Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 55

Thread: CoC and NHK GP assignments in the light of new developments

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    2,184

    CoC and NHK GP assignments in the light of new developments

    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    JSF will come up with the preliminary decision on 23rd at their council meeting. Currently both sides are not sending their athletes to the countries: China to Japan- their badminton and archery teams, Japan to China- triathlon athletes and a yokozuna (sumo grand champion) Hakuho, who is btw Mongolian by origin/passport and not a Japanese national at all. Besides Team Japan there are two other Japanese who are assigned to CoC: Mirai Nagasu with her double citizenship and Yuko Kawaguchi, the ex J-passport holder. Chinese athletes for NHK Cup are Li, Sui/Han and two dance teams whose names I completely forgot.
    I do hope that things will come down. Otherwise GPF in Sochi will be a stupid farce without top skaters. Russia is not interested in it at all. In the worst case scenario, and considering that ISU won't pay for the event's relocation (unless Putin will do it again ), ISU should reassign skaters as #11/#7 for other GPs. That will be a fair play in this situaton. This ISU keeping quiet is getting annoying.
    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    I hope the Japanese skaters can go to CoC and the Chinese skaters to NHK, as both events will be much better for it. However, if that is not possible, why should they be given new assignments? How is that fair to the skaters in those GPs that will be expanded, who will have to compete against bigger and stronger fields than they would have otherwise? The ISU doesn't give new assignments to skaters who miss events due to medical reasons, or because of visa problems; they don't get to go to the GPF - so why do skaters deserve some sort of compensation because they can't go due to political decisions? And these are political decisions; though it's not their fault, it's not as though it is physically impossible for the skaters to go. 2011 Worlds were postponed and moved because it was not possible to hold an event in Tokyo at that time - for anyone. This is not the same situation, and I don't know that the ISU should enact a new policy because of it.

    The GPF is often missing top skaters who miss events for medical reasons, because they skip the fall season, whatever. Looking at the seeded skaters (top six from Worlds), you have 1 pair, 1 man and 1 lady who are potentially affected, which won't make the GPF a "stupid farce".

    Considering the topic of this discussion is supposed to be Dai, I agree that it would be better to start a thread in The Edge.
    I don't think that "medical reasons" is a fair comparison here.

    Well.

  2. #2
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Left field
    Posts
    3,455
    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    I don't think that "medical reasons" is a fair comparison here.
    Why not? In both cases you have skaters who are unable to compete due to circumstances beyond their control.

  3. #3
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Staring at the ocean and smiling.
    Posts
    17,123
    A better comparison would be to the ISU's moving Worlds last year due to the aftermath of the tsunami.

    The reason given was that the safety of the skaters needed to be considered.

    In fact, moving Cup of China would be a good idea, again for the safety of the skaters.

    Furthermore, USFS should consider whether Mirai Nagasu should skate in China.

  4. #4
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Left field
    Posts
    3,455
    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    A better comparison would be to the ISU's moving Worlds last year due to the aftermath of the tsunami.

    The reason given was that the safety of the skaters needed to be considered.

    In fact, moving Cup of China would be a good idea, again for the safety of the skaters.
    Is there a safety issue for all of the participating skaters? Because that was the concern with 2011 Worlds, and from what I gather that's not the case for CoC - it's not even certain that it would be a problem for the Japanese skaters in two months' time. There have been situations when sporting events in certain countries had to be moved due to safety and security reasons, but I don't recall that being the case when these concerns only applied to some of the participants. This seems more like, say, Georgian athletes running into trouble re competing/training in Russia a while ago, or Israeli tennis players not being able to compete in tournaments in Arab countries (though I believe some exceptions have been made).

    A different possible solution would be to trade assignments between some of the federations , though I don't know how feasible that would be.

  5. #5
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    904
    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    Is there a safety issue for all of the participating skaters? Because that was the concern with 2011 Worlds, and from what I gather that's not the case for CoC - it's not even certain that it would be a problem for the Japanese skaters in two months' time. There have been situations when sporting events in certain countries had to be moved due to safety and security reasons, but I don't recall that being the case when these concerns only applied to some of the participants. This seems more like, say, Georgian athletes running into trouble re competing/training in Russia a while ago, or Israeli tennis players not being able to compete in tournaments in Arab countries (though I believe some exceptions have been made).

    A different possible solution would be to trade assignments between some of the federations , though I don't know how feasible that would be.
    It could be a safety issue not just for the Japanese team, or any skaters of Japanese ancestry, but also the US skaters as well, if tensions escalate. Protestors have damaged the US Ambassador to China's vehicle, and have begun protesting in front of the Embassy there. However, I don't see any reason for any Chinese skaters to pull out of NHK; there are no protest against the Chinese (or anyone else) going on in Japan. Hopefully, everything settles down soon!
    Last edited by chloepoco; 09-19-2012 at 10:45 AM.

  6. #6
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Left field
    Posts
    3,455
    Quote Originally Posted by chloepoco View Post
    It could be a safety issue not just for the Japanese team, or any skaters of Japanese ancestry, but also the US skaters as well, if tensions escalate.
    ...
    Hopefully, everything settles down soon!
    I'm not in China, but from my own experience with the discrepancy between reporting and facts on the ground elsewhere, it just seems like the risk is being blown out of proportion. Athletes and sports teams have competed in hostile conditions before (here's one recent example); local organizers and security forces are usually able to provide proper security for participants and spectators, and should be expected to do so. That's how sporting events work, and I don't know that CoC should be an exception. If the organizers and local police are unable to do so, then by all means, cancel/postpone/move the event. But I find it hard to believe that in China, of all places, it would be so difficult to exert control over protests and security. And I think we should expect a serious assessment of the situation and the risk to athletes before advocating any extreme measures. If the JSF elects to pull out its skaters without such an assessment, then no, I don't see why they should be afforded the sort of consideration other skaters don't get when they must WD from events.

    As for the latter - indeed.

  7. #7
    Rinkside
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by chloepoco View Post
    However, I don't see any reason for any Chinese skaters to pull out of NHK; there are no protest against the Chinese (or anyone else) going on in Japan.
    Chinese skaters will be fine in Japan, but not sure if they will be safe when they get back to China. If the Chinese protestors want to make an example of them then they will be at the mercy of a mob.

  8. #8
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Russia
    Posts
    1,924
    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    This seems more like, say, Georgian athletes running into trouble re competing/training in Russia a while ago
    I know that time ("war 08.08.08") very well. The degree of flame at Internet forums was very high, but nobody wanted to beat Georgians liveing in Russia or so.
    Writer Boris Akunin (real name Grigoriy Chkhvartishvili, Georgian born in Tbilisi) has no problem, at 2009 in Russia was shot film on one of his novels and so on.
    There were no security issues for Georgians.

    BTW, skater Elene Gedevanishvili leaved Russia about 2 years before, at 2006. And she is interesting for us as all known skaters, with no matter to her nation.
    Last edited by AlexRus; 09-19-2012 at 10:34 AM.

  9. #9
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    391
    Is there going to be a problem with sending Chinese skaters to the NHK Trophy, are they safe?

    If so, why not move the 'Cup of China' to 'Japan' for this season. Or wait to see if this blows over in a couple months. It may be a non issue. I would hate to see some of the top skaters in the world not make it into the GPF on a technicality like this. That would be the most unfair thing the ISU has ever done.

  10. #10
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    7,378
    forgive my little ignorance but this is regarding the recent China-Japanese thaw ?
    I think we are exaggerating a bit

    I think by a few weeks this should be settled and should be safe for both sides competing as well as other nationalities
    there are demonstrations but its not like they declared war or anything

  11. #11
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,855
    I don't think it will be settled in a few weeks, tensions may be less but settled I don't think so. Unless you mean both sides will settle down but this looks like it will be ongoing. Things are being cancelled now but maybe not affect figure skating.

  12. #12
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Left field
    Posts
    3,455
    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    I don't think it will be settled in a few weeks, tensions may be less but settled I don't think so. Unless you mean both sides will settle down but this looks like it will be ongoing. Things are being cancelled now but maybe not affect figure skating.
    Quote Originally Posted by l'etoile View Post
    That's the hope. But at this point all things are unclear as to how might things turn out and looking not good. Some international sporting events in China are on the verge of cancellation due to some withdrawals of athletes.
    This is a territorial dispute - there are many of those, involving various countries, and they flare up occasionally. There have been numerous sporting events held over the years in countries where the political and even military situation is not ideal. So far all we've had in China is demonstrations and property damage; unless things escalate, I don't see why this means that sporting events will be unsafe. This isn't on par with what's been happening in Libya or Cairo.

  13. #13
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    3,028
    One thing is natural disaster but another is politics. I am very sad when politics gets in the way of good, fair competition. I am not sure if it is rational though to give those who do not participate due to political and or national tension. Sometimes bad things happen to good people - injuries, death to family members, loss of job etc. and it may affect a competition but despite how you might feel sorry I am not sure it is appropriate to try to make a right by doing a wrong ie. more competitiors at other COP events so other skaters may pay the price literally ie. more people for only so much money. Everyone has different opinons and sadly often opinions or perspectives lead to huge fights sometimes wars. Let the skating children play/ skate. I wish the nations could settle their differences without violence or the threat or suggestion of violence.

  14. #14
    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Yunaverse
    Posts
    1,552
    Things will settle down in a few weeks assuming neither China nor Japan make any more provocative actions. That's the big question--when will one side make another move? If they can hold off until after CoC, I doubt anything serious will come of this recent spat.

  15. #15
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    3,008
    Wow! Looks like this thread could be shoved into Politics folder in Le Café much sooner than I thought.

    If this is a sensitive issue in China, it must be a sensitive issue on an international board where there are a lot of Chinese readers and posters.

    It is in the best interest of both Japan and China to keep the open doors on economic and cultural levels. I don't think Japan doesn't care about losing this biggest market in its neighborhood. In any case, Japan will lose a lot as well if the tension builds up for a long time. I think it'll be quiet down if Japan doesn't touch any more sensitive nerves of China. I agree with Buttercup that it is not another Libya or Cairo. US Embassy and Japan Embassy should be fine.

    It'll be ridiculous to add Japanese skaters into other GP events. It won't happen. I think there are only these possibilities:

    1. CoC proceeds as usual. Japanese skaters attend it. Nothing happens.

    2. CoC proceeds as usual. JSF decides not to let Japanese skaters attend. Japanese skaters lose the chance for GPF.

    3. CoC postponed to a later date.

    4. CoC cancelled and moved to another country.

    5. CoC cancelled but cannot find another host country.
    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 09-20-2012 at 11:23 AM.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •