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Thread: Can Sotnikova overcome the pressure?

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    Can Sotnikova overcome the pressure?

    Following on from today's performance at the Nebelhorn Trophy in which she fell on her 3Z (which was mean't to be part of a 3Zx3T combination) and singled out on a 3F, is it the case that Adelina Sotnikova simply cannot cope with the pressure of senior competition? Since the beginning of last season, when she started competing in senior competitions, she has made mistakes in practically every competition she has competed in (making mistakes on elements that she can normally perform extremely well). However, she had problems with injury last season which may have dented her confidence, and she is still only 16. Nevertheless, others that age have been able to cope with the pressure and even thrive on it. Baiul, Lipinski, and Hughes all won Olympic titles at that age, and Tuktamysheva won both of her first two senior Grand Prix events last season.

    Carolina Kostner had difficulty coping with pressure during the early part of her career, but ultimately learned how to overcome the problem. However, it took her a very long time. Hence, if the problem with Sotnikova is a temperament one, can she ultimately overcome it?

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    Nah, way too early to declare this and particularly in a 16-year old. To me it takes several senior seasons of evidence before declaring someone a head case or someone who continually crumbles under the pressure. To me, it just looks like her body has grown up and filled out, which takes some adjustments. Injury doesn't help. While she may not have won the gold medal every time out, that expectation shouldn't have been placed on her anyway. AFAIK, she hasn't had any major meltdowns or embarrassing placements yet at international competitions, has she? What's not to like? Might be worth pointing out that the majority of the other senior ladies last year, even veterans, were also not mistake-free.

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    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mao88 View Post
    Following on from today's performance at the Nebelhorn Trophy in which she fell on her 3Z (which was mean't to be part of a 3Zx3T combination) and singled out on a 3F, is it the case that Adelina Sotnikova simply cannot cope with the pressure of senior competition? Since the beginning of last season, when she started competing in senior competitions, she has made mistakes in practically every competition she has competed in (making mistakes on elements that she can normally perform extremely well). However, she had problems with injury last season which may have dented her confidence, and she is still only 16. Nevertheless, others that age have been able to cope with the pressure and even thrive on it. Baiul, Lipinski, and Hughes all won Olympic titles at that age, and Tuktamysheva won both of her first two senior Grand Prix events last season.

    Carolina Kostner had difficulty coping with pressure during the early part of her career, but ultimately learned how to overcome the problem. However, it took her a very long time. Hence, if the problem with Sotnikova is a temperament one, can she ultimately overcome it?
    Hmmm.....can we ask the samething about Mao Asada? She has struggled a bit lately and should we just blame it on nerves?

    What about Kanako After a terrific junior career and strong senior debut season was she as good under pressure last season? Can Kanako overcome it?

    Yuna was not at her best at 2010 and 2011 Worlds. Can Yuna overcome her nerves

    What about Miki? She has never skated her best at the Olympics? If Miki makes it back to the Olympics can she "overcome her nerves

    I have no idea how much Mao, Kanako, Yuna, Miki or Adelina are effected by nerves.

    Do you.....

    I agree with bigsis - think it is not just too early in Adelina's senior career - but also too early in the season to be so judgemental.
    Last edited by janetfan; 09-29-2012 at 10:21 AM.

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    the Golden Era sky_fly20's Avatar
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    we had this same thread about Adelina last season, right ?

    I love Adelina's skating, in fact one of my sentimental favorites but yes she needs to deal with pressure
    if not she could turn into a Carolina Kotner/Maria Butyrskaya, lovely skaters but crumbles under pressure and cant skate mostly 2 clean programs
    It took them a while before they could adjust and hold on to pressure

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    She has the talent and ability so you have to go to some other explanation for her performances. Nerves seems like a logical place to go. She may not just have the ability to go out and win but rather be a silver medalist or bronze medalist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    She has the talent and ability so you have to go to some other explanation for her performances. Nerves seems like a logical place to go. She may not just have the ability to go out and win but rather be a silver medalist or bronze medalist.
    How about the explanation that she has only been to a couple of senior events.

    Are the expectations so high for Adelina that nothing short of winning every event she enters will make a few of her fans happy?

    I can tell you now it won't happen. Mirai won this event last season with what looked like little more than a practice run through.

    But it proved nothing and Mirai did not have a strong season. Adelina is looking at a long season - with 2 GP's, possibly the GPF, Natls, and possibly Euros and Worlds. That is a long season for a 16 year old.

    I think it would be inexcusable to have Adelina peaking this early in the season for a senior B event.

    Most likely Adelina was sent here for some feedback on her programs to be better prepared for the more important events that follow.

    On another day she might have won this event by 10-15 points. But I don't see it as very important. Russian Natls will be the toughest it's been in years .

    Don't you think her team wants her peaking for that and not a senior B in late September?

    Where are Liza and Julia right now ? Having some "growing pains"? Most of the Russian babies are going to need time to adjust from little jumping beans to young women.

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    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsisjiejie
    Nah, way too early to declare this and particularly in a 16-year old. To me it takes several senior seasons of evidence before declaring someone a head case or someone who continually crumbles under the pressure. To me, it just looks like her body has grown up and filled out, which takes some adjustments. Injury doesn't help. While she may not have won the gold medal every time out, that expectation shouldn't have been placed on her anyway. AFAIK, she hasn't had any major meltdowns or embarrassing placements yet at international competitions, has she? What's not to like? Might be worth pointing out that the majority of the other senior ladies last year, even veterans, were also not mistake-free.
    Thanks for writing that - and every word is true, really. People could at least wait for more than 4 events before they jugde her whole senior career.

    And again, where are those huge expactations coming from? 15-year-olds coming into their first senior events winning everything completly dominantly aren't exactly the norm. Declaring a girl that dominated the junior scene for one year by winning everything - even every SP and every LP - someone who just "can't go out there and win gold medals" isn't even making any sense.

    For those other names mentioned - Hughes, Lipinski and Baiul wre under 6.0, and I don't really want to compare that. Naming Elizaveta as someone "who can overcome her nerves" is pretty irritating - while she did great at her first GPs, she messed up at the GPF, and couldn't get over her nerves at the possibly most important event of the season - Russian nationals. She had a worse result there than Adelina in any of her outings. And I wouldn't call Liza a headcase or whatever, she's young too, and mistakes like that are bount to happen. But her name appearing here is nothing but making things look different than they are.

    So sky_fly, gmyers, which skater are you actually satisfied with?

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    With the talent all those three young Russian girls have (Sotnikova, Tuktamysheva and Lipnitskaya), fans started to expect perfection from them. Sotnikova placed second and there are suddenly debates if she can overcome her nerves. But the bottom line is, no one has ever managed to deliver season after season, competition after competition, all clean programs. If you look at Yu-Na, who is also extremely talented, it took her several attempts to win the worlds. In fact, I honestly can't recall anyone who would win every competition they enter. So it is quite beyond me why do we expect it from those three girls? Adelina placed second. She did not mess up completely, she messed up about two jumps in FS and one jump in SP. Yes, she can do better, but was there anyone in the whole competition who went completely clean? I watched men and they were falling one after the other. It is beginning of the season, the programs are relatively new and the skaters are getting used to the programs.

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    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    I wonder if the better question here might be "Can Sotnikova Overcome her Choreography and Music Cuts"

    After watching again this morning I don' quite get how Kaetlyn won the LP by 5 points.

    They both had a fall and Adelina popped a jump. Was Adelina crucified for her bad lutz - maybe an edge deduction, a UR deduction and -3 for the fall?

    In most areas I find Adelina's skating better. Her spins look better, her steps look better, her SS and ice coverage looks better, her extensions and posture look better. OK, part of that can be a fan's perception.

    I like Adelina. I never saw Kaetlyn before so I had no preconceived notions about her skating. Actually I like her but she does not appeare to be as polished a skater as Adelina.

    Is this a case of Kaetlyn having better CoP choreo and picking up enough points there to beat Adelina by in the LP?

    Is it a matter of TR? Adelina's jumps look bigger, and have beautiful air position. I would thinkAdelina won the GOE battle for jumps and spins but am sure that is not the case.

    Maybe a few of the CoP experts can shed some light on this because I don't see where Kaetlyn was decisively better.

    To gkelly - I did try to look up the protocols but could only find the 2011 Nebelhorn results.

    I would like to see them with the hope of learning more about the scoring system but gave up after 10 searches failed to find them.

    Here are the LP's:

    Adelina: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsCU4PyKx8E

    Kaetlyn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duHhEVNQRWU

    When it comes to skating judges - never doubt the power of "Carmen"
    Last edited by janetfan; 09-30-2012 at 08:44 AM.

  10. #10
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    http://deu-event.de/results/Nebelhor..._FS_Scores.pdf

    And actually Adelina didn't get an edge call - one of the things I was really happy about!

    Edit:
    I didn't realize that before - Osmond got a Lv 4 on her steps! While I really thought that part of her programm was nice, I wouldn't have expected it to be Lv 4. The only thing that irks me a little is that the girls are tied in PCS. I'd have expected Adelina to win that.
    That said, Kaetlyn deserved to win the LP and overall no doubt. She looks like a powerful skater and great perfomer
    Last edited by Li'Kitsu; 09-30-2012 at 08:39 AM.

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    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu View Post
    http://deu-event.de/results/Nebelhor..._FS_Scores.pdf

    And actually Adelina didn't get an edge call - one of the things I was really happy about!
    Thanks for the link.

    The PCS are so close one might think it was the same skater going twice rather than two different skaters being judged.

    And yes, I am sure Adelina's team is happy about no edge call on the lutz as well.

    BTW, I wasn't questioning Kaetlyn's win - she skated very well. It was more about the margin in the LP.
    Last edited by janetfan; 09-30-2012 at 08:48 AM.

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    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    With the talent all those three young Russian girls have (Sotnikova, Tuktamysheva and Lipnitskaya), fans started to expect perfection from them. Sotnikova placed second and there are suddenly debates if she can overcome her nerves. But the bottom line is, no one has ever managed to deliver season after season, competition after competition, all clean programs. If you look at Yu-Na, who is also extremely talented, it took her several attempts to win the worlds. In fact, I honestly can't recall anyone who would win every competition they enter. So it is quite beyond me why do we expect it from those three girls? Adelina placed second. She did not mess up completely, she messed up about two jumps in FS and one jump in SP. Yes, she can do better, but was there anyone in the whole competition who went completely clean? I watched men and they were falling one after the other. It is beginning of the season, the programs are relatively new and the skaters are getting used to the programs.
    Mao won her first senior GPF. Yuna won her first senior GPF. In their final junior years they were both undefeated (Mao for the 04-05, Yuna during 05-06). Compared to those two, Adelina's performance at last year's senior GP circuit and Junior Worlds was pretty bad. (Though she did match them in going undefeated in her final junior year of 2010-2011.) It's the trend and continuation from last season that's worrying---not this one early-season competition that by itself could be dismissed as a fluke. There's nothing sudden about these growing doubts.

    She's held to a very high, if not unrealistic, standard because she was basically crowned the Sochi Olympic champion by many avid fans. But ice is slippery, as we always say, and even Adelina is not guaranteed the Sochi gold medal.

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    Osmond had 3 combinations in her FS and Sotnikova only 2; the opening lutz Adelina fell on was intended to be a 3z+3t. Adelina also popped a flip and that cost her at least 6 points.

    Both girls fell, but Adelina's was right at the start of her FS and it probably rattled her.

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    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Osmond had 3 combinations in her FS and Sotnikova only 2; the opening lutz Adelina fell on was intended to be a 3z+3t. Adelina also popped a flip and that cost her at least 6 points.

    Both girls fell, but Adelina's was right at the start of her FS and it probably rattled her.
    Thanks, that's pretty clear. Adelina lost the Gold by two points because she gave away too many potential points on the opening combo and then her flip.

    If she had completed either of them she would have won.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    Mao won her first senior GPF. Yuna won her first senior GPF. In their final junior years they were both undefeated (Mao for the 04-05, Yuna during 05-06). Compared to those two, Adelina's performance at last year's senior GP circuit and Junior Worlds was pretty bad. (Though she did match them in going undefeated in her final junior year of 2010-2011.) It's the trend and continuation from last season that's worrying---not this one early-season competition that by itself could be dismissed as a fluke. There's nothing sudden about these growing doubts.

    She's held to a very high, if not unrealistic, standard because she was basically crowned the Sochi Olympic champion by many avid fans. But ice is slippery, as we always say, and even Adelina is not guaranteed the Sochi gold medal.

    Adelina was in her last junior year also undefeated (2010-2011). You write that "compared to those two, Adelina's performance at last year's senior GP circuit and Junior Worlds was pretty bad." It wasn't pretty bad. She was 3rd and 3rd. As we saw with Mao and Yu-Na, they also made some mistakes in their first fully senior year. I agree that she is held to a very high, if not unrealistic, standard. But I don't think Adelina "was basically crowned the Sochi Olympic champion by many avid fans". No more than Gracie Gold.

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