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Thread: State of American Ladies: 2012-13 Season

  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    I think if you compare objectively and critically pre-John Nicks skating and post-John Nicks skating for Ashley, I'd say she DESERVES that hike in PCS and GOEs - she's become a much better SKATER and her elements are much more solid.
    Ashley is one of those rare skaters who usually adds choreography and transitions to a program as a season goes on, so the hike in GOEs wasn't coincidental.

    Compare, for example, her 2011 NHK FS to her 2012 Worlds FS:

    NHK: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54Ted4ZSjgE
    Worlds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXc8UO8WLTQ

    Just a few examples, but in the Worlds FS, she added a spread eagle before the triple loop and she tightened up the series of transitions before the triple salchow. Both of those elements were not there in the NHK performance. Big improvement--she earned the jump in GOEs. And she upped her technical content too, by changing the 2A/2T to a 2A/3T (though it got a UR).

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    After watching CoC, I'm no longer convinced Mirai is in the mix for the second Worlds spot. I'm happy she stayed on her feet in both programs, so that was an improvement from the last event. However I think a lot of her jumps did look UR'ed in real time, and I don't know if she can get them back to the level she had them before. It's disappointing because she had a great chance to medal here with a strong skate.

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    Mirai really got dinged with downgrades and underrotations at Cup of China, and I don't agree with all of them. But she has a few things going well for her: (1) she gets a lot of height on her jumps, especially in the first minute of her programs, (2) she's been skating better under her new coach and already there's shades of 2008 Mirai and (3) she doesn't fall.

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by brightphoton View Post
    Mirai really got dinged with downgrades and underrotations at Cup of China, and I don't agree with all of them. But she has a few things going well for her: (1) she gets a lot of height on her jumps, especially in the first minute of her programs, (2) she's been skating better under her new coach and already there's shades of 2008 Mirai and (3) she doesn't fall.
    Quote Originally Posted by brightphoton View Post
    Mirai really got dinged with downgrades and underrotations at Cup of China, and I don't agree with all of them. But she has a few things going well for her: (1) she gets a lot of height on her jumps, especially in the first minute of her programs, (2) she's been skating better under her new coach and already there's shades of 2008 Mirai and (3) she doesn't fall.
    For me it is more like shades of her 09/10 season were she got dinged by UR calls during the GP but skated so much better by Nationals.I do not think she will ever be as consistent as Ashley (she has been fantastic so far) but so good to see her motivated and "hungry" to do well!
    During her Frank Carroll days I wondered if she would ever try a 3/3 after her WC sp in 2010 but it never happened and I remember Carroll once said something about not to take any risk in competition if the success rate of the jumps are not 80% (or something like that) in practices.
    I can see the point but Mirai with her edge calls and UR needs to be "gutsy" which I though she showed us in FT and at the COC..It has not paid off (yet) but hopefully it will later this season.I just wonder though how many more points she would have gotten at the COC if she just did a 2A/2T after the iffy landing on the 2A in her LP?Probably not enough to get up to catch Kiira's score anyway.

    The only thing I would change at this point jump wise would be a second 3T instead of a 3F in her LP

    In no specific order..

    3Z (I would love if she could turn this jump into a 3Z/3T but I guess it does not make much sense if you do not attempt 5 different triples..)
    2A/3T
    3F
    3T/2T
    3L/2T/2L
    2A
    3L

    Such a pity she did not get a second GP!
    Last edited by kalle; 11-04-2012 at 05:02 AM.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalle View Post
    Such a pity she did not get a second GP!
    At least she did Finlandia, so she got 2 international assignments. A second GP wouldn't have mattered because she won't make the GPF.

  6. #306
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    I don't get it why Caroline Zhang had such a low score at Skate Canada, especially in the sp. Maybe her transitions and ss aren't the best but she gave a beautiful performance and interpreted the music quite well. I also don't get the goe's on her elements. Just take a look at her flip. It's simply gorgeous (in my opinion), but one judge gave her -3 and four others (!) -2. Can someone explain it to me? Here's the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-p8ERmjfJw&t=1m17s . She had good speed going into the jump, good flow out of it, nice position in the air and she was able to make a nice movement with her hands on landing. Maybe I'm just blind but please tell me what's wrong with that flip

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherryy View Post
    I don't get it why Caroline Zhang had such a low score at Skate Canada, especially in the sp. Maybe her transitions and ss aren't the best but she gave a beautiful performance and interpreted the music quite well. I also don't get the goe's on her elements. Just take a look at her flip. It's simply gorgeous (in my opinion), but one judge gave her -3 and four others (!) -2. Can someone explain it to me? Here's the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-p8ERmjfJw&t=1m17s . She had good speed going into the jump, good flow out of it, nice position in the air and she was able to make a nice movement with her hands on landing. Maybe I'm just blind but please tell me what's wrong with that flip
    Yes, I agree that the judges were really harsh with her but: 1) they probably didn't like her right leg position, it's one of the worst among the elite ladies 2) she lost a lot of speed during the jump 3) her edge wasn't really an inside one. But one judge gave her +1, and I think her GOE should have been between 0 and +1. These are the ISU guidelines:
    1) unexpected / creative / difficult entry
    2) clear recognizable steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element
    3) varied position in the air / delay in rotation
    4) good height and distance
    5) good extension on landing / creative exit
    6) good flow from entry to exit including jump combinations / sequences
    7) effortless throughout
    8) element matched to the musical structure
    I think she got the 5, 8 and maybe 7 bullets, so (2 bullets = +1 GOE) she deserved at least 0, but I think the judges decided that her jump met the requirements of "Poor speed, height, distance, air position" and "Break between required steps/movements & jump" and maybe "Unclear edge take-off" that allowed them to give negative GOEs...

  8. #308
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    ^ Yes, she didn't do any preceding steps at all. A couple of skaters got -GOE for otherwise clean jumps at SC.
    Last edited by sequinsgalore; 11-04-2012 at 02:10 PM.

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    Caroline is S--L--O--W. That kills her Skating Skills score right off the getgo, which pulls down all the other components as well.

    Mirai was not impressive in her FS at CoC---her skating has lost the pizazz it had back in 2008. And she hasn't seemingly made any effort to correct her URs. At CoC, she received credit for just one fully rotated triple in the FS: a 3lo. If she doesn't concentrate on getting those jumps all the way around, she will continue to be an also-ran.
    Last edited by chuckm; 11-04-2012 at 11:08 AM.

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Caroline is S--L--O--W. That kills her Skating Skills score right off the getgo, which pulls down all the other components as well.
    In person you can see much better how slow she really is. Her entry into the 2A is extremely slow, like a junior just learning the jump. I can't really blame her for not improving that because she really had to work so hard to relearn her triples, and they are better now than they have been in years. I think her build (her body shape, not her weight) is also going to hold her back from improving much more.

  11. #311
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    A bit of a delay but I finally got to watching Nagasu at COC.

    (Videos: Her SP http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=LH6gKRmHdy4 and her FS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcvKl437UHc&feature=plcp )

    I sort of have to agree with Chuckm that she wasn't all that impressive (at least in the FS). But having said that, this is the best I've seen her do in quite some time. It's too bad about all the URs, though. I only saw one jump that was clearly UR - the others needed a closer look and honestly, this is what I dislike most about the NJS. UR jumps don't even detract much from the overall performance- it's a big source of confusion and frustration with the system.

    Is Nagasu on her way back? Depends on if she can get the URs under control...but I noticed something else. Is it just me or do her jumps have a little bit of wrap now? That could be a factor. I guess she's still in the game, but as far as getting on the US world team, probably not unless she makes significant improvement on jumps and/or others completely fall apart.

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalle View Post
    For me it is more like shades of her 09/10 season were she got dinged by UR calls during the GP but skated so much better by Nationals.I do not think she will ever be as consistent as Ashley (she has been fantastic so far) but so good to see her motivated and "hungry" to do well!
    During her Frank Carroll days I wondered if she would ever try a 3/3 after her WC sp in 2010 but it never happened and I remember Carroll once said something about not to take any risk in competition if the success rate of the jumps are not 80% (or something like that) in practices.
    I can see the point but Mirai with her edge calls and UR needs to be "gutsy" which I though she showed us in FT and at the COC..It has not paid off (yet) but hopefully it will later this season.I just wonder though how many more points she would have gotten at the COC if she just did a 2A/2T after the iffy landing on the 2A in her LP?Probably not enough to get up to catch Kiira's score anyway.

    The only thing I would change at this point jump wise would be a second 3T instead of a 3F in her LP

    In no specific order..

    3Z (I would love if she could turn this jump into a 3Z/3T but I guess it does not make much sense if you do not attempt 5 different triples..)
    2A/3T
    3F
    3T/2T
    3L/2T/2L
    2A
    3L

    Such a pity she did not get a second GP!
    True, Mirai has the potential to be the best - all around type princessy skater. But it is more sad and more of a pity that Katelyn Osmond didn't get a second GP considering she had a shot at going to the GPF.

  13. #313
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    As of now, Wagner still has the highest ladies' score, though there are 3 GP events left to challenge that. I think that if she skates as well at TEB as she did at SA, she'll make the GPF for certain.

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    I think things are looking up by the way for the US to re earn their three spots. With Wagner looking good for a world medal maybe even gold and Gracie, Agnes, Caroline, Alissa and Mirai all show huge potential including a possible medal from Mirai and Alissa one would think the US are sitting fairly pretty.

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    I think things are looking up by the way for the US to re earn their three spots. With Wagner looking good for a world medal maybe even gold and Gracie, Agnes, Caroline, Alissa and Mirai all show huge potential including a possible medal from Mirai and Alissa one would think the US are sitting fairly pretty.
    I'd include Gracie in that prediction, perhaps with a little bias since she is one of my favorites. Not sure about Mirai (I need to watch more of her to give a legitimate opinion), but will Czisny be fully recovered from her injury in time to fight for that Worlds medal? She only has one GP assignment, which is a shame, but since she just had surgery over the summer I think it's wise to give her leg a rest.
    Last edited by ForeverFish; 11-04-2012 at 11:28 PM.

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