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Thread: Did Michelle Kwan kill pro skating?

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by ks777 View Post
    Sarah Hughes had simple spins because her spins were one of the best in the business.
    Nah, only the layback was. The rest were quite ordinary. Her camel spin was often so slow.

  2. #77
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    I actually liked her hair during the short years, especially the first year, when she had the pixie cut.

    As to the differences in skating content during the 6.0 era, wouldn't these ladies have trained differently if CoP had been in effect? Their coaches would certainly have had a different approach. It may be that other skaters would have overtaken them, but I can't imagine that, for instance, Slutskaya would have been left in the dust by someone else. I'm fairly sure that Michelle and Sasha would have done well, but maybe I'm not the one to ask, because I'm such an ardent fan of theirs. But Michelle especially had beautiful skating skills, and those would still be valued today. Maybe her career wouldn't have been as long as it turned out to be, but I think she would have been an outstanding skater in any era.

    As for Oksana, I was never a fan of her technique. I think there were many weaknesses in her jumps, and I wasn't impressed by her posture. I don't know whether those weaknesses were due to ability or to training technique. Certainly Petrenko, who trained with the same coach, had beautiful classical technique.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Nah, only the layback was. The rest were quite ordinary. Her camel spin was often so slow.
    Really? ok so then who do you think has good camel? I thought Sarah, Sasha and Yuka had one of the best camel spins.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ks777 View Post
    Sarah Hughes had simple spins because her spins were one of the best in the business. I am pretty sure if she was forced to do more than simple beautiful spins, she was more than capable of doing them. It's not easy to do those beautiful simple spins. How many people have those beautiful layback and camel spins? Just because they didn't do any complicated spins doesn't mean they couldn't. It's like Michelle doing a catch food spiral.. who would want to see that when you have a beautiful spiral already? Isn't that why some skaters started doing so called "complicated" spins and spirals because they couldn't do the beautifully positioned spins and spirals? Isn't that why Slutsukaya always did catch foot spiral because she couldn't do a beautiful spiral otherwise?

    Mind you if they were all under COP who knows what the 6.0's would have done but that is mere speculation. Michelle did not fare as well under COP though she did just fine. I just hate the fact her amateur career just sort of fizzled out slowly and painfully.

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    Also, part of the reason Michelle didn't do well under CoP was that by that time, she had the injury that curtailed her training time and jumping strength. Surely if she'd been younger and healthier when CoP came in, she would have figured out how to skate for points just as well as anyone else. As many have pointed out, Frank Carroll is especially good at understanding and making use of CoP, and he was her coach for most of her career.

  6. #81
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    Michelle skated only once under CoP judging, 2005 worlds. She got third in the short and third in the long, finishing fourth overall. So we don't have much data to appeal to in deciding how well she might have done in the new system.

    As to slowly fizzling out, it is true that her chronic hip injury eventually claimed its due. Even so, she continued to land on the world podium up until 2005, nine straight times.

    After Michelle retired, figure skating in the U.S. went belly up.

  7. #82
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Ah.... this thread has been bliss. All those links to old Michelle Kwan classics.

    On the camels, I actually always loved Michelle's. She got overshadowed in this respect by the emergence of Sasha Cohen and other flexibility goddesses but Michelle actually had great stretch. Her camel spin looks classic because the line between the top of her head and her toe was perfect. Even when she came out of jumps the stretch of her free leg was lovely ... and of course her change of edge spiral. Not to mention her falling leaf split jump. She wasn't as flexible in her back as others were so it gave her a bit of trouble with the lay back spin but her split leaf jump and her charlotte spiral showed off her flexibily in other ways. She always pointed her toes.

    Peggy constantly said Sasha never hit a bad position and that was true but neither did Michelle.

  8. #83
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    OK, one more, then I'll stop.

    Michelle at fifteen.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1imuQWeIi4Q

    Edited to add: This is the sort of thing I was trying to get at in the original post.

    I don't really think that Michelle Kwan killed professional skating. It's just that when we can watch competitive programs with this kind of performance values, what does pro skating bring to the table that we don't already have right before our eyes?

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by ks777 View Post
    Really? ok so then who do you think has good camel? I thought Sarah, Sasha and Yuka had one of the best camel spins.
    Maria Butyrskaya and Irina Slutskaya both had strong camel spins. Gusmeroli as well. Kwan and Cohen had other spins that were stronger, but their camel spins were still better than Hughes.

  10. #85
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    Its performances like this that got me hooked on skating. I really miss this kind of artistry. Ashley is very good and I wish her all the best, but if she were skating in one rink, and MK was skating in another, I know where I would be.
    Chris looking for tar and feathers for the American judge.
    (ref short hair, MK is way to pretty for short hair....but hey, I am a man...)
    Last edited by CoyoteChris; 11-29-2012 at 10:22 PM.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Maria Butyrskaya and Irina Slutskaya both had strong camel spins. Gusmeroli as well. Kwan and Cohen had other spins that were stronger, but their camel spins were still better than Hughes.
    No, I disagree. Hughes had the perfect position on her camel spins. Hughes had strong sit spins too. I don't know what makes you think she had ordinary spins.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    OK, one more, then I'll stop.

    Michelle at fifteen.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1imuQWeIi4Q

    Edited to add: This is the sort of thing I was trying to get at in the original post.
    Don't feel you need to stop! This is sublime. And the choreography! That footwork is so smooth and nimble. So much of what's done for footwork nowadays looks forced and heavy by comparison. This is a magnificent short program.

  13. #88
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    Romanza-emergence of the delicate chinese beauty that she was. Never prettier-yet such a fighter. She wanted lulu's gold and got it.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Layfan View Post
    Peggy constantly said Sasha never hit a bad position and that was true but neither did Michelle.
    Peggy exaggerated. Sasha hit this unappealing position in many performances
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ha_Cohen_2.jpg

  15. #90
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    ^ Although. I have to admit that Sasha was the only lady who could do a fan spiral without looking like a you-know-what.

    http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...do8Lomw1WkAImb

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