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Thread: CoC and NHK GP assignments in the light of new developments

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    CoC and NHK GP assignments in the light of new developments

    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    JSF will come up with the preliminary decision on 23rd at their council meeting. Currently both sides are not sending their athletes to the countries: China to Japan- their badminton and archery teams, Japan to China- triathlon athletes and a yokozuna (sumo grand champion) Hakuho, who is btw Mongolian by origin/passport and not a Japanese national at all. Besides Team Japan there are two other Japanese who are assigned to CoC: Mirai Nagasu with her double citizenship and Yuko Kawaguchi, the ex J-passport holder. Chinese athletes for NHK Cup are Li, Sui/Han and two dance teams whose names I completely forgot.
    I do hope that things will come down. Otherwise GPF in Sochi will be a stupid farce without top skaters. Russia is not interested in it at all. In the worst case scenario, and considering that ISU won't pay for the event's relocation (unless Putin will do it again ), ISU should reassign skaters as #11/#7 for other GPs. That will be a fair play in this situaton. This ISU keeping quiet is getting annoying.
    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    I hope the Japanese skaters can go to CoC and the Chinese skaters to NHK, as both events will be much better for it. However, if that is not possible, why should they be given new assignments? How is that fair to the skaters in those GPs that will be expanded, who will have to compete against bigger and stronger fields than they would have otherwise? The ISU doesn't give new assignments to skaters who miss events due to medical reasons, or because of visa problems; they don't get to go to the GPF - so why do skaters deserve some sort of compensation because they can't go due to political decisions? And these are political decisions; though it's not their fault, it's not as though it is physically impossible for the skaters to go. 2011 Worlds were postponed and moved because it was not possible to hold an event in Tokyo at that time - for anyone. This is not the same situation, and I don't know that the ISU should enact a new policy because of it.

    The GPF is often missing top skaters who miss events for medical reasons, because they skip the fall season, whatever. Looking at the seeded skaters (top six from Worlds), you have 1 pair, 1 man and 1 lady who are potentially affected, which won't make the GPF a "stupid farce".

    Considering the topic of this discussion is supposed to be Dai, I agree that it would be better to start a thread in The Edge.
    I don't think that "medical reasons" is a fair comparison here.

    Well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    I don't think that "medical reasons" is a fair comparison here.
    Why not? In both cases you have skaters who are unable to compete due to circumstances beyond their control.

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    A better comparison would be to the ISU's moving Worlds last year due to the aftermath of the tsunami.

    The reason given was that the safety of the skaters needed to be considered.

    In fact, moving Cup of China would be a good idea, again for the safety of the skaters.

    Furthermore, USFS should consider whether Mirai Nagasu should skate in China.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    A better comparison would be to the ISU's moving Worlds last year due to the aftermath of the tsunami.

    The reason given was that the safety of the skaters needed to be considered.

    In fact, moving Cup of China would be a good idea, again for the safety of the skaters.
    Is there a safety issue for all of the participating skaters? Because that was the concern with 2011 Worlds, and from what I gather that's not the case for CoC - it's not even certain that it would be a problem for the Japanese skaters in two months' time. There have been situations when sporting events in certain countries had to be moved due to safety and security reasons, but I don't recall that being the case when these concerns only applied to some of the participants. This seems more like, say, Georgian athletes running into trouble re competing/training in Russia a while ago, or Israeli tennis players not being able to compete in tournaments in Arab countries (though I believe some exceptions have been made).

    A different possible solution would be to trade assignments between some of the federations , though I don't know how feasible that would be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    Is there a safety issue for all of the participating skaters? Because that was the concern with 2011 Worlds, and from what I gather that's not the case for CoC - it's not even certain that it would be a problem for the Japanese skaters in two months' time. There have been situations when sporting events in certain countries had to be moved due to safety and security reasons, but I don't recall that being the case when these concerns only applied to some of the participants. This seems more like, say, Georgian athletes running into trouble re competing/training in Russia a while ago, or Israeli tennis players not being able to compete in tournaments in Arab countries (though I believe some exceptions have been made).

    A different possible solution would be to trade assignments between some of the federations , though I don't know how feasible that would be.
    It could be a safety issue not just for the Japanese team, or any skaters of Japanese ancestry, but also the US skaters as well, if tensions escalate. Protestors have damaged the US Ambassador to China's vehicle, and have begun protesting in front of the Embassy there. However, I don't see any reason for any Chinese skaters to pull out of NHK; there are no protest against the Chinese (or anyone else) going on in Japan. Hopefully, everything settles down soon!
    Last edited by chloepoco; 09-19-2012 at 10:45 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    This seems more like, say, Georgian athletes running into trouble re competing/training in Russia a while ago
    I know that time ("war 08.08.08") very well. The degree of flame at Internet forums was very high, but nobody wanted to beat Georgians liveing in Russia or so.
    Writer Boris Akunin (real name Grigoriy Chkhvartishvili, Georgian born in Tbilisi) has no problem, at 2009 in Russia was shot film on one of his novels and so on.
    There were no security issues for Georgians.

    BTW, skater Elene Gedevanishvili leaved Russia about 2 years before, at 2006. And she is interesting for us as all known skaters, with no matter to her nation.
    Last edited by AlexRus; 09-19-2012 at 10:34 AM.

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    Is there going to be a problem with sending Chinese skaters to the NHK Trophy, are they safe?

    If so, why not move the 'Cup of China' to 'Japan' for this season. Or wait to see if this blows over in a couple months. It may be a non issue. I would hate to see some of the top skaters in the world not make it into the GPF on a technicality like this. That would be the most unfair thing the ISU has ever done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chloepoco View Post
    It could be a safety issue not just for the Japanese team, or any skaters of Japanese ancestry, but also the US skaters as well, if tensions escalate.
    ...
    Hopefully, everything settles down soon!
    I'm not in China, but from my own experience with the discrepancy between reporting and facts on the ground elsewhere, it just seems like the risk is being blown out of proportion. Athletes and sports teams have competed in hostile conditions before (here's one recent example); local organizers and security forces are usually able to provide proper security for participants and spectators, and should be expected to do so. That's how sporting events work, and I don't know that CoC should be an exception. If the organizers and local police are unable to do so, then by all means, cancel/postpone/move the event. But I find it hard to believe that in China, of all places, it would be so difficult to exert control over protests and security. And I think we should expect a serious assessment of the situation and the risk to athletes before advocating any extreme measures. If the JSF elects to pull out its skaters without such an assessment, then no, I don't see why they should be afforded the sort of consideration other skaters don't get when they must WD from events.

    As for the latter - indeed.

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    If the CoC organizers believe that the situation in China is ok for continuing the event as planned, they must have considered carefully on the safety of all its participants. I don't see there should be any reasons in concerning the safety of Japanese skaters. If JSF wants to pull out their skaters, that'll be JSF's decision. The ISU should closely monitor the development there. If it's not ok for CoC to continue, then the event should be cancelled and moved to elsewhere other than in China.
    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 09-19-2012 at 12:51 PM.

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    Cup of China is just 6 weeks away. There really isn't enough time to move the venue elsewhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Cup of China is just 6 weeks away. There really isn't enough time to move the venue elsewhere.
    They moved the World Championships from Tokyo to Moscow in less than a month...

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    Quote Originally Posted by chloepoco View Post
    However, I don't see any reason for any Chinese skaters to pull out of NHK; there are no protest against the Chinese (or anyone else) going on in Japan.
    Chinese skaters will be fine in Japan, but not sure if they will be safe when they get back to China. If the Chinese protestors want to make an example of them then they will be at the mercy of a mob.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FSGMT View Post
    They moved the World Championships from Tokyo to Moscow in less than a month...
    Actually the official announcement was exactly one month before Worlds began in Moscow. But those were extreme circumstances and the event had support up to the highest levels of the Russian government to make the whole thing possible. I doubt that's going to be the case for a mere GP. Who's going to want to host one on so little notice? It's not a marquee event like Worlds, and all the countries that might be able to do it on short notice already have a GP. Not to mention the politics that will be involved in moving it; no way will the ISU do that without very good reason.

    And again - it's impossible to say at this point that CoC will be unsafe for any of the participants. That's hardly on the same level as a possible nuclear disaster and earthquake aftershocks. The Japanese government had no control over that - but does anyone doubt that the Chinese government can control what's happening there if it so decides?
    Last edited by Buttercup; 09-19-2012 at 02:19 PM.

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    It's so sad, but I think, the Japanese skaters and others will be safe. I do not think, that the Chinese people will attack the athletes. In a cold war were so many competitons in the hostile countries.

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    forgive my little ignorance but this is regarding the recent China-Japanese thaw ?
    I think we are exaggerating a bit

    I think by a few weeks this should be settled and should be safe for both sides competing as well as other nationalities
    there are demonstrations but its not like they declared war or anything

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