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Thread: Ice Dance & Carmen

  1. #16
    Custom Title DianaSelene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue dog View Post
    Oddly, I've only seen one Carmen in Pairs:

    Canadians from 88: http://youtu.be/6nJ2-U0D4Ck (the male, Lyndon Johnston, actually invented the Natalia spin, made famous by Michkoutienok and Dmitriev)

    I think Carmen definitely lends itself more to dance, because of the definitive roles. I like the fact that V/M are trying this music, because they won't necessarily have to play two lovers. Carmen is full of "person a loves person b, but person b loves person c who could care less" (Micaela loves Jose, who loves Carmen, who loves Escamillo, who loves himself).
    If you've only seen one Carmen in pairs then you missed out on Gordeeva/Grinkov's Carmen which is really great.

  2. #17
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Gordeeva & Grinkov did Carmen for their 1988 SP at the Olympics (March of the Toreadors) Pairs

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    My favorite, by far. I know in North-America don't like them, but Bestsemionova's passion is unrepeatable.
    Bestemianova is one of the great acting masters of ice dance. I still get gooseflesh when I remember the Rasputin program they did as pro skaters. He played Rasputin, and she played the young Tsarevitch, Alexei. There was one moment when she looked up at him in fright and tried to smile ingratiatingly...I thought, this lady could teach film stars how to convey realistic emotion.

    By and large, I could take B/B's rather avant-garde approach only in small doses, but like Rahkamo/Kokko, they added individuality and innovation to ice dancing (along with purity of technique), and I was very glad they were around. I'm more a romantic (in the sense of the Romantic era of music) by nature, but I also value diversity. I also liked that Natalia wasn't candy-floss pretty--she had such an individual look, glamorous in its own uncompromising way.

    Thanks for linking to the full-length Carmen, Doris. That was a terrific use of ice skating, a program I just loved. I had no cable at the time, and someone had to tape it for me (on videocassette!). It was a grand enterprise by Sandra Bezic and the three leads, Katarina and the two Brians. Would that more productions like that were possible. Just think: the budget for a single episode of the Kardashians' reality show....
    Last edited by Olympia; 09-07-2012 at 05:25 PM.

  4. #19
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    We should stick to dance because then we have to add I think Peterenko and Cohen and Nagasu - oh but you said favourite.

    Bestimianova was the real carmen in 1988. I have no idea what Debi Thomas was doing with the music other than it was powerful. Witt never had the depth or the power to play the real operatic Carmen. And then there was Mirai - she made Debi Thomas look like a real thespian. Mirai's Carmen was outright a crime - she smiled with that fake Miss America smile throughout the routine. She really did not understand who Carmen was and did not have the presence to carry off such a huge character. I will be curious to see what Tessa does - she will have to gain some presence to match Krylova, Navka or Bestimianiova or she will be a watered down version like Witt or worse just skating to music.

  5. #20
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    I don't think Mirai was trying to portray the character Carmen. I think she was just skating to the music.

  6. #21
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    Bestemianova is one of the great acting masters of ice dance. I still get gooseflesh when I remember the Rasputin program they did as pro skaters. He played Rasputin, and she played the young Tsarevitch, Alexei. There was one moment when she looked up at him in fright and tried to smile ingratiatingly...I thought, this lady could teach film stars how to convey realistic emotion.

    By and large, I could take B/B's rather avant-garde approach only in small doses, but like Rahkamo/Kokko, they added individuality and innovation to ice dancing (along with purity of technique), and I was very glad they were around. I'm more a romantic (in the sense of the Romantic era of music) by nature, but I also value diversity. I also liked that Natalia wasn't candy-floss pretty--she had such an individual look, glamorous in its own uncompromising way.
    I agree with you Olympia, and thank you for your great drafting.
    Last edited by plushyfan; 09-09-2012 at 01:00 PM.

  7. #22
    Celebrating the Excellence of #VirtueMoir golden411's Avatar
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    Regarding Virtue/Moir and their Carmen FD, perhaps we will hear more details today (Saturday)??

    Pj Kwong ‏@skatingpj
    @cleoc12 I haven't seen the program - but when I see them tomorrow for an interview will ask them if its ballet or opera...#cbcskates
    6:32 PM - 7 Sep 12

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I don't think Mirai was trying to portray the character Carmen. I think she was just skating to the music.
    I agree but that was the problem. The music did not become one with her.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    I agree with you Olympia, and thank you for your great dreafting.
    I double agree! Natalia was a wonderful actress.

  10. #25
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    I don't mind B/B's Carmen..it was before they went too extreme with their expression.

    When a dancer is on a stage and trying to make their expression reach those seated in the gods, that's one thing..but when most of us see more skating on TV than we do in person , too much expression is not a good thing. The performance can easily turn to parody. I'm afraid "Rasputin", for example,really affected me this way.
    With B&B, I always tried to just appreciate what they were doing with their bodies, and let my eyes slide away when the camera would begin to zero in on her face , as it inevitably would.

    To me, it's like the difference between acting for stage and film. Film requires a much more subtle technique , or the actor will appear to be badly over-acting.

    Too much facial expression ( especially at the end ) took the shine off K/O's Carmen for me too..and it was a terrible let down , because I so loved their skating ( hers, in particular ). I thought then ( as now) that she was exquisitely beautiful, as a woman and a skater , and was for me, perfection for the time. I had been really anticipating her Carmen , and was so sad when I felt they took it over the top.

    Navka doesn't make it at all for me..I'd prefer to see K/O or even B/B any day of the week.

    So the truth is, I've never seen the Carmen I would like to see. I hope V/M will be it , or come much closer to it.
    They have technique, and I'm sure will have difficult choreography , but they have one thing that transcends all other qualities and that is their powerful connection to each other on the ice. They have an emotional oneness that is unmatched..it makes whatever they do real.
    Last edited by colleen o'neill; 09-08-2012 at 02:52 AM.

  11. #26
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    I double agree! Natalia was a wonderful actress.
    Yes, she is an actress. Her husband is Igor Bobrin, maybe you don't know they have a little ice theater in Moscow. Natalia isn't too pretty today.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfVzd...eature=related the end of the show, it was in 2011.
    Last edited by plushyfan; 09-09-2012 at 10:19 AM.

  12. #27
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    Thanks, Plushyfan! Looks like an interesting show.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    My favorite, by far. I know in North-America don't like them, but Bestsemionova's passion is unrepeatable.
    A North American who agrees with you that this Carmen is best! Watching that again I can imagine V&M might actually be able to do something with this music.

    I enjoyed K&O but found too often their movements (and they had some great innovative moves) detracted from the passion one would expect in a great Carmen. B&B excelled in that area. I think my favourite program of K&O is their 1999 Modern Africa Drums as I found it highlighted everything that was special about them.

    Carmen as seen by N&K and L&T was bland, generic and forgettable.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAS View Post
    Carmen as seen by N&K and L&T was bland, generic and forgettable.
    B/B's Carmen was before my time, and I don't really remember K/O's either. (I was never a fan of either team.) I did enjoy N/K's Carmen. However, I agree it fell into the "good, but not great" category.

    It will be interesting to see what V/M do with the music. Normally I don't like it when skaters choose such overused music; however, V/M are such a strong team, they have the potential to take nearly any music and make it their own. I think this could be an interesting new direction for them, a nice step away from their standard romantic/whimsical programs. Looking forward to it.

    So, V/M are doing Carmen and the Shibs are doing Memoirs of a Geisha. What about Meryl & Charlie? Have they announced their long program music yet?

  15. #30
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Not yet. And nothing came out of Champs Camp either.

    Their icenetwork bio says their SD is

    SD Music: "Giselle" by Adolphe Adam

    Their FD is still listed as TBD.

    http://web.icenetwork.com/skaters/de...d=38007&mode=P

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