Page 9 of 77 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 59 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 135 of 1147

Thread: State of American Ladies: 2012-13 Season

  1. #121
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    3,008
    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    As to Agnes, Christina and Gracie getting two GP's ahead of Mirai - it seems bizarre to me. Nothing they have ever shown can match Mirai's best.

    Potential is one thing - but laying down some great skates is something different. Mirai has done it - and hoping someday Agnes, Christina and Gracie will do it too.
    I believe now it's 2012-13 season. Mirai's best has happened more than 2 and a half years ago. Do any Federations consider a history of that long ago when it comes to invite skaters? Should they?

    I can't imagine USFSA and all other federations rally against Mirai Nagasu.
    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 10-03-2012 at 11:22 AM.

  2. #122
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    The land of Agent Dale Cooper
    Posts
    8,381
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    I believe now it's 2012-13 season. Mirai's best was happened more than 2 and a half years ago. Do any Federations consider a history of that long ago when it comes to invite skaters? Should they?

    I can't imagine USFSA or any federations rally against Mirai Nagasu.
    In the SP, her best was at 2010 Worlds with 70.40. In the LP it 129.68 at 2011 4CC. Overall it was 190.15 at the 2010 Olympics. Just wanted to put it out there for the record.

  3. #123
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    6,889
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    I believe now it's 2012-13 season. Mirai's best was happened more than 2 and a half years ago. Do any Federations consider a history of that long ago when it comes to invite skaters? Should they?

    I can't imagine USFSA or any federations rally against Mirai Nagasu.
    As [FONT=Arial Black]mathman[/FONT] pointed out it feels hard to believe no one wanted Mirai but CoC.
    And that includes Skate America too.

    Is anybody suggesting it would take an impossible level of politicking by US Skating to get Mirai two GP's this season

    Here is another pretty darned good LP from Mirai the following season, good enough to medal at 4CC.

    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBmzq9aGBR0[/url]

    I could show few SP's but Mirai is undoubtably a proven world class SP skater.

    I am curious - if you think Mirai only deserves one GP this season - what are your reasons?

    Have Agnes and Christina had better Intl resulst than Mirai?
    Has Gracie skated clean once in her last 3-4 events?
    Last edited by janetfan; 10-03-2012 at 09:53 AM.

  4. #124
    Custom Title FSGMT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    2,835
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    I believe now it's 2012-13 season. Mirai's best was happened more than 2 and a half years ago. Do any Federations consider a history of that long ago when it comes to invite skaters? Should they?
    You're right in saying that she's not in that kind of condition anymore, but this wasn't two years ago:
    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HGYZYnxy6s&list=FLwuapGNmIOJTL7LLDvfzySw& index=10&feature=plpp_video[/url]
    nor this:
    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipgJhXxhSVc[/url]
    She had a lot of ups and downs in her career (last year's Nationals was a "down" example), but I think that this summer at Glacier Falls she showed that she is regaining a good shape... Anyway, it's up to her in showing everyone what she's capable of, winning a medal at nationals and going to 4CC or Worlds!

  5. #125
    Down With It
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    13,543
    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    As to Agnes, Christina and Gracie getting two GP's ahead of Mirai - it seems bizarre to me. Nothing they have ever shown can match Mirai's best.
    But that happened almost three years ago. We have not seen that same skater since.

  6. #126
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    The land of Agent Dale Cooper
    Posts
    8,381
    Hey, what's more unjust is that Mirai has no fan thread on GS!

    Seriously though, I think we're beating a dead horse here. What I see here said so far:

    1.) She has a lot of talent and when she skates clean (see 2011 COC, 2011 4CC, 2010 Worlds SP) judges score her well.
    2.) But the results she has received in her career doesn't quite match that talent.
    3.) For whatever reason, she doesn't have 2 GPs. A lot of people are guessing a lot of reasons including that 1.) She didn't want a second or 2.) The USFSA has completely dropped her for the likes of Agnes and Gracie. The fact is we don't really know.

    I think we are going to have to agree to disagree. Some people have divergent views on this matter and there's a lot of other things to talk about regarding the U.S. Ladies.

  7. #127
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    3,008
    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    In the SP, her best was at 2010 Worlds with 70.40. In the LP it 129.68 at 2011 4CC. Overall it was 190.15 at the 2010 Olympics. Just wanted to put it out there for the record.
    Thanks for the record! But we all know that the numbers in different competitions don't mean much. She skated well in that LP but certainly not extraordinary. Many of these ladies' skatings could match or beat that skate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Hey, what's more unjust is that Mirai has no fan thread on GS!
    By all means, make one then. I'm just wondering why anyone cry about it for any skaters but don't make them themselves?
    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 10-03-2012 at 10:17 AM.

  8. #128
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    6,889
    Quote Originally Posted by FSGMT View Post
    You're right in saying that she's not in that kind of condition anymore, but this wasn't two years ago:
    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HGYZYnxy6s&list=FLwuapGNmIOJTL7LLDvfzySw& index=10&feature=plpp_video[/url]
    nor this:
    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipgJhXxhSVc[/url]
    She had a lot of ups and downs in her career (last year's Nationals was a "down" example), but I think that this summer at Glacier Falls she showed that she is regaining a good shape... Anyway, it's up to her in showing everyone what she's capable of, winning a medal at nationals and going to 4CC or Worlds!
    I think Carolina is a good example of what I am getting at here.

    She has as much talent as any of the Ladies. In fact I would say more than most. Could she have won more medals in her career? Maybe - but the point is that Carolina at her best is an awesome skater.

    I think Mirai at her best is awfully good. In the days when US Skating was loaded with talented Ladies like Michelle, Sasha and Sarah (btw, I could give many other examples from different eras) it was a different story.

    Lots of skaters here have their fans.....but that does not mean they have the talent to compete on a given day against the world's best skaters.

    Like I said before, picking the Natl team is different and I like that it is results oriented and based on Natls.

    The GP and other events is where I like to see a level playing field. As it stands, Mirai has no chance to compete on equal footing in the GP with other US Skaters.

    That is the part I don't get and don't see it as very fair.

  9. #129
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    The land of Agent Dale Cooper
    Posts
    8,381
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    By all means, make one then. I'm just wondering why anyone cry about it for any skaters but don't make them themselves?
    Done: [url]http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?38037-Mirai-Nagasu&p=663174#post663174[/url]

    For the record, I was just being funny and using humor to express my surprise she doesn't have one given all the clear fandom here!

  10. #130
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    3,008
    Quote Originally Posted by FSGMT View Post
    Anyway, it's up to her in showing everyone what she's capable of, winning a medal at nationals and going to 4CC or Worlds!
    That's basically what I'm saying. No one is up against her. It's up to her to show it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Done: [url]http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?38037-Mirai-Nagasu&p=663174#post663174[/url]

    For the record, I was just being funny and using humor to express my surprise she doesn't have one given all the clear fandom here!
    Thanks! I have nothing against Mirai Nagasu. I'm just pissed off with somebodies who always make conspiracy theories.
    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 10-03-2012 at 10:23 AM.

  11. #131
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    6,889
    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Done: [url]http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?38037-Mirai-Nagasu&p=663174#post663174[/url]

    For the record, I was just being funny and using humor to express my surprise she doesn't have one given all the clear fandom here!
    Fan threads are cool (zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ).

    I prefer discussions about Mirai and most other skaters I like on the "real board" where they can be actually discussed - pro and con.

    ETA: Since the Brit EuroSport announcers are so highly respected at GS it is interesting to here them call Mirai's LP from Vancouver.

    My oh my, I haven't heard so much "code talk" in ages. [SIZE=1]It was almost like listening a Republican stump speech[/SIZE].

    Listen to them and they are clearly saying Mirai was underscored in a very major way.

    No big deal......that's just figure skating - always and forever - half sport and half pageant - with a healthy dose of soap opera thrown in..
    Last edited by janetfan; 10-03-2012 at 11:33 AM.

  12. #132
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    3,196
    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Sorry that sounds like a Gracie fan post.
    When Gracie was not good enough to get out of sectionals Mirai was already a Natl champion.

    Mirai had no pressure at the Olympics? How in the world can you make such a careless and uninformed remark?

    Do you know Mirai personally? Do you know what Frank's feelings and expectations were? Of course you do not!

    In case you slept through the Ladies skating at Vancouver, the final group laid down the best skating in Olympic history.

    Mirai only had to follow perhaps the most emotional skate from Joannie in Olympic history. That's got to easy - nothing to it

    No pressure you say? Do you say that from your own Olympic skating experience

    Geez, I can't believe what you just wrote.
    Sheesh! You seem awfully protective and obviously very sensitive about this to read this so literally. Clearly you are a Mirai fan and will defend her to the death no matter what and I am problem wasting my time even writing this...

    I can only speak for what I can see as an outsider to the situation and from how the climate appeared around fan boards and within the skating community at the time and on understanding how to prepare for competition. I guess your competitive skating experience helps you in understanding this.

    First: I was pointing out the fact that USFS worked it out so that Mirai does not have to do Regionals but Gracie does. I think it points to the fact USFS is trying NOT to screw Mirai over. If Gracie is "the next big thing", you'd think they would have worked out something so SHE doesn't have to do Regionals but instead she's headed to Green Bay next week. I am comparing and contrasting between the situation of two skaters who do not earn an automatic bye to Nationals by placing in the top 5 in Seniors but are considered (at least by fans and probably by TPTB) contenders for the podium and World team spots.

    Second: By "no pressure" at the Olympics, I meant (and it was fairly obvious to others what my intent was) there was no pressure for a specific finish. No one expected her to podium. There was no external pressure on her from fans/USFS/family/Frank for an Olympic medal because even her best was highly unlikely to net that there with Yuna, Mao, and Joannie (and Carolina and Miki who both stunk up the place but had been considered medal contenders before the event). She could skate with only her own expectation of being clean/making a statement there.

    Once she actually finished first in the SP (at the subsequent Worlds), those expectations SEEMED to get the better of her and she skated a mistake filled LP in an event full of average/meh/bleh/ick programs where one less mistake would have netted her a medal. Since that moment, she has seemingly let the expectations get the better of her at every event that there were EXTERNAL expectations for results (Nationals 2X, Skate Canada last year where she had talked in advance of making a statement and being a "new Mirai" and so on) and has skated fairly well at events where the external expectations have diminished due to poor results at a previous competition (CofC last year after a 5th place, 4CC the year before after a "disappointing" 3rd place Nationals finish).

    Basically, it seems as if her mental preparation changes between events with outcome focus (events where people expect she's going to win/podium) and those with goal focus. If she hasn't yet, she should really consider work with a sports psychologist who understands mental sports to determine the best mental preparations for competing going forward or at least help get herself more consistent in preparation. I recall Evan Lysacek talking about his work with a sports psych and that the year he won Nationals with the 4T in his FS he had "I skate clean programs" written on his hand and he kept repeating that to himself throughout the warm up, when he was announced, and then as he took his starting position.

    ETA: I believe JSF and USFS have something worked out concerning Mirai and NHK and Alissa's spot and that is why Mirai currently only has 1 event. Who really believes Alissa will be ready to skate by NHK after the injury/surgery she just had and the fact that she was JUST getting back on the ice (stroking only, no jumps, no spins) the week after Champs Camp? I suspect she will withdraw right before the event and Mirai will be the substitute and that this has been the plan all along. As many of you say, why would USFS not politick for as many of their skaters as possible to get as many slots as possible? As I also said, but you didn't rail on, if SA is intended to showcase the US Champion and give her an easy shot at a win/medal, why would you pit Mirai up against the champ? Choose someone you are pretty sure she can beat (Gao, Flatt)...
    Last edited by mskater93; 10-03-2012 at 11:03 AM.

  13. #133
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    3,008
    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    The GP and other events is where I like to see a level playing field. As it stands, Mirai has no chance to compete on equal footing in the GP with other US Skaters.

    That is the part I don't get and don't see it as very fair.
    I can picture that Mirai is giggling while she's reading your post...

    Seriously, how is that a big deal? You don't know the reason. No one knows the reason. Maybe it's just her coach's strategy to give Mirai more time to get back on the top. She was terrible at Nationals last year. I think she should get up from where she fell down.
    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 10-03-2012 at 11:14 AM.

  14. #134
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    6,889
    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    Sheesh! You seem awfully protective and obviously very sensitive about this to read this so literally. Clearly you are a Mirai fan and will defend her to the death no matter what and I am problem wasting my time even writing this...

    I can only speak for what I can see as an outsider to the situation and from how the climate appeared around fan boards and within the skating community at the time and on understanding how to prepare for competition. I guess your competitive skating experience helps you in understanding this.

    First: I was pointing out the fact that USFS worked it out so that Mirai does not have to do Regionals but Gracie does. I think it points to the fact USFS is trying NOT to screw Mirai over. If Gracie is "the next big thing", you'd think they would have worked out something so SHE doesn't have to do Regionals but instead she's headed to Green Bay next week. I am comparing and contrasting between the situation of two skaters who do not earn an automatic bye to Nationals by placing in the top 5 in Seniors but are considered (at least by fans and probably by TPTB) contenders for the podium and World team spots.

    Second: By "no pressure" at the Olympics, I meant (and it was fairly obvious to others what my intent was) there was no pressure for a specific finish. No one expected her to podium. There was no external pressure on her from fans/USFS/family/Frank for an Olympic medal because even her best was highly unlikely to net that there with Yuna, Mao, and Joannie (and Carolina and Miki who both stunk up the place but had been considered medal contenders before the event). She could skate with only her own expectation of being clean/making a statement there.

    Once she actually finished first in the SP (at the subsequent Worlds), those expectations SEEMED to get the better of her and she skated a mistake filled LP in an event full of average/meh/bleh/ick programs where one less mistake would have netted her a medal. Since that moment, she has seemingly let the expectations get the better of her at every event that there were EXTERNAL expectations for results (Nationals 2X, Skate Canada last year where she had talked in advance of making a statement and being a "new Mirai" and so on) and has skated fairly well at events where the external expectations have diminished due to poor results at a previous competition (CofC last year after a 5th place, 4CC the year before after a "disappointing" 3rd place Nationals finish).

    Basically, it seems as if her mental preparation changes between events with outcome expectations (events where people expect she's going to win/podium) and those without outcome expectations. If she hasn't yet, she should really consider work with a sports psychologist who understands mental sports to determine the best mental preparations for competing going forward.
    Thanks -and I appreciate this follow-up explanation.
    Yes, I am a Mirai fan but that doesn't mean I won't consider fair minded comments and criticism about her skating.

    To be honest I enjoy your posts alot and typically find you to be one of the most knowledgeable and fair-minded posters at GS. And that goes for Doris as well.

    But the post I replied to did not seem as fair-minded as what you usually write. Maybe you got me at a bad moment - whatever....

    I did go back to delete my post - but it had already been copied again in a reply. ......so I left it.

    For whatever reasons I have always been drawn to talented skaters that some here describe as "headcases" - a term I find very unattractive.
    I also root for the underdog. Heck, I am even beginning to change my tune about Rachael.......which I admit in the past has been terrible and uncalled for.

    Whatever.....I have no doubts that Mirai is one of the most talented USA skaters. Whether she reaches her potential is of interest to me.
    For that to happen she needs to be treated atleast as well as skaters who have not matched her competitive Intl record.

    Otherwise we are getting really far away from sport.....and into something totally different.

    Anyway, if my reply was unreasonable I apologize.
    Last edited by janetfan; 10-03-2012 at 11:36 AM.

  15. #135
    Trixie Schuba's biggest fan! blue dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    2,094
    OK...I love Mirai, but 7th at nationals with ONE assignment is actually pretty good. Oftentimes, 7th at nationals means NO GP, and maybe a senior B, if you're lucky. Mirai and Alissa have really been gifted. The year after Alissa finished 10th, she was given 2 GP's. But then again, that year, a lot of the girls who are skating in seniors now (Gracie, Agnes, etc) were juniors. Our field was shallower. Another example-- Caroline was 12th one year and got a GP the next. Joelle Forte was 8th or 9th at Nationals, and was given the TBA at Skate America.

    A lot of strategizing goes into grand prix assignments. Mirai isn't going to Skate America, because Mirai can actually beat Ashley. So can Rachael, but international judges tend to prefer Mirai over Rachael. As someone already said, CoC is always easier. The USFSA is doing this to at least ensure that one American woman makes it to the GPF. At the moment, it's protecting its best chances-- Gracie and Ashley. As much as I love Mirai, she is a bit of a wild card this year.

Page 9 of 77 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 59 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •