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Thread: How are the US Juniors viewed?

  1. #16
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    Jason Brown's PCs + 3A + Quad = Chanflation and he will be hated by non-Americans just like Chan is hated by non-Canadians Maybe not getting a quad and not dominating may serve Jason Brown.
    Joshua Farri's recent skate and improvement indicate he is far ahead of his pack and is the likely American Figure Skating Crown Prince in 2013 and Sochi. He is ready to meet his peers, the Russian FS Crown Prince Gachinski and Japanese FS Crown Prince Hanyu in Sochi. Who will prevail?

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    Quote Originally Posted by willywonka View Post
    Jason Brown's PCs + 3A + Quad = Chanflation and he will be hated by non-Americans just like Chan is hated by non-Canadians Maybe not getting a quad and not dominating may serve Jason Brown.
    Depends whether he prefers to win medals or to win the love of non-Americans.

    Best case, he gets the jumps, wins sometimes and loses sometimes, and puts it all together when it matters most.

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    I think the closest example to Jason Brown right now is Shawn Sawyer. 3A buggaboo, but lots that many liked. Except that Shawn Sawyer survived predominantly because Canada managed the fluky combination of keeping three spots while not having an especially broad field. And even then, Shawn only qualified for two worlds (2006 and 2011, though he didn't go the the latter). When you've got the men the USA has bringing the arsenal they are, you've gotta be leery of him being massively successful without a secure 3A or 4T.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    I think the closest example to Jason Brown right now is Shawn Sawyer. 3A buggaboo, but lots that many liked. Except that Shawn Sawyer survived predominantly because Canada managed the fluky combination of keeping three spots while not having an especially broad field. And even then, Shawn only qualified for two worlds (2006 and 2011, though he didn't go the the latter). When you've got the men the USA has bringing the arsenal they are, you've gotta be leery of him being massively successful without a secure 3A or 4T.
    ITA and couldn't have said it better myself. This is why for me Jason is still a question mark at this point. Farris is a question mark too, but at least he's shown evidence that he can land, and execute really nicely, the jumps he'll need to be competitive. Plus I hate to bring it up because it really shouldn't matter but we all know it does, but recently Farris has transformed from an awkward shy boy into a strikingly handsome (at least from my point of view) and seemingly very confident young man and I think this will only help him in terms of gaining the support of fans and judges, ala Joubert.

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    Quote Originally Posted by willywonka View Post
    Jason Brown's PCs + 3A + Quad = Chanflation and he will be hated by non-Americans just like Chan is hated by non-Canadians Maybe not getting a quad and not dominating may serve Jason Brown.
    Joshua Farri's recent skate and improvement indicate he is far ahead of his pack and is the likely American Figure Skating Crown Prince in 2013 and Sochi. He is ready to meet his peers, the Russian FS Crown Prince Gachinski and Japanese FS Crown Prince Hanyu in Sochi. Who will prevail?
    Before Farris can be crowned the American Figure Skating Prince, he will have to finish higher than 16th at US Nationals...something he has yet to accomplish. With regard to Farris being ready to meet his peers, Farris' sore of 218 at the recent JGP event, is well off of the 251 that Hanyu scored at the WC last year.

    That being said, Farris has shown a lot of improvement and, if he stays healthy, will be one of the top skaters in the USA in the future.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFan66 View Post
    Before Farris can be crowned the American Figure Skating Prince, he will have to finish higher than 16th at US Nationals...something he has yet to accomplish. With regard to Farris being ready to meet his peers, Farris' sore of 218 at the recent JGP event, is well off of the 251 that Hanyu scored at the WC last year.

    That being said, Farris has shown a lot of improvement and, if he stays healthy, will be one of the top skaters in the USA in the future.
    I think that posters claims were meant to be taken with a grain of salt . As for Farris and the scores, IF he does become the next American prince, it will be in the future, because Evan the current American prince is back for the meantime as is diva Johnny Weir. They will likely suck the air out of the arena up through Sochi and maybe then we will see what happens, giving Brown and Farris and whoever else is in consideration ample time to up their technical content and scoring potential. Plus once a skater gains recognition and puts out some consistently good performances internationally, his scores, particularly the PCS scores, seem to increase drastically, at least that is the general trend. Fernandez, Brezina, Kozuka, and Amodio are examples of this, and if you can do the big jumps this shift just happens faster. Also, Hanyu's score at the WCs was a huge improvement over his GP scores, his score at the final was pretty high, but in his 2 individual events, the numbers were more comparable with Farris' number from Lake Placid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    If I recall Chan was a Worlds Silver medalist (maybe twice??) with no quad and a questionable /unreliable/splatting 3A.

    Most of the negativity towards Jason comes from "Chanadians" who seem threatened to the point of paranoia by Jasons superior presentation, charisma and musicality.
    It's so funny to read this. What makes you think that Brown will be any threat is beyond me.

    When Chan won the World's silver, the gold medalist either had no quad or fell on a quad. That was then. This is now. With the quad value's raising, over a dozen top skaters own it steadily and use it regularly in competitions. "superior presentation, charisma and musicality" can do only that much, not more.

    I think Farris will be USA's future. He is technically very strong and artistically sufficient. I'd call Farris a "complete" skater.

    As of Jason, he is no doubt wonderful artistically beyond his age. But...
    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 09-05-2012 at 03:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    It's so funny to read this. What makes you think that Brown will be any threat is beyond me.

    When Chan won the World's silver, the gold medalist either had no quad or fell on a quad. That was then. This is now. With the quad value's raising, over a dozen top skaters own it steadily and use it regularly in competitions. "superior presentation, charisma and musicality" can do only that much, not more.

    I think Farris will be USA's future. He is technically very strong and artistically sufficient. I'd call Farris a "complete" skater.

    As of Jason, he is no doubt wonderful artistically beyond his age. But...
    Yes....see your post sort of proves my point. Most quick to put down Jason are Chan ubers.

    You only quoted part of what I wrote and I also said "it will be interesting and fun to see how Jason developes leading towards the 2018 Olympics."

    I think it is way too early to write off Jason. And not every skater needs to win the biggest titles to be well liked by fans.

    Some skaters can win the biggest titles and be disliked by many fans.

  9. #24
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    Some skaters can win the biggest titles and be disliked by many fans.
    Who? The Tsar of Russia? How dare they!

    Who hates Jason Brown? I don’t! I LURVVVV him. He has great PCs. He can beat Yuzuru Hanyu, Joshua Farris, Atur Gachinski, Han Yan without triple axels and quads. Happy everyone?

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    Quote Originally Posted by willywonka View Post
    Who? The Tsar of Russia? How dare they!

    Who hates Jason Brown? I don’t! I LURVVVV him. He has great PCs. He can beat Yuzuru Hanyu, Joshua Farris, Atur Gachinski, Han Yan without triple axels and quads. Happy everyone?
    I was happy .....until I watched Adelina's new LP

    It appears that the Czarina of Russian choreo has lost her mojo......

    I don't care if a skater wins if I can enjoy their skating.

  11. #26
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    The only thing about Chan vs. Brown, though, is that at Brown's age, Chan was at least consistently attempting a 3a in his SP and 2 in his FS. He wasn't consistent with the jump and wasn't doing quads yet, but he was at least going for the 3a, and I will add, when he lands that jump, it's beautiful and garners good +GOEs, that has always been the case. Jason hasn't tried a 3a in international competition yet so we don't know how good his 3a is when landed, if it's rotated, etc. all of which make a big difference. Falling on a fully rotated 3a is very different from falling on a badly UR one or not going for it at all, and having a jump that's inconsistent but big, fully rotated, and well-executed when landed is different than being inconsistent with a jump that's inconsistent but not big or consistently rotated even when landed. Does that make sense? I can't say what Brown's 3a is like as I haven't seen it, but I think Patrick's struggles with the 3a hindered him less than some other men who struggle with it like Shawn Sawyer or Adam Rippon...for the reasons I just mentioned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    The only thing about Chan vs. Brown, though, is that at Brown's age, Chan was at least consistently attempting a 3a in his SP and 2 in his FS. He wasn't consistent with the jump and wasn't doing quads yet, but he was at least going for the 3a, and I will add, when he lands that jump, it's beautiful and garners good +GOEs, that has always been the case. Jason hasn't tried a 3a in international competition yet so we don't know how good his 3a is when landed, if it's rotated, etc. all of which make a big difference. Falling on a fully rotated 3a is very different from falling on a badly UR one or not going for it at all, and having a jump that's inconsistent but big, fully rotated, and well-executed when landed is different than being inconsistent with a jump that's inconsistent but not big or consistently rotated even when landed. Does that make sense? I can't say what Brown's 3a is like as I haven't seen it, but I think Patrick's struggles with the 3a hindered him less than some other men who struggle with it like Shawn Sawyer or Adam Rippon...for the reasons I just mentioned.
    Chan vs Brown is a figment of somebody's imagination.

    Chan is WC and Jason a developing jr skater.

    I remember you used to love Christina Gao. I like her too.
    It doesn't matter to me if Christina never becomes Natl champ - I will still like her.
    Last edited by janetfan; 09-05-2012 at 07:22 PM.

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    Also, I'm hoping Farris can have a big artistic breakthrough in the new few years, sort of like Abbott has done over the past quadrennial (though I hope he doesn't develop Abbott's inconsistency, but that being said, at his age, Jeremy was nowhere near as strong or consistent a skater as Josh). Anyways, Josh has the potential to be really artistic, and he's already a budding artist, showing so real nice moments, but for now, his style is pretty classic and "safe", which is fine for a 17 year old who is still competing on the junior circuit and growing into his body, but I'd like to see him try some really different kinds of programs in the future. I know Transformers wasn't great, but despite his looks and lines, overall style of skating, I think Josh has the capabilities of pulling off programs not in the classical regime convincingly. Of course, branching out takes a lot of confidence and guts, and can be risky, but I think considering he seems to be pretty solid technically at this point, that could be one of his focus points in the near future.

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    Jason is choreographed mostly by Rohene Ward? True or not true? I look at the ponytail and think Rohene. Is this the skater that Jason emulates? I see Weir a bit also in Jason. I recall reading that Rohene could do amazing things but I don't find any evidence on youtube...maybe i did not get beyond the splatfest I watched. I know Rohene was said to do anything in practice, but might have had severe performance anxiety, otherwise he'd be a famous winner. How much of Jason is influenced by Rohene's skating? Slightly OT but are there any videos where Rohene did the amazing things I read he could?

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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Yes....see your post sort of proves my point. Most quick to put down Jason are Chan ubers.

    You only quoted part of what I wrote and I also said "it will be interesting and fun to see how Jason developes leading towards the 2018 Olympics."

    I think it is way too early to write off Jason. And not every skater needs to win the biggest titles to be well liked by fans.
    It didn't prove anything you wanted to prove. Does it ever accur to you that you have provided the easiest target (maybe that was your intention) for anyone to aim? Well, I like it. It was so absurd and so easy to reply.

    The truth hurts sometimes but it is still the truth. No matter what you say or how many names you call, it is still the truth. The same topic has been discussed intensively last year I believe. Jason is wonderful artistically. I've said it numerous times. No one denies his musicality and artistic talent, and no one hates him. How could anyone think that people who are telling the truth hate Jason Brown? Why does "Chan ubers" have to put down Jason Brown? I still cannot make the connection. I did not write off Jason. I could not write off Jason. It's up to him. If Jason brings up his technical level, people, including me, will for sure change their minds. I can assure you this.

    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Some skaters can win the biggest titles and be disliked by many fans.
    It's always been like this that artistic skaters are loved more among skating fans. So I don't understand your meaning of bringing up this?

    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    Plus I hate to bring it up because it really shouldn't matter but we all know it does, but recently Farris has transformed from an awkward shy boy into a strikingly handsome (at least from my point of view) and seemingly very confident young man and I think this will only help him in terms of gaining the support of fans and judges, ala Joubert.
    Farris reminds me of young Jeremy Abbott in appearence far away.
    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 09-06-2012 at 10:25 AM.

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