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Thread: State of American Ladies: 2012-13 Season

  1. #16
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    I thought that it is the the skating federation of the country where the GP events takes place who decides who they are going to invite. There are some rules within which they have to choose (seeded skaters - at each of GP event is one from 1-3 place from last worlds and one from 4-6 places, also the priority of skaters according to their past results), but otherwise there is a big space for manoeuvres and tactical selection. For example, if they have strong category of their own skaters (like Japan has ladies and men, Russia has pairs), they can choose tactically and invite weaker skaters; if they have no contender, they can choose the best (to make it better for the audience). I did hear that the seeded skaters can express some preferences, but I am not sure if everyone always get what they wanted. The weaker skaters are glad that they got anything, so they definitely can't choose. The only choice USFSA have is about who they send to skate America, so your suggestion USFSA is racist because Mirai has been to CoC four out of five times, and NHK one out of five is ridiculous. The most likely reason why she was sent to CoC so many times is that Chinese ladies are weak, they have no contender of their own (in ladies), and she skated well in the past so they wanted someone strong there to draw in the audience.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    While Rachael is not popular on figure skating boards, I think that should not be indicative of how the general figure skating public feels about her. On Facebook, she has nearly 7,000 followers and more than 12,000 followers on Twitter.
    but Mirai has more than 8,000 likes on Facebook and more than 18,000 followers on Twitter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    I don't see how Mirai, who Rachael beat at Nationals last season, would somehow garner more ticket sales.
    That's true, Rachael narrowly beat out Mirai at Nationals, but that year, at least Mirai didn't come in last and second to last at her GP events. She even got a silver medal at CoC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    I've heard several times -- including on these boards, even -- that Rachael tends to be great in person.
    I think Mirai tends to be good in person too ...

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSGMT View Post
    [Flatt] barely cracked the 100 points in the TOTAL score?!
    The event in question was Skate St. Moritz (took place 9/15), and here is the results sheet:

    http://www.stmoritzisc.org/SkStm12/I...ml/CAT010.html

    The exact score was 103.93.

    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Why would a Japanese -American skater keep requesting CoC? Why would anyone for that matter?

    Anyone could fairly assume that after finishing 4th at the Olympics and 1st at Worlds in the SP Mirai was potentially America's #1 Lady. And this at the age of 16.

    She was repaid for her efforts by being shipped out...year after year.....

    It's absolutely feels racist IMHO.
    I honestly think that is reaching very far. I do have to wonder, though, why Nagasu wasn't promoted more back around the time of the Olympics. USFS really seemed to have a thing for Flatt back in those days, almost to the point of favoritism. Then again, Nagasu DID had her chance at post-Vancouver Worlds to make her mark and become a world medalist or even champion and couldn't make it happen...

    As recently as last season (even after Tibiagate) they were still using Flatt for promotions, etc.

    I think Mirai tends to be good in person too ...
    I've seen her live twice...the first time (2010 SOI) was a complete disappointment. She had an early mistake and allowed it to suck all the energy out of the program.

    Second time was a few weeks ago at Weiss's show. While she was better, I thought Wagner had more impact. Then again, it's not a fair comparison given Nagasu only did an exhibition.
    Last edited by R.D.; 09-23-2012 at 04:03 PM.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    I thought that it is the the skating federation of the country where the GP events takes place who decides who they are going to invite. There are some rules within which they have to choose (seeded skaters - at each of GP event is one from 1-3 place from last worlds and one from 4-6 places, also the priority of skaters according to their past results), but otherwise there is a big space for manoeuvres and tactical selection. For example, if they have strong category of their own skaters (like Japan has ladies and men, Russia has pairs), they can choose tactically and invite weaker skaters; if they have no contender, they can choose the best (to make it better for the audience). I did hear that the seeded skaters can express some preferences, but I am not sure if everyone always get what they wanted. The weaker skaters are glad that they got anything, so they definitely can't choose. The only choice USFSA have is about who they send to skate America, so your suggestion USFSA is racist because Mirai has been to CoC four out of five times, and NHK one out of five is ridiculous. The most likely reason why she was sent to CoC so many times is that Chinese ladies are weak, they have no contender of their own (in ladies), and she skated well in the past so they wanted someone strong there to draw in the audience.
    Also consider that Mirai is actually popular among Japanese fans, given that she has toured there the last few summers (including for The Ice). So given that a lot of Japanese skating fans are likely able to travel to China for CofC, perhaps the Chinese federation put that into consideration.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    The event in question was Skate St. Moritz (took place 9/15), and here is the results sheet:

    http://www.stmoritzisc.org/SkStm12/I...ml/CAT010.html

    The exact score was 103.93.



    I honestly think that is reaching very far. I do have to wonder, though, why Nagasu wasn't promoted more back around the time of the Olympics. USFS really seemed to have a thing for Flatt back in those days, almost to the point of favoritism. Then again, Nagasu DID had her chance at post-Vancouver Worlds to make her mark and become a world medalist or even champion and couldn't make it happen...

    As recently as last season (even after Tibiagate) they were still using Flatt for promotions, etc.
    So in your opinion, Mirai never wanted SA? And she actively lobbied for CoC?

    Geez, I have a bridge I could sell you RD.....

    BTW - nice job on the American Ladies preview. I enjoyed it and think you got it mostly right.
    Especially nice that you have seen a few of the girls new programs and appreciate the comments on that.

  6. #21
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brightphoton View Post
    but Mirai has more than 8,000 likes on Facebook and more than 18,000 followers on Twitter.



    That's true, Rachael narrowly beat out Mirai at Nationals, but that year, at least Mirai didn't come in last and second to last at her GP events. She even got a silver medal at CoC.



    I think Mirai tends to be good in person too ...
    My main point is that Rachael is still well-regarded in the skating community. It's easy to misconstrue that she is an unpopular skater IN GENERAL ( as opposed to just these skating boards) because I think there is a disproportionate amount of people online who seem to dislike her skating and are much more outspoken about it. This idea that people are going to choose NOT to attend Skate America because Rachael is there instead of any of any other given U.S. Ladies skater is a bit of a stretch in my opinion.
    Last edited by Mrs. P; 09-23-2012 at 04:11 PM.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    Second time was a few weeks ago at Weiss's show. While she was better, I thought Wagner had more impact. Then again, it's not a fair comparison given Nagasu only did an exhibition.
    if anything she should have had more energy/spunk/personality, then.

  8. #23
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    But why does Mirai need to schluck it out to China year after year after year? She went to Skate America -once- and that was after she become the 2008 National champ. and National champ always goes to Skate America. Even after her Olympics debut and her medal at 4CC, she never got to go to SA again. Yes, her career has been middling, but one cannot say Flatt is a superstar and yet she manages to go to Skate America consistently.

    I really cannot believe the SA officials couldn't afford Mirai another spot in all these years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    This idea that people are going to choose NOT to attend Skate America because Rachael is there instead of any of any other given U.S. Ladies skater is a bit of a stretch in my opinion.
    That's not the idea. My idea is that either the same amount of people or more people would attend Skate America if Mirai were competing there.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    So in your opinion, Mirai never wanted SA? And she actively lobbied for CoC?
    Janetfan, I don't know. None of us do and it's virtually impossible to have any idea about the situation from the limited POV of a skatefan.

    And so my opinion is this: it's pointless to speculate about it.

    (Thanks for the compliment BTW. I wanted to give a comprehensive preview from my POV, and hope that eventually we can get back to that topic. )

  10. #25
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    I think if a country has a top seeded skater, s/he will definitely headline the GP event at home. With non seeded skaters, sometimes spots are given to those not invited by other GP hosts.

  11. #26
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    To put a different spin, (just for the sake of discussion)

    Mirai may like Cup of China for the same reason Bobrova & Soloviev seem to like it: China's 3 ladies (and 3 ice dancers) are no competition. A lady or ice dancer wanting to medal and/or make GPF, would prefer it to SA, CoR, NHK. The events with a shallow ladies field for the host fed are CoC, TEB, and Skate Canada. So there's a pattern beginning to show. The Chinese men are on the weaker side in many years, too.

    Plus Mirai still has relatives in Japan. While it is a long side trip from China to Japan, it's a lot shorter than California to Japan, so she can achieve two goals with one move.

    http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00010220.htm

    Her bio

    2008 NHK & Skate America
    2009 CoC & Skate Canada
    2010 CoC & TEB
    2011 TEB & Skate Canada
    2012 CoC


    This year, Rachael placed ahead of Mirai at US Nationals, so it's not surprising she got the extra SA berth, given that China invited Mirai for free (presumably, having been there twice, she has fans there). USFS would prefer to have as many seniors with the qualifying TES scores.

    Interestingly, Evan Lysacek, another of Frank Carroll's former skaters, while forced to do Skate America after being US Champion, had CoC as his second event in 2007 & 2009, and I wonder whether this was a Frank Carroll "strategery".
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 09-23-2012 at 04:30 PM.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by brightphoton View Post

    That's not the idea. My idea is that either the same amount of people or more people would attend Skate America if Mirai were competing there.
    Perhaps that may be the case based on your assertions -- but I'm not sure that would be enough for USFSA to pull someone out involuntarily.

  13. #28
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    Thanks for the preview, R.D. - I really enjoyed it. I can't believe the senior season is nearly upon us, wow. It will be very interesting to see how all of the ladies do, so here's a big shout out to all the senior gals!

    that said, I'm particularly impressed with the reviews of Wagner's SP thus far and am really excited to see it for myself. Also, for me, Rachel and Caroline were such joys to watch at Nationals, and I believe Rachel is keeping her LP, no? I do hope so and I do hope she gets her jumping legs back. Regardless, I just would love to seem them both skate well and feel happy about where they are in that process.

    Mirai is such a talent - i do hope the new coaching situation brings out the best in her. I would love to see Agnes wow us with a great short and long too. Can't wait to see what Gold brings this year (if for no other reason than I love her name - oh yeah, she skates pretty good too). And my figures are crossed for Alissa. If I missed someone key- didn't mean too...just excited to read the preview and looking forward to READING about the GPs as sadly, looks like we won't have much to watch in the US :(

  14. #29
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    I agree RD, it's a great comprehensive look at the season! Thanks for your thoughts.

    It sounds like Ashley Wagner is off to a good start -- Doug Mattis, a well-known figure in the FS community, tweeted the following:

    ** Just watched @AshWagner2010 skate a STUNNING SP at Paramount in LA. Major improvement. Watch out Worlds!!
    ** @YukiNieve Ashley was in a class by herself--functionally and metaphorically!

    This would certainly jive with RD's positive assertion of her SP from the Weiss show.

  15. #30
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    if anything she should have had more energy/spunk/personality, then.
    I saw much of it all through a camera lens (was taking photos) but Wagner was in pure attack mode. I was actually feeling goosebumps through portions of the program. Nagasu gave a nice performance in the end but there was no WOW factor to it, partially because it was an exhibition.

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