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Thread: State of American Ladies: 2012-13 Season

  1. #751
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I am pretty sure the USFSA must send the national champion, no matter what.
    Indeed they do which is why they would make certain that Czisny does not win Nationals in a year Olympic spots are on the line at Worlds. Not that this would be difficult unless she skated a blinder and everyone else fell 3 times.

  2. #752
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    Czisny improves her chances of going to the Olympics if she doesn't skate at the 2013 Worlds.

  3. #753
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    I posed this question on another forum, but I guess we're on that topic here so it's a good time to move it over:

    Suppose Czisny surprises everyone at Nationals and places 2nd. If you, as the poster, are USFS, what do you do?

    a) Send her to worlds

    b) Send her & 3rd place finisher to 4CC, with higher finisher getting the spot

    c) Send her to 4CC, but not to worlds

    d) Don't send her anywhere

    ______________

  4. #754
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    I posed this question on another forum, but I guess we're on that topic here so it's a good time to move it over:

    Suppose Czisny surprises everyone at Nationals and places 2nd. If you, as the poster, are USFS, what do you do?

    a) Send her to worlds

    b) Send her & 3rd place finisher to 4CC, with higher finisher getting the spot

    c) Send her to 4CC, but not to worlds

    d) Don't send her anywhere

    ______________
    Option B - Not just for Czisny, but Four Continents (with an international panel) should be used to decide who else besides the National Champion goes to Worlds.

  5. #755
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    To me, there are two competing ideas about how to select the U.S. team for Worlds.

    1. It is the responsibility of the USFSA to send the strongest team.

    2. It is the responsibility of the skater to earn the assignment.

    Top down or bottom up? The power and authority of the establishment or the rights and opportunities of the individual?

    Historically, the USFSA has taken the second viewpoint, and furthermore has interpreted "earning the assignment" as "earning the assignment at Nationals." There have been signs of a shift in thinking at the USFSA -- or maybe just on Internet forums. The worst possibility (pangtiongfan suggests this above) is that the USFSA gives lip service to #2 while pressuring the judges to arrange a pre-determined #1.

    There is no guarantee that anyone will skate well or badly at Worlds. I would send the top two finishers at Nationals to Worlds (thus defying the Devil who is trying to tempt me to sell my soul for three spots at the Olympics).

    Edited to add: Option (b) would be the most dramatic departure with tradition. The U.S. world team has always been announced before Four Continents. Indeed, historically the top U.S. skaters have skipped Four Continents altogether in order to prepare for Worlds and to give other skaters a chance for exposure to international competition. (Not so much recently, though.)

  6. #756
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruin714 View Post
    Option B - Not just for Czisny, but Four Continents (with an international panel) should be used to decide who else besides the National Champion goes to Worlds.
    Like what Canada did with phaneuf and Lacoste last year...

  7. #757
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I am pretty sure the USFSA must send the national champion, no matter what. Here is the rule (IRC6.04A):
    Whoops, my bad. Thanks for clearing that up. I was under the assumption that, while tradition calls for the national champion to be sent, it's ultimately the USFSA's decision. In that case, then, I'm thinking they will ascertain that either Wagner or Gold take the top spot. Those two are going to Worlds no matter what.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    I posed this question on another forum, but I guess we're on that topic here so it's a good time to move it over:

    Suppose Czisny surprises everyone at Nationals and places 2nd. If you, as the poster, are USFS, what do you do?

    a) Send her to worlds

    b) Send her & 3rd place finisher to 4CC, with higher finisher getting the spot

    c) Send her to 4CC, but not to worlds

    d) Don't send her anywhere

    ______________
    B, the popular opinion. Czisny was well enough to skate in NBC's Skating & Gymnastics Spectacular, but then again, those flashy, pretty shows aren't exactly indicators of preparedness for a competition like Nats.

  9. #759
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    My take:

    Option B would be the fairest method IMO. It would give Czisny a chance to prove that the good showing was no fluke, and the 3rd place finisher another shot (particularly if this skater had a decent GP season).

    But I would go with C. It would be perfectly justifiable IMHO after the mess of 2009 and the total embarrassment that was last year. Olympic spots are on the line and no chances can be taken with someone as unreliable and hot/cold as Czisny (I'm thinking of the Katy Perry song, ha).

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    I agree with the premise of your argument, R.D., but who on the US women's team have we seen to be truly consistent this season? Only Wagner, and if you consider her mistakes at the GPF, even she's out of the running.

    I'm 100% with you on keeping Czisny from the Worlds team until she proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that she's ready. After being AWOL for half of a season, I very much doubt that the USFSA will want to take the chance, even if she has a spectacular showing at Nats and surpasses Gold, Nagasu, and Zawadzki.

  11. #761
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverFish View Post
    I agree with the premise of your argument, R.D., but who on the US women's team have we seen to be truly consistent this season? Only Wagner, and if you consider her mistakes at the GPF, even she's out of the running.
    Well, it depends on how you are going to define "consistent". If you are using the word to mean "perfect all the time", then no, no one has been consistent.
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    I would not send Czisny to worlds at all, actually. 4CC is fine.

    She has blown one too many chances IMHO.

  12. #762
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    Well, it depends on how you are going to define "consistent". If you are using the word to mean "perfect all the time", then no, no one has been consistent.
    ________________

    I would not send Czisny to worlds at all, actually. 4CC is fine.

    She has blown one too many chances IMHO.
    Certainly not--I only expect my skaters to be perfect most of the time.

    In all seriousness, though, I think of last season's Julia Lipnitskaia as a good example of consistency. No falls, no major errors.

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    well, the team is named before 4 continents, isn't it? So how could there be a skate off?


    Currently, as hard as it might be to believe, Alisssa actually has a higher iso world standing than any other American lady, INCLUDING WAGNER. Even on the ice network rankings, she is in the top ten in the world and outranks every american lady except Wagner.
    Last edited by Icey; 12-16-2012 at 07:22 PM.

  14. #764
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    well, the team is named before 4 continents, isn't it? So how could there be a skate off?


    Currently, as hard as it might be to believe, Alisssa actually has a higher iso world standing than any other American lady, INCLUDING WAGNER. Even on the ice network rankings, she is in the top ten in the world and outranks every american lady except Wagner.
    Caroline Zhang was the highest ranked American skater for several years until about 2 years ago. "Rankings" can be deceiving.

    R.D., interesting question. I would go with option d). It's time to give some of the other skaters some international experience.

  15. #765
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    I would not send Czisny to worlds at all, actually.
    It's that "send" thing that always bothers me. All skaters should have an equal right and opportunity to compete for a spot on the Worlds team. The USFSA should be in the business of providing opportunities to compete, not in the "sending" business. (IMHO )

    That said, I think this conversation is of academic interest only. I don't think Czisny will compete at Nationals.

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