State of American Ladies: 2012-13 Season

[skateluvr]

Am I the only one that thinks Alissa will withdraw from her GP assignment and basically skate her goodbye at Nationals? Whatever she does, it won't be enough to be second to go to worlds. They are not going to hold her up. Flatt is done, so is she.

I wish speed was not something judges are now addicted to. I think Mirai had two lovely programs-she really looked all grown up and beautiful. I look to her to improve and if she can take off that last ten pounds she will rotate a bit easier and have the look the judges want. Caroline is another very short girl who must take off weight to get her 3l3l. I do not think her marks are fair. Slower skaters hold out their moves. Watch Mirai's arms and hands-beautiful detail. Carolina and Chan charge around and have best edges but often lose control. I think it is basic training. MK did not skate with tons of speed -she was often slower than sasha, sarah, tara and for sure Irina. Yet that was "ok' and "artistic"

It seems the intl judges like Ashley and are waiting to see if Gold and Agnes start jumping consistently. They will be rewarded in every category if they show they are consistent podium skaters.

I'd like to know what they do in Japan to turn out these fast, deep kneed skater/jumpers like Dai, Kozuka, Mao, (ok past Mao) and Suzuki. Suzuki and Kozuka should be used as complete skater videos-Dai as well though he is more flashy than Taka who is younger/just developing his style. I saw these deep knees in Yuka who was a pro fave of mine for years. Is there a difference in how they teach basic skating skills at novice level in japan, or before? This allows great speed due to perfect stroking. I do not see this so consistently in USA or Europeans/ Russians. Could a skater explain this? Kanako too seems to fly around thi ice Is is easier to be a sprite like Akiko? Mao can be fast,but I think she wants to be detailed-many nuances in her new LP to make it balletic, and thus speed is not so important in some parts of her LP. I love the pacing. But I admit Akiko can do it all and can surpass Mao in most ways, tho she does not get the credit she deserves. Case in point-Skate Canada ;(.

Those deep knees... How are they trained? Beautiful stroking...

[Mrs. P]

A bit of a delay but I finally got to watching Nagasu at COC.

(Videos: Her SP http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=LH6gKRmHdy4 and her FS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcvKl437UHc&feature=plcp )

I sort of have to agree with Chuckm that she wasn't all that impressive (at least in the FS). But having said that, this is the best I've seen her do in quite some time. It's too bad about all the URs, though. I only saw one jump that was clearly UR - the others needed a closer look and honestly, this is what I dislike most about the NJS. UR jumps don't even detract much from the overall performance- it's a big source of confusion and frustration with the system.

Is Nagasu on her way back? Depends on if she can get the URs under control...but I noticed something else. Is it just me or do her jumps have a little bit of wrap now? That could be a factor. I guess she's still in the game, but as far as getting on the US world team, probably not unless she makes significant improvement on jumps and/or others completely fall apart.

Actually, I've noticed the wrap as well. It's not at the level of Yukari Nakano's but it's noticeable. I think the wrap actually clouds the landings, hence all the URs.

I agree Mirai's effort was the best than I've seen in a long time, but I still feel she's still too focused on completing the program and not really performing it. But perhaps, it's best to just have clean programs and perhaps she can build it from there.

[skateluvr]

ITA RD IJS is nitpicking and only Yuna seems to rotate them well as she has speed, huge ice coverage-hangtime-she is like very few women-majorly athletic freeskater. I think they have to rethink what different jump completions earn and make deductions for slight urs very tiny. People can't see these slo mo decisions and if it does not detract from the whole it is nitpicking to many looking at the whole performance from an enjoyment fan perspective.

I liked Mirai very much! A good year for this lovely lady!

[R.D.]

Am I the only one that thinks Alissa will withdraw from her GP assignment

Nope, I think she's had it as well. (ETA: Or...she might show up, but my expectations will be in the basement)

I know her fans really want her to come back, and it's not totally out of the question (keeping post-2010 surge in mind)- but all those years and a rather serious injury basically mean she's reaching the end of her career. At some point, even if she wants to continue, her body will not be able to take any more of the daily grind.

It would be fitting for Czisny to go out with a good performance at Nationals, but if she happens to do well somehow I think she won't stop there. She strikes me as the type who will push through until the (bitter, nasty) end. I mean, she could easily have WD from worlds but didn't. I think she wants a shot at Sochi 2014.

Whatever she does, USFS- learn from the past and PLEASE don't put her on the '13 world team. Think about it this way: it may even work to her advantage in the end if there's a 3rd spot to fight over for Sochi...

[drivingmissdaisy]

I only saw one jump that was clearly UR - the others needed a closer look and honestly, this is what I dislike most about the NJS. UR jumps don't even detract much from the overall performance- it's a big source of confusion and frustration with the system.

I have to disagree here. UR had gotten out of control for awhile there, with every 13 year old girl doing 3-3s not very well. No it doesn't impact the program when it isn't noticeable but I think it is good to encourage proper technique and reward jumps that are done well. As Mao showed, you can win with several URs so it doesn't exclude someone from skating an otherwise excellent program from having good results. The judges have to draw the line somewhere, and I think up to a 1/4 cheat is fair. The replays are necessary because ladies have gotten very good at landing cheated jumps, but it looks like this next generation of American and Russian teens are jumping cleaner.

[drivingmissdaisy]

ITA RD IJS is nitpicking and only Yuna seems to rotate them well as she has speed, huge ice coverage-hangtime-she is like very few women-majorly athletic freeskater.

Add Adelina to that list. She has huge jumps and great technique also.

[eyria]

A bit of a delay but I finally got to watching Nagasu at COC.

I sort of have to agree with Chuckm that she wasn't all that impressive (at least in the FS). But having said that, this is the best I've seen her do in quite some time. It's too bad about all the URs, though. I only saw one jump that was clearly UR - the others needed a closer look and honestly, this is what I dislike most about the NJS. UR jumps don't even detract much from the overall performance- it's a big source of confusion and frustration with the system.

Is Nagasu on her way back? Depends on if she can get the URs under control...but I noticed something else. Is it just me or do her jumps have a little bit of wrap now? That could be a factor. I guess she's still in the game, but as far as getting on the US world team, probably not unless she makes significant improvement on jumps and/or others completely fall apart.

I just watched Mirai's Cup of China LP last night . . . disappointing. She stayed upright through the program. But that was the best you could say about it. The performance level and spark were missing, as noted by Tonia Kwiatkowski on UniversalSports, and there were so many URs. Her speed was better but still not where it should be. The whole program was just so generic, so flat.

I've held out hope for Mirai for so long, but time is running out. This year is critical, and it's passing her by already, without any notable success. There's a lot of parity and so many contenders now on the ladies' side; Mirai needed to do well this season internationally just to keep her name in the ring.

Unless she can improve significantly by Nationals, and I don't really expect that to happen, I think she should probably consider retirement after this season. At this point, skating is probably a net financial loss for her family; I can't imagine she's earned much money at all the last couple seasons. And if the Olympics aren't realistic, it's a genuine question whether it's worth continuing. I think Caroline Zhang, Rachael Flatt, and Alissa Czisny are all facing the same question.

[R.D.]

I have to disagree here. UR had gotten out of control for awhile there, with every 13 year old girl doing 3-3s not very well. No it doesn't impact the program when it isn't noticeable but I think it is good to encourage proper technique and reward jumps that are done well. As Mao showed, you can win with several URs so it doesn't exclude someone from skating an otherwise excellent program from having good results. The judges have to draw the line somewhere, and I think up to a 1/4 cheat is fair. The replays are necessary because ladies have gotten very good at landing cheated jumps, but it looks like this next generation of American and Russian teens are jumping cleaner.

Not to turn this thread into a debate about the system but this is touching on another thing: TV (in the US at least) needs to do a MUCH better job explaining and analyzing these things so that viewers are not so confused about a result. For NBC, that means a new broadcast team (no more Hamilton/Bezic, they're 6.0 folks), a new approach (more analysis, perhaps at the expense of fluff/backstage footage?), and perhaps more graphics (something like the jump checklist ESPN used at one point).

[drivingmissdaisy]

I think Caroline Zhang, Rachael Flatt, and Alissa Czisny are all facing the same question.

I think Alissa, and to a lesser extent Mirai, could do the show/pro circuit. Alissa does everything amazingly well besides the jumps. Mirai can sell an upbeat number like her SP and she could do well with programs like that.

[R.D.]

I just watched Mirai's Cup of China LP last night . . . disappointing. She stayed upright through the program. But that was the best you could say about it. The performance level and spark were missing, as noted by Tonia Kwiatkowski on UniversalSports, and there were so many URs. Her speed was better but still not where it should be. The whole program was just so generic, so flat.

I've held out hope for Mirai for so long, but time is running out. This year is critical, and it's passing her by already, without any notable success. There's a lot of parity and so many contenders now on the ladies' side; Mirai needed to do well this season internationally just to keep her name in the ring.

Her FS last season was flat too. The last time I ever saw her truly enjoy herself was at the Vancouver Games.

However, I would stop well short of saying she should consider retirement. You have to remember, she's only 19 at this point. Even if she misses 2014, 2018 would not be out of the question if she wanted to keep going. The only thing that could stop her is a career-ending injury, which may or may not happen.

Thankfully there might be other skaters who may rise to the occasion, so we may not really NEED a prime Nagasu like we did in the past. The ones sticking by her now seem to be mainly her true fans.

Personally, I still won't count her out, but from what I saw at COC, it really depends on if she can clean up those URs. But that wrap on her jumps can't be helping things. I'd probably have her as a Wild Card at this point.

[eyria]

However, I would stop well short of saying she should consider retirement. You have to remember, she's only 19 at this point. Even if she misses 2014, 2018 would not be out of the question if she wanted to keep going.

You make a good point here. 19 is very young to retire, especially these days.

But if Mirai's going to continue, she needs to rediscover that excitement and joy she had in Vancouver, otherwise it doesn't seem worth it, she's just slogging through. I wonder if taking a year off might help.

[FlattFan]

Add Adelina to that list. She has huge jumps and great technique also.

Adelina has huge jumps but problematic landings. That is not good technique. She has no flow out of her jumps. If you want perfect technique, look at Kostner's.

[bigsisjiejie]

Am I the only one that thinks Alissa will withdraw from her GP assignment and basically skate her goodbye at Nationals? Whatever she does, it won't be enough to be second to go to worlds. They are not going to hold her up. Flatt is done, so is she.

No, you're not the only one.

[drivingmissdaisy]

But if Mirai's going to continue, she needs to rediscover that excitement and joy she had in Vancouver, otherwise it doesn't seem worth it, she's just slogging through. I wonder if taking a year off might help.

If she misses 2014, that means she will have gone 6 years without winning a national championship (assuming she doesn't win this year) and 4 years without making Worlds (if she doesn't win silver this year). I don't think that's a recipe for extending a career beyond 2014.

[silverlake22]

If she misses 2014, that means she will have gone 6 years without winning a national championship (assuming she doesn't win this year) and 4 years without making Worlds (if she doesn't win silver this year). I don't think that's a recipe for extending a career beyond 2014.

Well Alissa continued despite being a favorite to make both the 2006 and 2010 Olympic teams and missing them, only winning her first National title in 2009, and not making it to Worlds for the first time in 2007, then not again until 2009. So if she was inspired to continue all these years there's no saying Mirai couldn't do the same.