tries for your post to appear. The "no link in first post rule" is an automatic anti-spam feature. After you make one post that does not contain a link, you are good to go.

Post often, post long!

[Tonichelle]

Hello, everyone! This is the third time I try to post on this forum and I hope I'll be more lucky than before. I was banned everytime because my post included a link. I understand there is a rule for the first post but I dont understand what happened the second time when I received the same message like before, that I was banned because this is my first post and it has a link in it. Well, it was my second.
Last night I wrote this and posted together with a link with Kiira's LP which I see it was posted in the meantime.

because until THIS post you didn't have a first post in the eyes of the board (not the people running it, the board program itself). Once you get a post count, which you do now, you can post a link. Sorry for the frustration, but if this wasn't in place we'd have so much spam to deal with it'd choke the boards!

[sky_fly20]

some more videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/tubeyouv.../videos?view=0

Ice Dance Victory Ceremony

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3KYzfTIG44&feature=plcp

Julia Close -up HQ FS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwKmBHTW4_0

Ladies Victory Ceremony

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brPbXcMr3kI&feature=plcp

Kiira and Julia signing autographs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bqjqr-R0Xw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDRy9Ou5HqM

[IleK]

because until THIS post you didn't have a first post in the eyes of the board (not the people running it, the board program itself). Once you get a post count, which you do now, you can post a link. Sorry for the frustration, but if this wasn't in place we'd have so much spam to deal with it'd choke the boards!

Well, its too late to bring this up anyway but... who is Paula?? I hope I'm not mistaken, she replied me first time when I was banned and when I told her that maybe I will post something on another occasion and with no link attached she said that from mow on I can post how many links I want because this happens only for the first post that contains a link. So, I did. I tried to post what it appears now to be my first post together with a link to Kiira's LP and I was banned again. I do understand the need on these rules, but sometimes things like these happen and it is not at all pleasant for a new comer banned once, banned twice, then maybe I shouldnt bother. But now I am here, I am good, I am a peaceful person so I dont think I'll ever give you reasons to ban me again:-D Just hope to have time to write when I feel like I have something that is worth saying.

[IleK]

Ok, its not Paula's fault. Doris explained me something about maintenance and reseting. Thank you Doris and thank you Mathman for welcoming!

[Jaana]

Adults should compete against adults and children against children, in all competition not only the big ones, otherwise the skaters will receive a wrong message about their skating.

I agree totally!!! Children like Julia should not be allowed to compete in any senior competitions.

Just hope to have time to write when I feel like I have something that is worth saying.

Write anyway, so do most of us ...

[AlexRus]

I' ve always been a fan of Kiira, but this year I like her more than ever.

But if other skater skates better - this otner skater (no matter of name, nation, age) must have higher place.

I think it is not fair and nor realistic to make a comparison between the three girls, at least between Kiira and Julia.

No problem in fact. See Rule 522 of "SPECIAL REGULATIONS & TECHNICAL RULES SINGLE & PAIR SKATING and ICE DANCE 2012 as accepted by the 54th Ordinary Congress June 2012". There is the major info. Other info is in ISU Communication 1724.

There are 10 years of experience that separetes them

See results of Worlds-2012. Kexin ZHANG is 10 and half years younger than Akiko SUZUKI. Difference in experience is about the same number of years as difference in age.
What is the problem that refuses them to compete?
And also there was not a problem that refused Akiko SUZUKI to win Kexin ZHANG.

making use of their imature tiny bodies to jump and spin because that is not talent,it is just a moment in time

I know about 100 Russian skater girls, and tens of other nations (in fact all best in Russia and, I believe, best of non-Russians) of Lipnitskaia's age and younger. Only one of them - Elena Radionova - is close in level to Julia.
May be, Julia and Elena are very talented?

the next year it will not be the same.

Yes. It will not be the same. It may be better.
I know Julia from 2009 March, when she was 6th at "Memorial of Stanislav Zhuk"(younger age) (it is "Russian national baby championship").
From that time season to season Julia skates better and better. And in all seasons better at end of season than at beginning of season.

And I hope that Julia's skating this season will be significantly better, than in past season (when she had 4th in the World Season Best score).

[IleK]

AlexRus, you seem offended by what I wrote and I am sorry If I did that. It wasnt my intention. That was my first post and I thought I should tell something about me to present myself as a figure skating fan when I said that I ve always been Kiira's fan and this year even those who are not her fans say she has two gorgeous programmes. This statement has nothing to do with other skaters, I dont make discrimination on any criteria and I am not finnish, by the way. I have no national skaters between the big names, so I kind of like everybody, and some more than the others.

Thank you for recommandation and sorry if I will not read that rule, maybe you will be kind to tell me what it says. Maybe you got me wrong or maybe not. I say it is not a fair comparison because Julia is too young to ask her to be artistic even though there are some girls who were very artistic at her age, like Sasha Cohen, or her compatriote Liza Tukt who had 2 amazing programmes last year. And in the same time Kiira is old enough to not be a jumping bean anymore. There are many examples like her, Carolina Kostner, Miki Ando who both were very good jumpers in their early years and with time they lost a big part of their jumping ability and gained on the artistic side. And I find this normal and natural.
Kexin Zhang was a senior last year and it is still unfair to make a comparison between her and Akiko, nobody said they shouldnt compete against eachother, Kexin doesnt look like a kid who's body hasn't grown yet, she has the proper age to compete against seniors, its Akiko's choice to compete at 28. You lost my point and also skipped on the part "as much as I like the little russian girls". I was amazed by Julia 2 years ago and was very happy to lets say discover her on youtube and tell the others about her that she will defintely make a name internationaly. I was happy for her achievementes from last year and maybe I expected more this year, more than just jump, spin, jump, spin. This is what I meant when I said that this is not talent, just a moment in time, she cant make PCS like this and at this competition she really got more than she deserved in PCS because there was nothing between the elments and she had no expression at all. But this os something that she will work on the following years. I never ment she didnt deserve to win. Yes, she did. But she shouldnt have been in a senior competion. Rules should be rules for everyone and every competion because they are made for the same reasons.

I truly hope that these girls, Julia, Elena and of course Liza that I love so much have enough power and strenght to fight the puberty monster. Adelina almost did it, she struggled last year and she is stil struggling but I think she almost made it. She also lost those difficult combination that she used to do in 2011 when she won every competition but Adelina is not all about the jumps and spins. She is a joy to watch and her spins are the most beautiful and gracious. If you think that I have something against the russian girls you couldnt be more wrong. I am an european girl and I root for all the european figure skaters and now the russian girls are better and hope they will make the podium at least al Euros. If there is someone I dont like that is Alena, I totally disliked her from the first time I sow her an more since she is with Nikolai. I hope the younger ones will top her this season.

I know I am off topic so I will be just a little bit more. The girls are my favourite to watch. I started with Sasha Cohen and continued now with Kiira Korpi, Alissa Czisny, Carolina Kostner. Akiko Suzuki, Eelene Gedevanishvili, Ashley Wagner, Mao Aasada, Miki Ando, Yuna Kim and the russian baies of course. I am waiting for the moment when they will not be called like this anymore. I' ve seen some amazing programmes from Kiira, Akiko, Ashley And Mao. They are all so good and there are more to come that I dont think there was a more competitive season than this that has just begun. Good luck to all of them!

[Adeliza]

Any videos of press conferences or interviews, anyone?

[let`s talk]

You lost my point

Then tell us what your point is. You are not the only one who says that grown-up 20+ women shouldn't compete with pre-puberty teen jumping beans. How is ISU supposed to set the rule if puberty comes not exactly at the same time in teen girls' life. Some face it earlier, some a little later, etc. Now the ISU has the simple rule- age in your passport. What is your offer? Or to allow gilrs to compete like in roller coasters "you should be that high to ride here"?

[gmyers]

Then tell us what your point is. You are not the only one who says that grown-up 20+ women shouldn't compete with pre-puberty teen jumping beans. How is ISU supposed to set the rule if puberty comes not exactly at the same time in teen girls' life. Some face it earlier, some a little later, etc. Now the ISU has the simple rule- age in your passport. What is your offer? Or to allow gilrs to compete like in roller coasters "you should be that high to ride here"?

I think some do want the roller coaster rule!

[IleK]

Then tell us what your point is. You are not the only one who says that grown-up 20+ women shouldn't compete with pre-puberty teen jumping beans. How is ISU supposed to set the rule if puberty comes not exactly at the same time in teen girls' life. Some face it earlier, some a little later, etc. Now the ISU has the simple rule- age in your passport. What is your offer? Or to allow gilrs to compete like in roller coasters "you should be that high to ride here"?

I have already told you. I think I wrote enough on this subject, I dont want a PhD based on this. If I didn't make my self clear than... let's say it's my fault. It was just a point of view, nothing more, based on my personal impression after watching this competition. You are entitled to think different. I don't want to change anyone's ideas with mine. Now I am sorry I replied to AlexRus, bad idea. And this is my last post at least on this thread.