Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 48

Thread: How are the US Juniors viewed?

  1. #1
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,578

    How are the US Juniors viewed?

    We have skaters and people who understand CoP far better than I do, or likely will. I watch for who I find beautiful and who moves me. It is getting harder to find skaters who actually move me. In exhibition skating, I can enjoy Patrick, with few jumps, no falls, no Chanflation. There were programs last year and skaters that did beautiful proframs, and the skaters did well. So, it is possible.

    My favorite programs last year, that did move me, and were winners were Black Swan and Carolina's LP. Actually, these two skaters performed the heck out of their sp's which were quirky and similar. I rewatch these, so I know I like it. I also am not a big l
    Leonova fan, but she was quite the pirate in her sp. It is so energetic, and Alena is a skater I know like, first season. I hated the LP and found all the frenetic point pulling ugly. I am just saying what I like. I like Zhang's SP and am glad she is keeping it.

    I am just giving my taste in Ladies singles, my favorite discipline. Because the shingles have not gone away, my friends in Cafe know this, I am now following, with you, the JGP. I am limited to performances on the internet. Courcheval was dismal for the ladies, but we have Joshua and Jason on the men's podium. It is a long wait for Nathan Chen to grow up, so I guess these are our next two hopefuls? I am not a big fan of Dornbush, and Armin is OK, but other than Dai and Florent, I like a taller single skater for the beautiful lines (which is getting rare). I have a number of senior men I think are amazing. Javier, Florent, Artur, Hanyu. And the veterans, Evan, Weir, Plush, Joubert, Dai and Chan of course. (He is a veteran as he has been so high on the radar for so long...)

    What do you all think of these two young men? Soon (how soon?) they will be on the senior circuit. As juniors, how good are they, breaking down the aspects they are getting judged on? Is men's skating still in the hands of Lysacek and Weir? No one is talking about these guys the way Gracie was buzzed about as a junior two years ago... Could those who know men's skating comment on these two who landed on the Podium in the first two JGP's. Thanks...y'all have a huge collective knowledge.
    Last edited by skateluvr; 09-03-2012 at 08:16 PM.

  2. #2
    Rinkside
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    21
    Yuzuru Hanyu, Joshua Farris and Jason Brown (if he gets in jumps before Seniors) will knock all the veterans off the podium in Sochi.

  3. #3
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    206
    Speaking about Farris and Brown, I don't think they have much of a chance of getting to Sochi, unfortunately. There's Evan coming back, Weir, Abbott, Rippon -- big competition at Nationals AND their first year in seniors will be the Olympic year, which doesn't give them much time to build up a PCS reputation. Brown still doesn't have a consistent triple axel and to be competitive he'll need that, and a quad in the short and free program as well. Farris has very good technical content so far but it all depends on how his transition to seniors goes, if he'll keep his consistency, if he manages to skate very well at Nationals... to even have a chance, he'll need a perfect program on the technical side at least. And we still don't know how many spots the US will have.
    I slightly favour Brown, but I like them both and I think they're both talented. Just, I don't think they have something about them that really stands out. But that might come later in time, with experience, age...

  4. #4
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    5,609
    I think Farris and Brown are both viewed very highly. Brown has the lack of the 3A and quad, but has massive PCS and high level non-jump elements that'll keep him in the conversation (on the junior circuit). Farris just demonstrated that if he was absolutely clean, he could score 160+, which is very impressive.

    Long term? That depends on your optimism. I think Farris and Miner will be the American skaters post-Sochi, though.

  5. #5
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,578
    I had changed it to juniors in general and edits were not there...I guess I need to ask the office, why?

    ETA: Is our junior lady situ as dismal as Courcheval looked? I see 3 US ladies in top 8, and then saw Ashley Cain on youtube. And she was 4th or 5th? A gift from judges? I guess the men have more potential. Gracie is alone it seems in the last two years re junior gals. Karen Chen is a little girl. Do we have any juniors lady to get interested in? Our seniors are all inconsistent except Grace/Ashly and Grace is new to seniors. Wow. Look at Russia, then look at North Ameican juniors. It seems like it will largely be a Japanese/Russian contest for a long time in ladies.

  6. #6
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Kenai, AK
    Posts
    18,654
    thread title is fixed. you can't make the edit yourself, has to be a mod or admin who does it.

  7. #7
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    27,957
    The reason that the original poster cannot change the thread title is that after someone else replies, the thread belongs to everyone, not just the thread-starter. A person might reply to the original topic and then have the rug pulled out from under him, so to speak.

  8. #8
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,578
    OK, thanks MM and Toni. I watched Angela Wang for first time, She's lovely! And looks a lot like Zhang I think. This girl seems to be very talented. What do the viewers think of Hicks, Baga, Lam and the other junior girls on circuit? Do we expect any gal to podium in this series?

  9. #9
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Texas, United States
    Posts
    4,951
    Polina Edmunds and Barbie Long are junior girls to get excited about. They are both very strong technically and capable of 3f-3t and 3lz-3t combos, regularly landing them in competitions, at least this summer. They aren't fully pubertized yet but they aren't little girls either, and from the looks of it, most of their vertical growth is behind them at least, and they both have the lovely long-legged, lean, balanchine-like physique that is desired in ladies figure skating. Leah Keiser, although already a senior on the domestic stage, is only 14 still (will turn 15 in a week's time) and shares these characteristics and could really go places.

    As for the men, I think Farris has huge potential, and Brown for me is still a question mark. He's turning 18 in a few months and he still has yet to attempt a 3a in international competition. In juniors, he's getting by, but in seniors he has no chance until he is at the very least going for a 3a in his SP and 2 in his FS, more likely, he'll need a quad in the FS too, at a minimum. His score at Courchevel was not good, and though his PCS were strong for a junior man early in the season, they weren't really that high (mid-high 6s) that they will keep him afloat on the senior ranks. Plus he's also starting to get edge calls on his lutz and UR calls on some of his other jumps. I don't know if he should dump Kori Ade completely, obviously she has coached him for forever and the two have a special bond, but I really think he needs to add a more technical coach/jump specialist to his coaching team at this point if he's hoping to make it on the senior international level and still struggling with the 3a come Nationals time. Farris, on the other hand, has a strong technical base with which to build from. Apart from the occasional flip edge call, he is very solid technically, his 3a is one of the best among US men already and we saw he is very capable of a nice 3a-3t, and further, the 4t he landed at the last JGP was also beautiful, and the rest of his jumps, though not huge, are light and airy, usually pretty consistently landed and rotated (sometimes the 3lo gives him a bit of trouble), and garner decent +GOE. He is also a very good spinner, accentuated by his long, clean leg lines, pointed toes, good centering, and superior flexibility for a man. Artistically he is coming along, his step sequences are usually lovely and he has a nice spread eagle and falling leaf split as well, and for juniors, his PCS are really good. In the last JGP, his PCS were quite a bit higher than Jason Brown's in Courchevel. Of course, Jason also shares Josh's talent in the spins, flexibility, and artistry department, but the big difference is that Josh has the big jumps and Jason doesn't. Josh's image, IMO, is also more universally appealing than Jason's, whose skating has often been described by some posters as being feminine. Josh on the other hand has a more masculine image on the ice, part of this is due to his classic good looks and tall appearance (I know he's not actually tall, but he looks it on the ice), but his confidence and the way he holds himself, his costumes, haircut, etc. also contribute to this. The next quadrennial more likely will be his time to shine, but Worlds this year and the Olympics in Sochi are possible for Farris, although I will say likely a bit of a long shot. Jason I think has no hope to go to Worlds or the Olympics this year or next, but again, the next quadrennial when he's had more time to hopefully get a consistent 3a and a quad, he could potentially be an international heavy hitter. Josh shouldn't feel to threatened by Rippon, Miner, Mahbanoozadeh, Dornbush, etc. because as far as I'm concerned, right now, even as a 17 year old who's still competing on the JGP, he's as good if not better than all of those guys. Does the USFS agree with me...maybe not, but the proof is in the international scores. Last season Farris's SB was nearly identical to Rippon and Miner and way better than Dornbush and Mahbanoozadeh, and the same actually is pretty true of his PCS scores alone. Reputation and lack of senior experience might hurt him, but from an objective standpoint, Josh should have decent odds of making it to Worlds this year and Sochi the next. Evan, Johnny, and Jeremy however are a different story...we'll have to see how they are holding up btwn now and Sochi to have a better idea.

  10. #10
    Tripping on the Podium
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    62
    I agree that Jason and Joshua are the ones to watch in the junior ranks. It is true that Jason needs the 3A and a quad but he is so impressive in person. I saw him in his senior national debut in 2011 and not knowing much about him was totally captivated by his performance. The you tube videos do not begin to demonstrate his greatness on the ice. His high PCS scores are well deserved due to his edges, fluidity, and musical interpretation. I haven't been moved by a skater like that since Michelle. I hope he continues to grow and gain the technical elements he needs.

  11. #11
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Greater Boston, MA
    Posts
    782
    Quote Originally Posted by babyskate View Post
    I agree that Jason and Joshua are the ones to watch in the junior ranks. It is true that Jason needs the 3A and a quad but he is so impressive in person. I saw him in his senior national debut in 2011 and not knowing much about him was totally captivated by his performance. The you tube videos do not begin to demonstrate his greatness on the ice. His high PCS scores are well deserved due to his edges, fluidity, and musical interpretation. I haven't been moved by a skater like that since Michelle. I hope he continues to grow and gain the technical elements he needs.
    I know very little about the junior scene. However, having seen Jason on TV at last year's senior Nationals, I was blown away by him. His basic skating skills are among the best I've seen, and he already has great interpretive and performance ability as well. I am a huge fan after only seeing him once or twice! I agree, though, he desperately needs the 3A and quad at this point. Actually, what he needs is to have just one of those jumps very solid, and the other at least somewhat reliable. (Remember, Chan has achieved incredible success with only a solid quad in his arsenal; his 3A is STILL not fully dependable even after several years in seniors).

  12. #12
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    6,889
    Quote Originally Posted by eyria View Post
    I know very little about the junior scene. However, having seen Jason on TV at last year's senior Nationals, I was blown away by him. His basic skating skills are among the best I've seen, and he already has great interpretive and performance ability as well. I am a huge fan after only seeing him once or twice! I agree, though, he desperately needs the 3A and quad at this point. Actually, what he needs is to have just one of those jumps very solid, and the other at least somewhat reliable. (Remember, Chan has achieved incredible success with only a solid quad in his arsenal; his 3A is STILL not fully dependable even after several years in seniors).
    If I recall Chan was a Worlds Silver medalist (maybe twice??) with no quad and a questionable /unreliable/splatting 3A.

    Most of the negativity towards Jason comes from "Chanadians" who seem threatened to the point of paranoia by Jasons superior presentation, charisma and musicality.

    Every skater has strengths and weaknesses and it will be interesting and fun to see how Jason developes in the next 3-4 seasons heading towards the 2018 Olympics.

    If Jason were Russian I suspect he would already be with Moskvina being trained to be the next Demetriev (the senior one ).

    My gosh, how I miss GREAT male pairs skaters.

    ETA: A different point but to Silverlake "pubertized"

    It is in the urban dictionary
    Last edited by janetfan; 09-04-2012 at 12:21 PM.

  13. #13
    Currently frozen as a popsicle Chemistry66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Somewhere in the Chemistry Building
    Posts
    1,366
    In terms of ice dance, I think the whole Wheaton Academy bunch is going to be pretty awesome as they gain more experience. Their teams have been doing very well at all the levels of nationals (besides Senior since they haven't really had many senior teams).

  14. #14
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Texas, United States
    Posts
    4,951
    I'm surprised by this talk of Jason, though I haven't seen him skate live, so I don't doubt it is true. Johnny Weir is certainly a fan. To me, jumps aside, Jason is a very talented skater, spinner, and artist but not mindblowing for someone his age (like Hanyu, Chan a few years ago, etc), so this coupled with his currently weak jump arsenal makes me think he doesn't have much of a future on the international stage in this sport SHOULD HE NOT GET THE BIG TRICKS. If he can get the jumps then, for sure, he should be in the mix, but it seems that some people think with a 3a and a quad Jason will be unbeatable and the best US man, and for that I am not so sure. To me, Farris is far ahead of Brown at this point because he has the big tricks (namely 3a and 4t) that Brown lacks and is comparable to Brown in the other aspects of his skating. Sure, Brown's skating is a bit more unique and edgy, but I don't think he's a better spinner than Farris, nor are his skating skills or basics better, and looking at the PCS the two boys have received the last few seasons internationally, the judges seem to think that they are pretty evenly matched in terms of the PCS components, and I would agree. Also, I think if Jason doesn't start trying the big jumps soon, his PCS will begin to let him down and we'll see other skaters, often younger and of lesser quality but stronger in the technical department, surge ahead. We already saw this at the first JGP. Nothing is certain, but the way I see it, Jason Brown could be a factor in the future but he has A LOT of work to do before he gets there, whereas for Farris, if he just continues to build like he has been over the last couple seasons, he should be in the mix once he goes senior. I'm not saying either one is destined for greatness, but I think some Jason ubers are a bit unrealistic because they assume he'll be a world beater once he gets a consistent 3a and quad, ignoring the fact that he doesn't have either of these things and may never have them, and that the rest of his skating, while good, is not so fantastic (at least judging from the scores he receives) that he will be able to contend with the best in the world straight away when and if he ups his tech. Farris has a ways to go artistically and in terms of building more power, but Jason has to do these things as well as add 2 crucial jumps to his arsenal which take a lot of men several years to master. When you think Josh has been jumping 3a since he was 14 and 4t since he was 15 (in practice at least, at Nationals 2011 he was landing 4ts in practice and a bad fall was what caused the initial injury), it just puts into perspective how far behind Brown is considering he's nearly 18 and has never tried either jump in international competition yet.

  15. #15
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Greater Boston, MA
    Posts
    782
    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    I'm surprised by this talk of Jason, though I haven't seen him skate live, so I don't doubt it is true. Johnny Weir is certainly a fan. To me, jumps aside, Jason is a very talented skater, spinner, and artist but not mindblowing for someone his age (like Hanyu, Chan a few years ago, etc), so this coupled with his currently weak jump arsenal makes me think he doesn't have much of a future on the international stage in this sport SHOULD HE NOT GET THE BIG TRICKS. If he can get the jumps then, for sure, he should be in the mix, but it seems that some people think with a 3a and a quad Jason will be unbeatable and the best US man, and for that I am not so sure. To me, Farris is far ahead of Brown at this point because he has the big tricks (namely 3a and 4t) that Brown lacks and is comparable to Brown in the other aspects of his skating.
    I have not seen Josh Farris skate yet (although I'm looking forward to it). So my comments on Jason are simply in support of Jason, not meant to argue that Jason is better than Josh.

    Interesting that Johnny Weir is a fan of Jason. Jason is actually one of the first skaters I've seen who really reminds me of Johnny. There is a simple but beautiful quality of movement that they both share in their skating. It's hard to describe.

Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •