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Thread: "Masters of Footwork on Ice - Kurt Browning, Scott Hamilton, Paul Wylie"

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    :) aftertherain's Avatar
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    "Masters of Footwork on Ice - Kurt Browning, Scott Hamilton, Paul Wylie"

    Found this little gem when I was browsing through YouTube:

    Kurt Browning, Scott Hamilton, Paul Wylie - Masters of Footwork on Ice
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCapfwISfAU
    Description: From a broadcast of the 1994 Discover Card Stars on Ice show, this clip featured Kurt Browning, Scott Hamilton and Paul Wylie, who are all known for having the mastery of footwork steps and sequences on ice.
    Anyway, after watching this, I had some questions for you all:
    In your opinion, who has the best footwork among amateur skaters and among retired/professional skaters? Also, what constitute as "good" step sequences?
    Last edited by aftertherain; 09-15-2012 at 05:02 PM.

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Scott and Paul, I love you both, but I don't think there will ever be another Kurt Browning.

    As for footwork in competitive programs, Alexei Yagudin's Winter had the most crowd appeal, though the steps were actually not so difficult. Among current competitors Patrick Chan is in a class by himself.

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    Good footwork to me must be musical, use a variety of edges, cover a good portion of the rink at a good pace. It shouldn't involve much in the way of posing, though some is fine. I don't care if it covers a pattern or not, and that's a point of contention for many.

    Of recent men, Patrick Chan and Daisuke Takahashi are easily the best. Next level would be Kozuka and Abbott, imo. I also loved Ponsero's footwork. Of the ladies, Asada, Suzuki and Kostner. Of the pairs, Savchenko/Szolkowy, Takahashi/Tran, and Stolbova/Klimov. Of the dancers, V/M and D/W.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Good footwork to me must be musical, use a variety of edges, cover a good portion of the rink at a good pace. It shouldn't involve much in the way of posing, though some is fine. I don't care if it covers a pattern or not, and that's a point of contention for many.

    Of recent men, Patrick Chan and Daisuke Takahashi are easily the best. Next level would be Kozuka and Abbott, imo. I also loved Ponsero's footwork. Of the ladies, Asada, Suzuki and Kostner. Of the pairs, Savchenko/Szolkowy, Takahashi/Tran, and Stolbova/Klimov. Of the dancers, V/M and D/W.
    Hard to believe it ...but this guy blew Chan right off the ice at '09 Worlds.
    A big part of it was his step sequences ...... which by horrendous CoP standards were first rate. (His spins were also first rate!)

    I may not like the CoP but atleast I don't makeup fairytales about what it rewards.

    Behold...the 2009 CoP World Champion....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WK9ojmYIvt8
    Last edited by janetfan; 09-15-2012 at 06:41 PM.

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Lysacek's second step sequence looked cool because of his long legs.

    Still, Chan scored a total of 9.60 for his two step seqences to Lysacek's 7.80.

    It was the jumps where Lysacek pulled out the victory. Chan did only a 3A+1T and he doubled his triple loop attempt.

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    I agree that even in the exalted company of Wylie and Hamilton, Browning is the undisputed King. And yes, Yagudin belongs way up there on the list. Kulik also did a pretty good job in Stars on Ice after a bit of tutorial from Browning. Nowadays, definitely Takahashi and Chan are the monarchs of footwork among the men. I think Daisuke was the first man (maybe the first person) to have level 4 footwork under the CoP.

    I think that to this day, Yuka Sato may be the queen of ladies' footwork. She's lightning from the ankles down.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aqXFuOjkmM

    (fast-forward past the segment with Goofy skating!)

    Also look here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p7opJu6N2Q


    Michelle did a pretty spectacular job in her 2003 program, Aranjuez.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdLa8HHhqc8


    Asada is also wonderful, as evidenced by her tango exhibition program:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9921LChDlBc

    If we're talking ice dance, we have to at least mention that wonderful step-dancing Riverdance program of Bourne and Kraatz's from 1998 or so.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyzuksE2qNA
    Last edited by Olympia; 09-15-2012 at 07:59 PM.

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    Mathman, Chan outpointed Lysacek in the long, Lysacek outpointed Chan in the short, but overall, on steps, Chan had higher scores.

    Short program:
    Evan Lysacek: 3.9 and 4.3 (8.2)
    Patrick Chan: 3.8 and 4.1 (7.9)

    So in the short program, Lysacek had 0.3 points more from steps than Chan.

    Long Program
    Evan Lysacek: 3.8 and 4.0 (7.8)
    Patrick Chan: 5.3 and 4.3 (9.6)

    In the long program, Chan outpointed Lysacek by 1.8 points

    Overall, Chan outpointed Lysacek by 1.5 points.

    Olympia, I'm pretty sure that Plushenko got level four before Daisuke.

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    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
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    No one comes close to Kurt Browning, who can "out step" many figure skaters while in hockey skates. And thanks Olympia for recalling the fabulously talented Bourne and Kraatz and the ice dance that is the best from Nagano. Much as I did not really like certain Russian skaters of the overwrought nineties, I love how they often would repeat a move three times for emphasis and it would stay in your mind forever. One doesn't see this under Cop much. I gather it doesn't get the points maximized.

    Today, Chan, Takahashi are the masters but Hanyu is coming on very strong. His passionate footwork reminds me of Yagudin, not in style but in 100% effort. I also like Rippon's footwork, and Artur and Javier Fernandez. Surprised no one mentions Florent Amodio who is really amazingly fast. Chan has that smoothness, speed and flow which makes everything look good when he is on. As for the retired men, Stephane Lambiel can do anything, he is a dancer on the ice and Jeffrey Buttle has wonderful footwork and is so creative.

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    Actually, I think Hanyu's footwork is very unappealing. It's when he looks clunkiest.

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    Oh, man, how did I leave Lambiel out? Thanks, Skateluvr.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Lysacek's second step sequence looked cool because of his long legs.

    Still, Chan scored a total of 9.60 for his two step seqences to Lysacek's 7.80.

    It was the jumps where Lysacek pulled out the victory. Chan did only a 3A+1T and he doubled his triple loop attempt.
    The scores support you here but are we assuming tech and particularly PCS are actually scored independently of each other?

    I think Evan's steps highlighted his program and helped his other PCS.
    In fact after '09 Worlds Evan's PCS rose dramatically but his skating looked pretty much the same.

    I think we were seeing part of the old Frank Carroll formula to not change what is working and the Intl judges bought into it very highly as witnessed by the results in Vancouver.

    That's just one of many problems with the CoP....reputation is still the biggest factor by which skaters are scored.

    Part of the topic asked "what constitutes good steps" ?

    I suggest winning the WC, GPF and OGM with programs highlighted by wild and very high energy CoP styled steps is one example of it.
    Last edited by janetfan; 09-16-2012 at 08:44 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    I think Evan's steps highlighted his program and helped his other PCS.
    I think that the freeskate music and choreography helped Evan a lot as the music got faster and faster towards the end. A great way to end an programme!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    In fact after '09 Worlds Evan's PCS rose dramatically but his skating looked pretty much the same.
    Maybe earlier he did not quite get the PCS he deserved?
    Last edited by Jaana; 09-16-2012 at 12:11 PM.

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    For me, the the step sequences queen is Kostner, just look at the one she performed here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrkwoSzY_3k, she got level 4 and +2.20 GOE! And also the one from last season's FS was magnificent, or the one from the 2010-2011 SP... The thing I like about her is her speed while performing so many different steps and turns, she has variety, difficulty and good technical execution! I think she is the lady who received level 4 in the step sequence more times than any other in the world! (Sorry for my poor English here )

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    What do you think about it?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CKoM6U3Cug

    Stojko, Amodio, Joubert, Plushy. very quick feet

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    Wow! Those guys are smoking hot. Marvelous, marvelous skating. Thanks so much for finding that, Plushyfan.

    And it's delightful to see how much fun they're having together.

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