State of American Ladies: 2012-13 Season | Page 16 | Golden Skate

State of American Ladies: 2012-13 Season

jaylee

Medalist
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
I think if you compare objectively and critically pre-John Nicks skating and post-John Nicks skating for Ashley, I'd say she DESERVES that hike in PCS and GOEs - she's become a much better SKATER and her elements are much more solid.

Ashley is one of those rare skaters who usually adds choreography and transitions to a program as a season goes on, so the hike in GOEs wasn't coincidental.

Compare, for example, her 2011 NHK FS to her 2012 Worlds FS:

NHK: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54Ted4ZSjgE
Worlds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXc8UO8WLTQ

Just a few examples, but in the Worlds FS, she added a spread eagle before the triple loop and she tightened up the series of transitions before the triple salchow. Both of those elements were not there in the NHK performance. Big improvement--she earned the jump in GOEs. And she upped her technical content too, by changing the 2A/2T to a 2A/3T (though it got a UR).
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
After watching CoC, I'm no longer convinced Mirai is in the mix for the second Worlds spot. I'm happy she stayed on her feet in both programs, so that was an improvement from the last event. However I think a lot of her jumps did look UR'ed in real time, and I don't know if she can get them back to the level she had them before. It's disappointing because she had a great chance to medal here with a strong skate.
 

brightphoton

Medalist
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Mirai really got dinged with downgrades and underrotations at Cup of China, and I don't agree with all of them. But she has a few things going well for her: (1) she gets a lot of height on her jumps, especially in the first minute of her programs, (2) she's been skating better under her new coach and already there's shades of 2008 Mirai and (3) she doesn't fall.
 

kalle

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 28, 2003
Mirai really got dinged with downgrades and underrotations at Cup of China, and I don't agree with all of them. But she has a few things going well for her: (1) she gets a lot of height on her jumps, especially in the first minute of her programs, (2) she's been skating better under her new coach and already there's shades of 2008 Mirai and (3) she doesn't fall.

Mirai really got dinged with downgrades and underrotations at Cup of China, and I don't agree with all of them. But she has a few things going well for her: (1) she gets a lot of height on her jumps, especially in the first minute of her programs, (2) she's been skating better under her new coach and already there's shades of 2008 Mirai and (3) she doesn't fall.

For me it is more like shades of her 09/10 season were she got dinged by UR calls during the GP but skated so much better by Nationals.I do not think she will ever be as consistent as Ashley (she has been fantastic so far) but so good to see her motivated and "hungry" to do well!
During her Frank Carroll days I wondered if she would ever try a 3/3 after her WC sp in 2010 but it never happened and I remember Carroll once said something about not to take any risk in competition if the success rate of the jumps are not 80% (or something like that) in practices.
I can see the point but Mirai with her edge calls and UR needs to be "gutsy" which I though she showed us in FT and at the COC..It has not paid off (yet) but hopefully it will later this season.I just wonder though how many more points she would have gotten at the COC if she just did a 2A/2T after the iffy landing on the 2A in her LP?Probably not enough to get up to catch Kiira's score anyway.

The only thing I would change at this point jump wise would be a second 3T instead of a 3F in her LP

In no specific order..

3Z (I would love if she could turn this jump into a 3Z/3T but I guess it does not make much sense if you do not attempt 5 different triples..)
2A/3T
3F
3T/2T
3L/2T/2L
2A
3L

Such a pity she did not get a second GP!
 
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Cherryy

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 27, 2012
I don't get it why Caroline Zhang had such a low score at Skate Canada, especially in the sp. Maybe her transitions and ss aren't the best but she gave a beautiful performance and interpreted the music quite well. I also don't get the goe's on her elements. Just take a look at her flip. It's simply gorgeous (in my opinion), but one judge gave her -3 and four others (!) -2. Can someone explain it to me? Here's the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-p8ERmjfJw&t=1m17s . She had good speed going into the jump, good flow out of it, nice position in the air and she was able to make a nice movement with her hands on landing. Maybe I'm just blind but please tell me what's wrong with that flip :confused:
 

FSGMT

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
I don't get it why Caroline Zhang had such a low score at Skate Canada, especially in the sp. Maybe her transitions and ss aren't the best but she gave a beautiful performance and interpreted the music quite well. I also don't get the goe's on her elements. Just take a look at her flip. It's simply gorgeous (in my opinion), but one judge gave her -3 and four others (!) -2. Can someone explain it to me? Here's the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-p8ERmjfJw&t=1m17s . She had good speed going into the jump, good flow out of it, nice position in the air and she was able to make a nice movement with her hands on landing. Maybe I'm just blind but please tell me what's wrong with that flip :confused:
Yes, I agree that the judges were really harsh with her but: 1) they probably didn't like her right leg position, it's one of the worst among the elite ladies 2) she lost a lot of speed during the jump 3) her edge wasn't really an inside one. But one judge gave her +1, and I think her GOE should have been between 0 and +1. These are the ISU guidelines:
1) unexpected / creative / difficult entry
2) clear recognizable steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element
3) varied position in the air / delay in rotation
4) good height and distance
5) good extension on landing / creative exit
6) good flow from entry to exit including jump combinations / sequences
7) effortless throughout
8) element matched to the musical structure
I think she got the 5, 8 and maybe 7 bullets, so (2 bullets = +1 GOE) she deserved at least 0, but I think the judges decided that her jump met the requirements of "Poor speed, height, distance, air position" and "Break between required steps/movements & jump" and maybe "Unclear edge take-off" that allowed them to give negative GOEs...
 

sequinsgalore

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 12, 2008
^ Yes, she didn't do any preceding steps at all. A couple of skaters got -GOE for otherwise clean jumps at SC.
 
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chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Caroline is S--L--O--W. That kills her Skating Skills score right off the getgo, which pulls down all the other components as well.

Mirai was not impressive in her FS at CoC---her skating has lost the pizazz it had back in 2008. And she hasn't seemingly made any effort to correct her URs. At CoC, she received credit for just one fully rotated triple in the FS: a 3lo. If she doesn't concentrate on getting those jumps all the way around, she will continue to be an also-ran.
 
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drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Caroline is S--L--O--W. That kills her Skating Skills score right off the getgo, which pulls down all the other components as well.

In person you can see much better how slow she really is. Her entry into the 2A is extremely slow, like a junior just learning the jump. I can't really blame her for not improving that because she really had to work so hard to relearn her triples, and they are better now than they have been in years. I think her build (her body shape, not her weight) is also going to hold her back from improving much more.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
A bit of a delay but I finally got to watching Nagasu at COC.

(Videos: Her SP http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LH6gKRmHdy4 and her FS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcvKl437UHc&feature=plcp )

I sort of have to agree with Chuckm that she wasn't all that impressive (at least in the FS). But having said that, this is the best I've seen her do in quite some time. It's too bad about all the URs, though. I only saw one jump that was clearly UR - the others needed a closer look and honestly, this is what I dislike most about the NJS. UR jumps don't even detract much from the overall performance- it's a big source of confusion and frustration with the system.

Is Nagasu on her way back? Depends on if she can get the URs under control...but I noticed something else. Is it just me or do her jumps have a little bit of wrap now? That could be a factor. I guess she's still in the game, but as far as getting on the US world team, probably not unless she makes significant improvement on jumps and/or others completely fall apart.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
For me it is more like shades of her 09/10 season were she got dinged by UR calls during the GP but skated so much better by Nationals.I do not think she will ever be as consistent as Ashley (she has been fantastic so far) but so good to see her motivated and "hungry" to do well!
During her Frank Carroll days I wondered if she would ever try a 3/3 after her WC sp in 2010 but it never happened and I remember Carroll once said something about not to take any risk in competition if the success rate of the jumps are not 80% (or something like that) in practices.
I can see the point but Mirai with her edge calls and UR needs to be "gutsy" which I though she showed us in FT and at the COC..It has not paid off (yet) but hopefully it will later this season.I just wonder though how many more points she would have gotten at the COC if she just did a 2A/2T after the iffy landing on the 2A in her LP?Probably not enough to get up to catch Kiira's score anyway.

The only thing I would change at this point jump wise would be a second 3T instead of a 3F in her LP

In no specific order..

3Z (I would love if she could turn this jump into a 3Z/3T but I guess it does not make much sense if you do not attempt 5 different triples..)
2A/3T
3F
3T/2T
3L/2T/2L
2A
3L

Such a pity she did not get a second GP!

True, Mirai has the potential to be the best - all around type princessy skater. But it is more sad and more of a pity that Katelyn Osmond didn't get a second GP considering she had a shot at going to the GPF.
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
As of now, Wagner still has the highest ladies' score, though there are 3 GP events left to challenge that. I think that if she skates as well at TEB as she did at SA, she'll make the GPF for certain.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
I think things are looking up by the way for the US to re earn their three spots. With Wagner looking good for a world medal maybe even gold and Gracie, Agnes, Caroline, Alissa and Mirai all show huge potential including a possible medal from Mirai and Alissa one would think the US are sitting fairly pretty.
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
I think things are looking up by the way for the US to re earn their three spots. With Wagner looking good for a world medal maybe even gold and Gracie, Agnes, Caroline, Alissa and Mirai all show huge potential including a possible medal from Mirai and Alissa one would think the US are sitting fairly pretty.

I'd include Gracie in that prediction, perhaps with a little bias since she is one of my favorites. Not sure about Mirai (I need to watch more of her to give a legitimate opinion), but will Czisny be fully recovered from her injury in time to fight for that Worlds medal? She only has one GP assignment, which is a shame, but since she just had surgery over the summer I think it's wise to give her leg a rest.
 
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skateluvr

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Am I the only one that thinks Alissa will withdraw from her GP assignment and basically skate her goodbye at Nationals? Whatever she does, it won't be enough to be second to go to worlds. They are not going to hold her up. Flatt is done, so is she.

I wish speed was not something judges are now addicted to. I think Mirai had two lovely programs-she really looked all grown up and beautiful. I look to her to improve and if she can take off that last ten pounds she will rotate a bit easier and have the look the judges want. Caroline is another very short girl who must take off weight to get her 3l3l. I do not think her marks are fair. Slower skaters hold out their moves. Watch Mirai's arms and hands-beautiful detail. Carolina and Chan charge around and have best edges but often lose control. I think it is basic training. MK did not skate with tons of speed -she was often slower than sasha, sarah, tara and for sure Irina. Yet that was "ok' and "artistic"

It seems the intl judges like Ashley and are waiting to see if Gold and Agnes start jumping consistently. They will be rewarded in every category if they show they are consistent podium skaters.

I'd like to know what they do in Japan to turn out these fast, deep kneed skater/jumpers like Dai, Kozuka, Mao, (ok past Mao) and Suzuki. Suzuki and Kozuka should be used as complete skater videos-Dai as well though he is more flashy than Taka who is younger/just developing his style. I saw these deep knees in Yuka who was a pro fave of mine for years. Is there a difference in how they teach basic skating skills at novice level in japan, or before? This allows great speed due to perfect stroking. I do not see this so consistently in USA or Europeans/ Russians. Could a skater explain this? Kanako too seems to fly around thi ice Is is easier to be a sprite like Akiko? Mao can be fast,but I think she wants to be detailed-many nuances in her new LP to make it balletic, and thus speed is not so important in some parts of her LP. I love the pacing. But I admit Akiko can do it all and can surpass Mao in most ways, tho she does not get the credit she deserves. Case in point-Skate Canada ;(.

Those deep knees... How are they trained? Beautiful stroking...
 
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Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
A bit of a delay but I finally got to watching Nagasu at COC.

(Videos: Her SP http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LH6gKRmHdy4 and her FS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcvKl437UHc&feature=plcp )

I sort of have to agree with Chuckm that she wasn't all that impressive (at least in the FS). But having said that, this is the best I've seen her do in quite some time. It's too bad about all the URs, though. I only saw one jump that was clearly UR - the others needed a closer look and honestly, this is what I dislike most about the NJS. UR jumps don't even detract much from the overall performance- it's a big source of confusion and frustration with the system.

Is Nagasu on her way back? Depends on if she can get the URs under control...but I noticed something else. Is it just me or do her jumps have a little bit of wrap now? That could be a factor. I guess she's still in the game, but as far as getting on the US world team, probably not unless she makes significant improvement on jumps and/or others completely fall apart.

Actually, I've noticed the wrap as well. It's not at the level of Yukari Nakano's but it's noticeable. I think the wrap actually clouds the landings, hence all the URs.

I agree Mirai's effort was the best than I've seen in a long time, but I still feel she's still too focused on completing the program and not really performing it. But perhaps, it's best to just have clean programs and perhaps she can build it from there.
 
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skateluvr

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
ITA RD IJS is nitpicking and only Yuna seems to rotate them well as she has speed, huge ice coverage-hangtime-she is like very few women-majorly athletic freeskater. I think they have to rethink what different jump completions earn and make deductions for slight urs very tiny. People can't see these slo mo decisions and if it does not detract from the whole it is nitpicking to many looking at the whole performance from an enjoyment fan perspective.

I liked Mirai very much! A good year for this lovely lady!
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Am I the only one that thinks Alissa will withdraw from her GP assignment

Nope, I think she's had it as well. (ETA: Or...she might show up, but my expectations will be in the basement)

I know her fans really want her to come back, and it's not totally out of the question (keeping post-2010 surge in mind)- but all those years and a rather serious injury basically mean she's reaching the end of her career. At some point, even if she wants to continue, her body will not be able to take any more of the daily grind.

It would be fitting for Czisny to go out with a good performance at Nationals, but if she happens to do well somehow I think she won't stop there. She strikes me as the type who will push through until the (bitter, nasty) end. I mean, she could easily have WD from worlds but didn't. I think she wants a shot at Sochi 2014.

Whatever she does, USFS- learn from the past and PLEASE don't put her on the '13 world team. Think about it this way: it may even work to her advantage in the end if there's a 3rd spot to fight over for Sochi...
 
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drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
I only saw one jump that was clearly UR - the others needed a closer look and honestly, this is what I dislike most about the NJS. UR jumps don't even detract much from the overall performance- it's a big source of confusion and frustration with the system.

I have to disagree here. UR had gotten out of control for awhile there, with every 13 year old girl doing 3-3s not very well. No it doesn't impact the program when it isn't noticeable but I think it is good to encourage proper technique and reward jumps that are done well. As Mao showed, you can win with several URs so it doesn't exclude someone from skating an otherwise excellent program from having good results. The judges have to draw the line somewhere, and I think up to a 1/4 cheat is fair. The replays are necessary because ladies have gotten very good at landing cheated jumps, but it looks like this next generation of American and Russian teens are jumping cleaner.
 
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